Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[Quiche]

Is Kronk a witness for the State?

I have a little trepidation the DT may have made some sort of loose tie to Kronk via GA. I hope he doesn't go to the same gym, bowling alley, online gambling site, idk, I just can't fathom an accusation against him unless they have a tie. I suppose it could be he reads their meter, but...

The other thing so absurd, why on earth would George place Caylee in KC's trunk so she could drive around with her corpse for a week...? He wouldn't, period.

Baez said we would understand within the first minutes of his opening, and I do-- they are in deep doodoo. mo

 

[matou]

Hi darnudes! I've been watching the trial when I can and I am just a newbie to this case overall. I just thought of something that I'm not sure was brought up yet about the supposed drowning. George would have had to get Caylee's body from the bottom of the pool since she would have sunk to the bottom. Not sure how deep the pool is. When people drown they sink. Bodies only float after they have been dead for awhile. He would have had to get into the pool and gotten right in there, under the water to get her out, that's the only way. This ploy is bs. JMO

Hi, I see that everyone has already figured this out and I only read the opening post when I posted this. Good work everyone. Baez should have fact checked on this since he was saying that he would explain everything is his opening statement. Casey doesn't have a leg to stand on now. She should plead and end this. JMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

I'll tell you what bothers me about this. The only reason George has been thrown into the "drowning" story, is because it can be proven that he was in the house that day. No one can prove that Lee was in the house that day. If Lee were anywhere around, it would be he the DT is going after, not George. It is just a matter of convenience.

There is no excuse for what she did and I do believe that if she is "well" enough to do all the things she was doing, plus turn on and off for this jury, she certainly cannot make this sexual thing be any kind of excuse for her lies.

Lee on the other hand, well, this to me is very disturbing. No man in their right mind would tell an FBI agent that they would address an issue later if nothing ever happened.-Unless in fact it happened. And then he denied DNA to the FBI? Who does that? So what the results were that he was not Caylee's Father! He had reason to push the matter off, and not to give DNA, and either way, for the jury this could be a huge problem. They may understand that the only reason she is going after George is because he can be proven to be there, but they may feel sorry for her too.

Well after the revelation of the "big secret" we found that GA smacked ICA as a child, while disciplining her! I am sure the big secret about LA's "sexual abuse" will be that he pulled her shirt up to pizz her off, to embarrass her, or something similar, a Jackass type of thing, and ICA took that and manufactured a whole drama about it.
That's what she does..

 

[costalpilot]

As a former prosecutor who has tried many death penalty cases, you absolutely never know how a juror or jurors will look at the evidence based on their own life experiences. This is a very interesting case for seeking the death penalty. Normally, most domestic homicides are not prosecuted as death penalty cases. In most cases jurors do come to the truth. A guilty verdict does appear a likely outcome, however, I would be very surprised if the jury recommends death.

juror 3016 was the man who had formed the opinion that ica was guilty, but was against the death penalty, and despite HHJP's desperate attempt at rehabilitation, never said he could vote for it, only that he might be able to consider it.

given that this juror is on the panel, Casey Jordan, an IS TH, opined that both the dt and the SA have tacitly acknowledged a LWOP verdict is likely. (my words, but thats what she was driving at)

makes sense to me. this guy isn't going to be hard to win over to the reality that ICA did it,, but he is NOT going to vote for death.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Is Kronk a witness for the State?

I have a little trepidation the DT may have made some sort of loose tie to Kronk via GA. I hope he doesn't go to the same gym, bowling alley, online gambling site, idk, I just can't fathom an accusation against him unless they have a tie. I suppose it could be he reads their meter, but...

The other thing so absurd, why on earth would George place Caylee in KC's trunk so she could drive around with her corpse for a week...? He wouldn't, period.

Baez said we would understand within the first minutes of his opening, and I do-- they are in deep doodoo. mo

ValHall's summary of the Kronk connection is brilliant...
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/05/28/caylee-anthony-case-review-of-trial-week-1/

If I knew how to send it to the SA I would, it points out all the inconsistencies and demonstrates that JB is a comparable or worse liar than ICA.

