AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 3

[Pensfan]

also from the link I just posted:
On Saturday morning, about an hour after the 6 year old's father called 911 to report his daughter missing, Emily Collins says Isabel's brother walked into a nearby store searching for his sister.

"He came in and he asked did you hear anything," Emily Collins, who works at the store, told ABC News. "'The little girl was last seen around 11 p.m. Friday, when she was put to bed,' he said. 'We were all sleeping and we didn't hear anything and the next thing you know she's gone.' He asked me once again, 'we were sleeping and we didn't hear anything and she's just kidnapped.'"

ABC News obtained a police questionnaire detectives used to interview neighbors, which asks whether they have surveillance cameras, heard dogs barking the night of the girl's disappearance, and know any of Celis's normal habits and routines.

bbm
An hour after the family awakens and can't find the little sister, they decide she was kidnapped? An hour? The young brother repeated the exact statement twice? (I'm now sitting on my hands and hoping this report is incorrect.)

 

[alwayslooking]

I am so sorry to hear about your husband, alwayslooking.

But didnt Kyron Horman's father also wait for over a week before he came out and spoke with the media?

This family has been displaced from their home since the very beginning and until last night they werent even able to go back to get a toothbrush or even the father's wallet.

Have LE said they want volunteers to search? Sometimes they dont. And there is a reward isnt there? I thought it was 6K but I may have my cases mixed up.

I do think they will eventually speakout and I dont judge them on why they havent done so before now..only they know the reasons. Maybe they have seen how it is for other family members of missing children who have spoken out in the past. The public and media tends to not be kind and supportive anymore when they do speak out.

I did read that the police is giving them protection and we dont know if someone has made contact with them that is threatening the rest of the family if they speakout.

We just dont know.

IMO

I am not judging them, I am only saying that just maybe a woman related to the kidnapper's heart would break if she had to watch the mother cry! We all know in the Missouri case it was the wife that contacted LE and said she thought her husband may have something to do with the missing little girl!

 

[tlcya]

If we follow Peter Hyatt's Statement Analysis tenet "if they do not say something, don't say it for them" then NEVER means that they do not expect her to be found EVER. They did not say we will not stop looking UNTIL SHE IS FOUND. They said "NEVER".

Not being contentious but simply using your post as a perfect illustration of a thought I entertained earlier today when discussion came about why the parents aren't more in the camera, why they are speaking more or appealing to the perps or whatever.

Other members pointed out that any statements made will simply be picked apart and examined under the microscope, etc.

your post regarding statement analysis just so perfectly illustrates those earlier posters' point.

I too tend to examine the words, and phrasing when people make statements. But I feel for parents of child victims. They are in a tough spot. They have watched recent cases in the news, they have seen parents picked apart and shredded by public opinion over every word, pause, expression etc.

Horrible position. To speak and be picked apart. To not and be uncaring heartless guilty of something people. lose lose.

 

[liltexans]

An hour after the family awakens and can't find the little sister, they decide she was kidnapped? An hour? (Now sitting on my hands.)

No. The dad called 911 about 10 or 15 mins after he discovered Isa was missing IIRC.

I think the article is saying Isa's brother was at the store letting people know about an hour later.

 

[tlcya]

An hour after the family awakens and can't find the little sister, they decide she was kidnapped? An hour? (I'm now sitting on my hands.)

an hour after the 911 call regarding her being missing her brother conversed with clerk at nearby business.

 

[Mjskit]

I have noticed that many WS members have been the victim of a voilent crime, or have lost a family member unexpectedly to violence or disappearance. I HOPE the number is not proportional to the general population, but OF THE WS MEMBERS WHO ACKNOWLEDGE CHILDHOOD ABUSE, almost all of them say it was a "friend of the family" or a relative. I think we do kids a disservice by stressing the "stranger danger" message. Why do we (as a society) still think children are most at risk from strangers? We need to teach kinds about the dangers posed by teachers, neighbors, babysitters, family members, and so on.

A very good point! A few weeks ago my 7 year old grandson who has no friends told me he could not make friends because he is not allowed to talk to strangers. I was shocked! Talking to strangers is not dangerous, going with them is. I taught all of my children and my grandchild this - If you are afraid, uncomfortable, or wary of a person then TELL. My children know it doesn't matter who be it family, neighbors, friends, strangers, doctors, or even police.

 

[cluciano63]

Am hoping LE can rule out some scenarios and some people very soon...if they cannot, it makes me think they do not have a real idea of what happened...and if that is the case, how on earth can they solve/find Isabel? I guess I am getting too cynical and pessimistic from similar cases, Lisa, Ayla, Aliayah...I never thought months and months would pass in those cases with no child, no suspects, no arrests...

 

[nursebeeme]

bbm
An hour after the family awakens and can't find the little sister, they decide she was kidnapped? An hour? The young brother repeated the exact statement twice? (I'm now sitting on my hands.)

