Baez - Just Lost The Trial

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Also, another question to ponder. Wouldn't the DT's "theory" make more sense if GA wasn't there? I could see it happening (for the sake of argument) when ICA was there alone - then she panics to hide the tragedy from CA and GA...but if GA was there, and CA was going to find out anyway...why hide the body? What would the point be of NOT calling 9-11??


Remember in his OS, Baez said George yelled at Casey, "Look what you've done! Your mother will never forgive you!!" Baez is going to say that they were both so terrified at Cindy's wrath they couldn't bring themselves to tell her Caylee had drowned.

I remember that when we first learned that the dogs hit on a spot close to Caylee's sandbox, everybody speculated that the baby had drowned in the pool and Casey had put her body under the sandbox or in the playhouse until she could figure out what to do. Cindy made some statements that George had cut his hand and bled on that spot, and that's what the dogs had smelled. Some cadaver dogs do hit on blood rather than decomposition.

Not saying I believe the drowning theory, at least not the way Baez put it out there, but there has to be a reason that the dogs hit on that spot in the yard. Also Cindy mentioned at work that someone had swam in the pool because she found the ladder still up and she always took it off, they were obsessive about that.
 
Sorry if this has been stated before.
What I find incredible along with a lot of what others have posted is the statement:

"Look what you`ve done! Your mother will never forgive you, and you will go to jail for child neglect for the rest of your frickin` life!"

Firstly if ICA was sleeping and GA was watching Caylee, why would he blame ICA? Even if he did, not for one second would she accept that, she would argue with him that he was in charge.
Second, why would either one of them really care if CA would ever forgive her. They have pulled an enormous amount of carp on CA and she (CA) always found a way to forgive both of them.
Third, GA is former LE and knows full well that if this was an accident, ICA would not go to jail for the rest of her frickin' life. I believe she would know that too.

That statement is just too incredible for me to believe and does not give me any reason why they would cover that up. I agree with other posters that they would have left that house screaming Caylee's name and when found they both would have been screaming and completely freaking out. GA would have attempted CPR as they did not know how long she'd been in there and there was hope, there is always hope.


I do find that to be another bizzare statement Casey has made.
She may have thought that is what may happen, but did it happen?
Only in her sick mind..
 
In Baez's zest to NOT let the State have the reports of the psych drs who examined KC, he will lose the case. Of course, he knew he would lose, but the deal was to take GA down with them. This is a very spiteful act.

Not for one moment if kc was molested would she keep quiet..ever! She would have torn into him and filed charges ASAP. She wanted her mother all to herself. I expect her mother comforted her and tolerated her behavior. I am sure George never did and she hated him for it.

Not a child of 8 years old, or even 13, Whisp. Young girls often do not tell anybody for years, and some even put it out of their minds completely, for various reasons. Or if and when they decide to tell, they tell their moms and very often the moms do not believe them. In fact, that's true in more cases than not, that the mother refuses to believe or accept that the man they love could molest their daughter.
 
I think JB left it open, thinking the jury would come to the conclusion that George must have killed caylee, and purposefully saying "we're not saying he killed her" (but draw your own conclusions). what a pathetic, unbelievable, and evil defense. JMO.
 
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IMO. Yeah, you're right, he's not a very good actor or script writer.

Did you know that acting coaches give workshops for attorneys?

JB had best forgo the acting classes and work on his ability to question a witness, lay a foundation, cross examine a person, object and on and on. His lack of ability in the courtroom is evident by the number of sidebars where the judge has to school him. It appears that ICA will be able to appeal any sentence based on ineffective council and we are only a week into the trial.

It is shocking how poor JB's cross exams are - frankly I wonder how the other attorneys (CM) can sit there and be part of this.
 
Sexual abuse is a crime why hasn't ICA and her attorney asked for charges against GA and have him arrested?

They don't want the truth, they didn't want it to come out 3 years ago and they don't want GA to have due process now.
 
