Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[Trapshooter]

I just have a real problem with anyone who thinks they smell human decomposition and fails to call the police. IF there was human decomp in that vehicle, the police needed to be called. Later in this case, we will find that the police did not secure the pontiac for nearly 18 hours after they first arrived. Which again makes me question the validity of the smell in the trunk being human decomp.

As for GA on the stand, I agree that he has been through Hades these past three years, and that JB is certainly trying to irritate him on the stand, but to me he does seem evasive and combative so we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

I think RK found the body when nature called and he entered the woods on August 11th. He tried to get his friends to see it, then called the cops 3 times.
When he had an officer standing only a couple feet away from the bag, the officer claimed he couldn't see anything. RK knew the remains were in the bag, but got upset with the officer because the officer couldn't see it. Later that evening after the officers had left, he came back and picked up the bag so no one else could find it and collect the reward. Why, who knows, but that would be how he could have claimed possession of the body.

As with most things in this case, the search itself was controversial.

Since the police didn't secure the Pontiac for several hours, how do you explain the outrageous levels of chloroform found by Dr. Vass? Are you going to say that is "junk science" too?

I still do NOT understand how RK obtained possession of the body in the first place? Where did he get the body? Do you seriously think that GA & ICA hid the body in the woods? :banghead::banghead: I really think JB's theory about RK is totally way, way, WAY out there!

 

[Trapshooter]

You still have a chance to listen!! Tonight's show has been archived.

Hi RR0004!!! :seeya:

I'm just now listening to the radio show! I heart Richard Hornsby! :innocent:
If I ever need an attorney, I want AZlawyer or Richard Hornsby! Wonder if they practice in Virginia? :waitasec:

Came back to add that Richard has a very nice voice! I would much rather listen to Richard anyday than to listen to CM chewing cotton!

 

[LancelotLink]

Yes, I have read his interview, and watched his testimony this week. The odor in the trunk has been the object of many a heated arguements in some of these threads.

I do not think SB is a bad guy, or sinister in any way. I just think that he assumed after seeing the garbage bag in the trunk that the odor was from garbage since there were no bodies in the trunk. And yes I know he said the garbage bag was very light and he threw it over the fence with his left arm and he is right handed.

No. No. I didn't mean you thought he was left handed, right handed or sinister..nice try though. I was talking about the smell being minimal at first. Now, once the car was opened and the smell was overpowering, I too after looking in the car would think, whatever this is it is in the trunk.
Not finding a body but finding a bag of garbage would make me relieved beyond belief. And the interview with SB clearly shows that he was still a bit concerned, but after seeing the trunk was clear, he let it go. He is a tow yard guy, not a detective.

The funny thing is JB asking George about driving the car off the tow lot, knowing he was taking away evidence of a homicide.

 

[DairyGirl]

He saw them twice. He claims the first time they came into his computer store on June 9th. The second time he claims he saw them at the Casselberry Walmart on June 16th at 4:00 p.m. This Walmart is close to Tony's apartment and was found to have automatic doors in the front but it had a door that could be pushed on the side of the entrance. Many felt the door would be to difficult for small Caylee to push. I don't want to make this thread about James Thompson but he is on the State's witness list. If they choose to present him he would debunk the 11:00 a.m. drowning time that Baez put forth in his opening statement. The problem with Mr. Thompson's claim is that he waited a whole year to come forth.

Since this was the first time I have heard this story I did some looking and from what I can see this is unverified. The fact is there isn't a Walmart in the country that doesn't have dozens of surveillance cameras everywhere. I am positive that if they were there it would have been recorded. And with Caylee's face being plastered all over Orlando a month later other people would have come forward and said they had seen her, too. Plus, since Casey didn't have any money and even if she did she seemed to like using other people's money more, there would be some kind of debit card or check evidence, too. My verdict, maybe well meaning but totally wrong.

 

[Stella5]

I've been watching. He has his head so far up Baez's back side it's disgusting. He mentioned something about a rotting chicken in the trunk of the car. What?! Where did he pull that little piece of misinformation from.

Up next... what he calls the prosecutions 'slutification' of ICA.

:banghead:

Forgive me if this has been answered, but Geraldo (aka Baez's sidekick or vice versa) was in the court room when the tow yard guy (names & initals are escaping me after pain killers & a glass of wine) testified that the trash bag did not weigh as much as 1/2 of a chicken. Like Baez, Geraldo is hearing only what he wants to hear.

As for the slutification of ICA... well, yeah... whatever... many pictures are worth millions of words

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

You still have a chance to listen!! Tonight's show has been archived.

Where? I would like to listen to it.

 

[DairyGirl]

I just spent the last two hours immersed in this thread, and so appreciate all of the discussion from my fellow WS'rs.

Am I correct in believing that the OS from JB stated that they both went out the front door together, ICA going to the left and GA going to the right (where there is a gate that is impossible to enter because a shed was placed right there at the entrance to prevent entry from that side)?