I think right away the dad knew something was wrong (re: window and also re: Chief V will not confirm or deny there were signs of a struggle in the room)

Also: the immediacy with which he called 911 (discovered her missing at 8am and was dialing 911 by 0813 iirc)

:moo:

 

[Anita Richman]

I have noticed that many WS members have been the victim of a violent crime, or have lost a family member unexpectedly to violence or disappearance. I HOPE the number is not proportional to the general population, but OF THE WS MEMBERS WHO ACKNOWLEDGE CHILDHOOD ABUSE, almost all of them say it was a "friend of the family" or a relative. I think we do kids a disservice by stressing the "stranger danger" message. Why do we (as a society) still think children are most at risk from strangers? We need to teach kinds about the dangers posed by teachers, neighbors, babysitters, family members, and so on.

I agree! The book by Gavin DeBecker, "The Gift of Fear", was the best tool for me teaching my children the difference between "good strangers" and "bad strangers". It also helped give me the language to use when teaching my kiddos that even family members and "friends" can do bad things.

 

[Pensfan]

No. The dad called 911 about 10 or 15 mins after he discovered Isa was missing IIRC.

I think the article is saying Isa's brother was at the store letting people know about an hour later.

Sooooooo it was an hour and 10-15 minutes after the dad awakened and couldn't find Isabel that it was decided she must have been kidnapped? (This is not much better.)

 

[Thinkzerz]

an hour after the 911 call regarding her being missing her brother conversed with clerk at nearby business.

How old is the brother? I wouldn't be letting any of my kids out of my sight if i already had one missing.

 

[Anita Richman]

How old is the brother? I wouldn't be letting any of my kids out of my sight if i already had one missing.

He is 14.

 

[liltexans]

Sooooooo it was an hour and 10-15 minutes after the dad awakened and couldn't find Isabel that it was decided she must have been kidnapped? (This is not much better.)

No, the dad called 911 to report his daughter missing. I'm sure he checked the house and maybe outside first to see if she was there. He may have even knocked on the neighbors' doors. We don't know.

We haven't heard the 911 call, but it's possible he used the word "kidnapped" when he called 911. We don't know.

Isa's brother must have been going around the area relaying the information to people. Apparently he was in that particular store about an hour later telling the clerk.

 

[nursebeeme]

How old is the brother? I wouldn't be letting any of my kids out of my sight if i already had one missing.

one of the earlier articles talking about the schools they attended included one high school. Not sure which brother it was at the store though.

(the age of the oldest brother was reported as 14 so I am guessing a freshman?)

 

[mck16]

I think right away the dad knew something was wrong (re: window and also re: Chief V will not confirm or deny there were signs of a struggle in the room)

Also: the immediacy with which he called 911 (discovered her missing at 8am and was dialing 911 by 0813 iirc)

:moo:

Very true. And we also don't know what the boy was doing before getting to that particular store. He may have been searching other places and it just happened to be an hour when he got there. jmo

 

[Anita Richman]

Sooooooo it was an hour and 10-15 minutes after the dad awakened and couldn't find Isabel that it was decided she must have been kidnapped? (This is not much better.)

It was an hour and 15 minutes after they couldn't find her that THAT particular store clerk spoke with the boy. Who knows how many neighbors's doors he had already knocked on, how many other stores he had gone in already. There are at least 15 on the southwest corner of Craycroft/Broadway, and then going along Broadway a block from their home.

 

[katydid23]

Sooooooo it was an hour and 10-15 minutes after the dad awakened and couldn't find Isabel that it was decided she must have been kidnapped? (This is not much better.)

But IF her window and her blinds were wide open,and she was gone, then I can believe he thought she was kidnapped. Where would a 6 yr old go at 8am all alone?

 

[Pensfan]

How old is the brother? I wouldn't be letting any of my kids out of my sight if i already had one missing.

IMO, unless other children had been recently kidnapped in the neighborhood, most parents wouldn't decided that she was kidnapped an hour after she was discovered to be missing. Most would check the immediate neighborhood while calling her name, check all of her friends' residences/backyards, walk to local places that the family had frequented, call nearby relatives, check to see if her bike/big wheel/skates/skateboard were missing and etc..... BEFORE determining and telling her brothers that she was kidnapped.

 

[LisaB]

I am watching NG and notice the families trash can is the only one that has been tagged with spray paint can anyone tell me what it said?

When I bought my house, I also bought new trash cans and used "mailbox labels" to put our house number on them; cans and lids. Our trash is picked up in an alley and the lots are 16' wide, on both sides of the alley, so on a windy day they end up everywhere, so everyone labels their cans. In 2 years, between cars running them over and rats chewing them, I have bought 5 cans, of which one remains usable, and used up the numbers 4, 8, and 3 from my numeral sets.

I labeled our recycle bin by making BIG block numbers out of fluorescent duct tape (bin is black) after our first bin (a blue one, labelled with mailbox numbers and the word "RECYCLE") disappeared. I have noticed lots of people spray paint the numbers on their cans and bins. I may have to start doing that, but where I would use a STENCIL, most of the neighbors just "freehand" the numbers on in a really sloppy fashion. Maybe all that was "tagged" on the cans was their house number.

 

[mck16]

But IF her window and her blinds were wide open,and she was gone, then I can believe he thought she was kidnapped. Where would a 6 yr old go at 8am all alone?

Where did you get the info that he was 6 years old?

I think I misunderstood your post. You are referring to Isabell and I thought you were referring to her brother going to the store. Correct?? If so sorry.