 

[PaulaF513]

There is something else to consider in this case that is pretty unique...there is no cause or manner of death. All the defense needs to accomplish is plant a tiny seed of reasonable doubt in one juror. I have not obsessively followed this case as most here have done. I was aware of the basics and probably knew more than the jurors know going in and I am in no way convinced that ICA is guilty of murder. I also believe that GA did molest ICA based on a couple of things. First, I think ICA's behavior fits with Borderline Personality Disorder (promiscuity, shopping sprees, lying, manipulation, splitting, coming across as callous, inappropriate emotional reactions, etc) and the main common denominator between people with BPD is childhood trauma, often sexual trauma. Second, I felt that GA's testimony came across as being evasive and dishonest in many instances. He broke eye contact when asked about the sexual abuse, looked down, used the "I did not" instead of "I didn't" and he had small facial changes that indicate he was lying. He also tried to avoid answering a lot of direct questions by attempting to give long and involved explanations that came across as him trying to confuse and muddle up his answer so that he essentially didn't really answer at all. What I saw of CA's testimony came across to me as being genuine and honest.

I don't think they will get a murder conviction. I'm not sure if they've included manslaughter or something similar, which I think they would probably convict on. Without a cause of death or manner of death I don't think they will find her guilty of murder. I also can't help but wonder if the defense might have grounds for a mistrial. In what I've watched I have found the judge to appear very biased against the defense when it comes to questioning GA. He also allowed GA to ramble and ramble instead of just answering the direct question. I'm admittedly not sure of whether something like that would be grounds or not. I just thought it was very obvious that the judge was being a bit unfair in that respect.

You've raised some interesting points. While I certainly agree that KC displays a psychological disorder, I think that it would be incumbent upon her defense team to bring in an expert witness who had diagnosed her according to accredited guidelines. I'm guessing that she has had psych evaluations and I haven't yet heard anything about those results.

I honestly do not believe that her father sexually abused her. I can easily believe that GA has a temper and has disciplined both his children by smacking them. I think GA comes from a generation that does not view a well placed smack as child abuse. I can very easily imagine KC enraging her parents with her arrogance and lying, the latter most likely a lifelong habit.

Unlike you (and the jury), I have become accustomed to GA's demeanor and irritating habits while being questioned and interviewed about the case. He tends to ramble, hesitate and look down, seemingly searching introspectively for just the right words, which, btw, frequently are not quite right. I don't think he is a highly educated man with a broad language base on the tip of his tongue. I do think he is honest and very emotional and that he wants to be clear but NOT crucify his daughter despite what she has said about him. He appears to be mystified by her allegations and mortified by them, but he is still her father and in GA's world, fathers protect their kids. He is angry and openly hostile to Baez, which I perceive to be his shifting the blame for the outrageous allegations against him, from KC to her DT. So he's making them work hard for every tidbit of information.

My heart breaks for him and Cindy. My husband and I positively doted on all of our granddaughters. Thie first one was born while her parents were living with us, so we bonded deeply with her. Ironically, we wound up raising her when her parents divorced and she chose to live with us rather than either parent. Her younger sister also came with us, so I look at this case from Cindy's perspective as both a grandmom and a mother. These two people have been put through hell by someone they absolutely adored, who deprived them of the most precious gift they had ever received. And she aint't done torturing them yet.

I pray that the members of this jury can see what a monster KC Anthony truly is and vote to put her away forever. I also doubt they will have it in them to give her what she actually deserves for the death of that precious little girl.

 

[strawberry]

I tell you what, if this was the story ICA first presented JB with, he needs to be disbarred for not telling her people do not spend the rest of their fricken lives in jail when their child accidentally drowns...we need to let LE know what happened RIGHT NOW while cause of death can maybe still be determined. :wink:

 

[nephers]

I've been trying to look at this as a juror. Someone that knows very little to nothing about the case. Someone that is only looking at what is presented.... . In this case, it was presented that Caylee was missing for 31 days. During that time ICA carried on with her routine like nothing happened. Ica's car was found with the scent of human decompisition. The body was found within a mile of the residence with duct tape over her mouth. Those would be the things that stood out from the states opening statements.