IF the front door had a triple lock and was closed and locked, wouldn't the prudent assumption be that Caylee could not have gotten out that way and they would run to the other points of exit?

I am the mother of an autistic child who is a "runner". Believe me, this light of my life LOOKS for ways to get out because to him, wandering is a compulsion.

FROM EXPERIENCE, (I would bet my life that plenty of WS members can bak me up on this one), if your small child was in your home and then you suddenly realize they are missing, you DO NOT look under beds, you MAY run and open closets eventually (especially if they are in the potty-training mode, mine would like to hide and "do the deed" in their training pants while in their closet sometimes), but the FIRST thing ANY parent, caretaker, grandparent does is look to the entry and exit points of their house: IE the DOORS.

You run to the doors and VERY quickly surmise which is unlocked and which is locked. You run to the front door, triple locked. Not an exit point. You run to the back doors and quickly determine which one is unlocked or locked. I would venture to say that many young 2-3 year olds would not care to close the door, or close it fully. But this is speculation.

Really, which doors were locked, which were open? Did JB ever point out which were unlocked? This is the exit point (should his argument be believed). Caylee didn't open a door and it locked itself back again from the inside.

IIRC, he didn't mention an unlocked door at all, but rather a flustered GA and ICA playing "who's on first" running around the house, checking under beds, looking in closets, behind toasters, you get the idea.

Then they run to the triple locked FRONT DOOR, and open all of the locks (they were locked, weren't they? Did JB say they were all unlocked?) and GA runs to the small patch of yard and to the gate blocked by the shed to get to the back? WHY?

If your home is secure and the FRONT DOOR, most obvious point of escape for a toddler, is closed and TRIPLE LOCKED, you immediately head to the back to check those doors and only THEN, when you are sure all doors are locked from the inside, do you make the time-consuming house sweep.

I spent the day with my sister's three year old daughter. She is a gorgeous, small little thing, about 40 pounds. SOOOO tiny and delicate compared to my 3 boys that age, and OH so attached to her mother and father. Even if CA was wrong about the weight of Caylee, there is NO way that little girl woke up, opened and closed the doors (which locked behind her) and hoisted herself into that pool. This was a precocious, very verbal little young girl who was absolutely doted on by her grandparents. When I watched my niece today, such a little chatterbox to her mother but was also quite shy and used to being "babied" with the pool and the water and eating and everything else, I cannot imagine a self-sufficient hardy Caylee who did this all on her own without waking GA or ICA or letting GA know that she was going to go potty or that it was time for their breakfast.

This last question stands: Did JB question GA about finding doors unlocked on the initial runthrough of the house before the timely, detailed sweep? If not, the DT theory holds NO weight with me.

I just want to add that any parent with a small child and a pool would, immediately upon thinking the child was missing would first look in the pool. My thinking would be if they were in the pool the sooner found the better the chance to revive them and if they aren't in the pool, well then my worst case scenario wouldn't be true and I would be a little more calm.

 

[PaperDoll]

When Casey was being "interviewed" by the police when they were at Universal Studios where the police were calling her on her lies, I thought she had said the last time she saw Caylee was on the 9th, then you have George seeing her the last time on the 16th, so, who is correct? or, is this simply a date mix up ... :crazy:

 

[Trapshooter]

Where? I would like to listen to it.

Here's the link thedeviledadvocate...

http://www.latalkradio.com/Tricia.php

It is the May 29th show! I'm listening now!!!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

The osteological findings creates a problem for the claim that Kronk took and hoarded the body. Sadly, Caylee's body was torn apart by scavengers early on and found in sections dispersed among the swamp area. How did Kronk accomplish this?

That will be a problem for the defense. If you ask me, do I think RK moved the remains and kept them, then placed them back in the area later, I would say probably not. Still, with all the turmoil created around RK, and the defense not be allowed to observe during the retrieval of the remains, I do think it is possible that he did. Should the defense go all the way down this road, for their sake, I hope they have an explaination for the osteological findings.

 

[katydid23]

I just have a real problem with anyone who thinks they smell human decomposition and fails to call the police. IF there was human decomp in that vehicle, the police needed to be called. Later in this case, we will find that the police did not secure the pontiac for nearly 18 hours after they first arrived. Which again makes me question the validity of the smell in the trunk being human decomp.

As for GA on the stand, I agree that he has been through Hades these past three years, and that JB is certainly trying to irritate him on the stand, but to me he does seem evasive and combative so we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

I think RK found the body when nature called and he entered the woods on August 11th. He tried to get his friends to see it, then called the cops 3 times.
When he had an officer standing only a couple feet away from the bag, the officer claimed he couldn't see anything. RK knew the remains were in the bag, but got upset with the officer because the officer couldn't see it. Later that evening after the officers had left, he came back and picked up the bag so no one else could find it and collect the reward. Why, who knows, but that would be how he could have claimed possession of the body.

As with most things in this case, the search itself was controversial.