Now on to JB. My father was a defense attorney, so I know it is JB's job to, well, defend his client. This is done by presenting a plausible altenative to the states explination causing reasonable doubt. He goes with the accidental drowning excuse. I would think that to be plausible. My biggest issue with that would be, why would it take 3 years for that to come out. Wouldn't ICA be screaming that for 3 years? So, the state would cover that in opening statement and try to debunk that theory. Ok, so JB says GA found Caylee, blamed ICA. That doesn't gel with me if it was truely an accident. I can see finger pointing once the shock has worn off but not in the seconds/minutes after the body is found. I would think panic would set in, 911 called, etc. GA was former LE. There is pretty much no way he would not call 911. Now enter abuse allegations. Ok, that could explain why ICA is such a good liar. But again, that doesn't gel with an accident. In the moments of shock that followed finding your dead granddaughter, I can't see GA thinking if ICA calls 911 his abuse would come out. It wouldn't come out in questioning over an accident. GA would know this given his background. Now enter the bizare explination of Kronk hiding the body. I've seen swiss cheese with less holes. The whole thing made no sense what-so-ever. (leaving my juror hat, I have DVR and actually rewound because I was sure I missed the segway of how Kronk was involved. Nope it jumped to him, was all over the place, and really made no sense). He then gets into the states evidence being flawed...blah, blah, blah. I really didn't hear much of that because I was still trying to wrap my brain around how Kronk fit in.

I really tried to hear the opening statements openly and objectively. Knowing nothing. If I was asked which way to vote right after opening, I would have to vote with the SA. Which is very hard for me to do. As I stated, my father was a defense attorney so I was pretty much taught to see both sides of the story and recognize reasonable doubt. JB threw out lots of "plausible" theories but ultimatly I know the truth is usually very simple. The more crazy theories that are thrown in, the more likely a person is lying. JB really should have gone simple on this one. It was an accident. ICA found Caylee, was afraid to admit it, and did everything she could in the next 31 days to try to seem like everything was normal. Call it PTS, ugly coping, panic, whatever you want but keep it simple.

All MOO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This may be a tad OT for this thread, but since it relates to Baez's total ineptness, I'm posting it here.

On Friday after a lengthy sidebar where they are debating whether or not the shopping videos should come into evidence, Baez renews his objections where he "requires a foundation", whereupon HHJP reacts in total and utter astonishment. After a long pause, HHJP responds, "YOU require a foundation?! ... Yeah... approach the sidebar". A moment worth watching again and again, BTW. :floorlaugh At @ 9:00 on the following:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048674/index.html

After yet another lengthy sidebar where I assume HHJP is schooling Baez - again, he returns to the podium to renew his objections and I firmly believe he commits a monumental Freudian slip. He says, "When I give Ms. Drane-Burdick my word, it is my word, and I do NOT INTEND TO HON... uh... revoking that in any way, shape or form.". At @ 1:05 here:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28048894/index.html

I'd bet my life the word underlined above was 'honor' but he caught himself just in time. What say you good folks?

BBM

Get the heck outta here! I never even caught that!

The look on HHJP's face...:lol:

 

[Quiche]

juror 3016 was the man who had formed the opinion that ica was guilty, but was against the death penalty, and despite HHJP's desperate attempt at rehabilitation, never said he could vote for it, only that he might be able to consider it.

given that this juror is on the panel, Casey Jordan, an IS TH, opined that both the dt and the SA have tacitly acknowledged a LWOP verdict is likely. (my words, but thats what she was driving at)

makes sense to me. this guy isn't going to be hard to win over to the reality that ICA did it,, but he is NOT going to vote for death.

He doesn't have to, they only need a simple majority for the DP-- shoot, five of them could vote against it. mo

I'm not crazy about the death penalty, but when I consider ICA I know that she should not be with other people in jail, she's a menace, a troublemaker/manipulator who would continue to use the same prowess that put her there in the first place. Nope, she needs to be stopped. mo

 

[ZsaZsa]

I tell you what, if this was the story ICA first presented JB with, he needs to be disbarred for not telling her people do not spend the rest of their fricken lives in jail when their child accidentally drowns...we need to let LE know what happened RIGHT NOW while cause of death can maybe still be determined. :wink:

Exactly. If she had claimed accident from day one she would have stood some chance of getting away with it. No Jury is going to believe that she stayed in jail for 3 years and has just (6 weeks ago) revealed that it was an accident...