So, a man find the remains of a dead child, a child that everyone in Florida is looking for, and he TAKES THE DEAD BODY WITH HIM? Would you take a dead body into your possession if you were innocent of any crime?
I find that very hard to believe.

ETA: Besides, your explanation does NOTHING for the defense. If the body was already there in August, who put it there? It does not really matter what happened to it after that initial dumping.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Here's the link thedeviledadvocate...

http://www.latalkradio.com/Tricia.php

It is the May 29th show! I'm listening now!!!

Thank you very much

 

[DairyGirl]

They should be held accountable for what they did to thwart the investigation. Their hands are not clean.
But I would hate to see them go down for something they did not do. Have no problem with them going down for what they did do, and there is plenty.
I just have a real problem with their attempts at obstruction of justice being used to clear their daughter of murder.

To be fair, they never thought they were trying to clear their daughter of murder. They thought they were clearing their daughter of being accused of a crime they were certain she didn't commit.
There is a difference between knowing someone did something wrong and trying to protect them from the consequences of their actions and believing that they didn't do something wrong and trying to convince people of their innocence. Not saying they were right but I am just trying to look at it from their perspective.

 

[Harmony 2]

Since this was the first time I have heard this story I did some looking and from what I can see this is unverified. The fact is there isn't a Walmart in the country that doesn't have dozens of surveillance cameras everywhere. I am positive that if they were there it would have been recorded. And with Caylee's face being plastered all over Orlando a month later other people would have come forward and said they had seen her, too. Plus, since Casey didn't have any money and even if she did she seemed to like using other people's money more, there would be some kind of debit card or check evidence, too. My verdict, maybe well meaning but totally wrong.

It was not discovered that Caylee was missing until 31 days later. By then the surveillance videos may have been recorded over. Even though he was on the state witness list, last time I checked, the state may choose not to present his claims in court. I did not follow the investigation into his claims after the original interviews with him were in the media. He may have been totally debunked by the state's investigators.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Did the defendant in that case come with a set of circumstantial 'baggage' similar to Casey's? I think the Prosecution team, any one of them, would LOVE the chance to cross examine her.

Originally posted by Purple Iris All during jury selection, they made it a heavy point to hammer home the fact that their client does not have to testify, and if she should decide not to, they cannot hold it against her.

They drilled that well dry repeatedly; over and over with each one that made it that far. Going as far as asking each one if they could put that aside and not hold it against her. And, just for good measure, slamming it down their throats one more time as they approached home plate before being accepted.

Re-quote of original post attached. The text I bolded is mostly what I was referring to. I think the DT has to ask multiple times and inform PJs they cannot hold it against their client should they choose not to testify.

The only similarity between the two cases is they were both for first degree murder.

 

[Stella5]

When Casey was being "interviewed" by the police when they were at Universal Studios where the police were calling her on her lies, I thought she had said the last time she saw Caylee was on the 9th, then you have George seeing her the last time on the 16th, so, who is correct? or, is this simply a date mix up ... :crazy:

The 9th was the original date reported by ICA, and all... until the video & pictures of precious Caylee were discovered by LE.

 

[LancelotLink]

the deviladvocat-
What do you think was Casey's involvement in the death of Caylee as opposed to the statements made by JB?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Since the police didn't secure the Pontiac for several hours, how do you explain the outrageous levels of chloroform found by Dr. Vass? Are you going to say that is "junk science" too?

I still do NOT understand how RK obtained possession of the body in the first place? Where did he get the body? Do you seriously think that GA & ICA hid the body in the woods? :banghead::banghead: I really think JB's theory about RK is totally way, way, WAY out there!

Personally I think the outrageous levels of chloroform is due to an equipment malfunction.

If ICA didn't place the body in the woods, and GA didn't place the body in the woods then who did?

 

[Stella5]

Since this was the first time I have heard this story I did some looking and from what I can see this is unverified. The fact is there isn't a Walmart in the country that doesn't have dozens of surveillance cameras everywhere. I am positive that if they were there it would have been recorded. And with Caylee's face being plastered all over Orlando a month later other people would have come forward and said they had seen her, too. Plus, since Casey didn't have any money and even if she did she seemed to like using other people's money more, there would be some kind of debit card or check evidence, too. My verdict, maybe well meaning but totally wrong.

The problem with him though is he waited an entire YEAR before coming forward. I can tell you from experience, that this case was ALL over the Orlando news from the get go. I'm from St. Louis, and was in Orlando on a layover in July after this popped and it was non-stop! Why did he wait an entire year? IMO he's hinky! I call bs on him, he never saw them... even though if he did it would help the state.

 

[otto]

When Casey was being "interviewed" by the police when they were at Universal Studios where the police were calling her on her lies, I thought she had said the last time she saw Caylee was on the 9th, then you have George seeing her the last time on the 16th, so, who is correct? or, is this simply a date mix up ... :crazy:

Cindy first made a mistake about the last day that she saw Caylee, and I think that Cindy and Casey matched dates before the police arrived. There is something fishy about Cindy and Casey making the same mistake about the dates.