 

[octobermoon]

When I heard the OS I was thinking Lenny P was his advisor :waitasec:

I thought the same thing and remember his nephew saying JB & LP had been talking awhile back. :banghead: All that was needed was the daisy chain. :crazy:

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Is Kronk a witness for the State?

I have a little trepidation the DT may have made some sort of loose tie to Kronk via GA. I hope he doesn't go to the same gym, bowling alley, online gambling site, idk, I just can't fathom an accusation against him unless they have a tie. I suppose it could be he reads their meter, but...

The other thing so absurd, why on earth would George place Caylee in KC's trunk so she could drive around with her corpse for a week...? He wouldn't, period.

Baez said we would understand within the first minutes of his opening, and I do-- they are in deep doodoo. mo

BBM

Don't give Baez any ideas or we might have to sit through weeks of testimony about how GA and RK were running some meter reading scam on the neighbors! :floorlaugh:

 

[Tuffy]

BBM
Hello and welcome. Thank you for your insight. I also do not believe the jury will recommend DP. It is my opinion the jury will struggle with reconciling who they see sitting across the courtroom vs the damning testimony and evidence. But after 8 to 10 weeks they will come to the truth. KC's story is really quite pedestrian, sadly. How many times have we seen it played out in the news? Young unwed mother, no HS diploma, no job & living with parents, immature with obvious mental issues, new exciting boyfriend....would anyone have any trouble believing the mother did it if KC was unattractive and black or hispanic? <MOO>

Hi mobius! If the trial were in Texas, maybe. Don't forget Darlie Routier got the death penalty here for killing her children. She is neither black, nor hispanic. Attractiveness is subjective. lol

I think Casey getting the Death Penalty is a good possibility considering the brutality and heinousness of the crime. That combined with her lack of remorse, and she's toast.

 

[Tuffy]

Exactly. If she had claimed accident from day one she would have stood some chance of getting away with it. No Jury is going to believe that she stayed in jail for 3 years and has just (6 weeks ago) revealed that it was an accident...

I think that even Casey thought trying to claim that an accident happened on day one, was too far a stretch. She tried every other angle, and now, I don't know...I guess this is just another story to throw out there and see what happens. They've got nothing.

 

[Quiche]

BBM

Don't give Baez any ideas or we might have to sit through weeks of testimony about how GA and RK were running some meter reading scam on the neighbors! :floorlaugh:

Heck, I've never even seen my meter reader, the dogs bark, then it's over. Too crazy, JB!! :loser:

 

[IRule254]

Have you felt an acutal child in distress? It's horrible, and unforgettable. I cried all the way to the hospital with the paramedic constantly asking me if I was ok, I couldn't stop crying. And all he had was a febrile seizure, but the blue lips, the seizures, and I didn't call 911 right away, I talked to him, I told him you can't do this, I need you, you aren't supposed to do this...and then I called 911. You know what they did to help me...they said we're coming and hung up. 2 seconds...they spent that long getting my address...and that's it.

Last year my three year old was run over by a car. I did not cry once but I sure as hell screamed at the top of my lungs every.single second. until the ambulance arrived. Probably not the best move, I know, but I had zero control over myself at that moment.

ICA must be a stronger person than me, I mean she went right on to posting pics on Facebook..:steamed:

 

[KMouse]

George would have been soaking wet after jumping in the pool to pull Caylee out.

The drowning scenario as a whole makes no sense whatsoever. The man calls the police over stolen gas cans but we are to believe that he wouldnèt call 911 for his beloved Caylee drowned in the pool. Baez presented a scenario where if Caylee indeed go into the pool she would not have been there long. Therefore the jury is supposed to believe that a man who is ex LE did not perform CPR at all, did not call 911, assumed Caylee was dead and for some unexplained reason George decided the best course of action is to hide Caylee somewhere so Cindy wouldn't find out because she would be mad at Casey?

Seriously? How could anybody believe that? It is an insult to the jury intelligence.

 

[sleutherontheside]

BBM

Get the heck outta here! I never even caught that!

The look on HHJP's face...:lol:

This one???? Hilarious!!!

 

[hotmomma35]

He actually said , casey went out the front and george went out the back.....