Do they have a tub?
I heard Cindy mention a shower that Caylee had after getting out of the pool when
Casey was waiting at the foot of the ladder when Cindy removed Caylee's bathing suit in the pool as usual, since Caylee liked doing that.[ewish]
this hit me that Caylee wanted to stay in the pool longer right?And Casey wanted to get in also that day.
But Cindy said Caylee had had enough and it was getting cool.
Was this Father's Day?
or the next day/
sorry I may be confusing the days?Someone please post events as they happened.thanks

This was Father's Day. Wouldn't Caylee have fallen asleep more easily if she was in the pool for awhile? I was thinking KC may have placed tape on her to keep her quiet so she could talk to TL that night but maybe not.I think I was wrong.


I never heard of showering a 2 yr old...unless they were using those hand held ones. I also think it had to be cindy that bathed her. According to the records, there wasn't enough time for kc to do it. She was too busy with TL. They spent almost 12 hours continually talking and texting.
 
Most avid readers will say that they can identify an author by his style...without even knowing his name. I know I can.

Each author has a unique and compelling style.

As an author of lies, Casey Anthony has a unique and compelling style too. It’s easily recognizable. Casey has a “talent” for long, intricate, involved lies. Her lies have great scope and minutiae,woven together at the same time. She deals freely in fantasy with little care as to how she might have to one day...reconcile fantasy with reality. There is a recklessness to her lies that have a true unmistakeable boldness.

That’s her “style of composition.”

That too will be part of her downfall.

One huge flaw in Baez’s OS is that George, ex-LE, (had he been in charge of the cover-up of Caylee’s death) would never have allowed Casey to proceed with a complicated, fantastical story that involved a fake Nanny, that she met through a Fake Friend at a Fake Job. George would know instinctively to keep the cover-up real...and keep it simple. Only Casey could be the author of the Zanny chronicles. It’s her “style” to tell fantastical lies of great detail.

Secondly, George, as ex-LE, would have had 31 whole days to depose of little Caylee. Florida is a paradise of isolated swamps, alligator-infested lakes, and...surrounded by a big deep ocean. In those thirty one days...he could have “gone fishing”...or just for a long drive...NO ONE knew Caylee was dead....and accomplished a very competent disappearance. Casey could have been instructed to say Caylee wandered off at a mall in Jacksonville..at the Park where she worked...one of those typical sad stories we hear every day. No ex-LE would have put that Baby right down the street...and no doting Grandfather would deface her remains with duct tape...pushed into garbage bags.

George, for all his faults, is a meticulous guy. If he were running the cover-up, it would have been very neat and meticulous. He and Cindy have had careers in jobs that call for regimentation. Cindy, the nurse, would be programmed to put the pool ladder in the same place every time.

There is nothing neat, meticulous, or regimented in the style of this crime.

Once again, Baez’s story of this crime is illogical and by it’s style...clearly identifies its “author” as Casey.

To repeat...Casey had her “talent” for long, intricate, involved lies. Her lies have great scope and minutiae, at the same time. She deals freely in fantasy with little care as to how she might have to one day...merge fantasy with reality. That’s her “style of composition.”

All the prosecution needs to do in closing is take all those long involved lies being testified to by Cindy, by other boyfriends, by other friends... and compare them to the Masterworks of the Zanny story AND the Baez Opening Statement.

Baez OS is complicated...fantastical...unconcerned with merging details... as it weaves from sexual abuse by George, sexual abuse by Lee, Cindy’s carelessness...into the neighborhood Meter-Reader somehow becoming a greedy co-conspirator.

Would Cindy, whose own family writes how she is so manipulated, so insanely protective of her daughter...have enabled a sex-abusing husband? Would that daughter, who even saw Dad kicked out at one point...not have told her?

Again, would George, ex-LE confide the biggest and most dangerous secret of his lifetime in a neighborhood meter-reader... no one has yet proved he even knows? Would the greedy Meter Reader let the body lay around for months and maybe lose his pay-day?

No.

It’s clear that the author of Baez Opening Statement...of the Zanny Chronicles...of the Fake Job Novelette, the Fake Friends with Fake Children Essays...all those great, fantastical works of fiction...is but one person: the one and only...Casey Anthony.
 
Welcome to WS!

What do you think the chances are of the defense putting KC on the stand?
I can't imagine the DT wanting to put KC on the stand. If the DT can elicit testimony through prosecution witnesses that it was possible that Caylee could have drowned, I don't see her taking the stand. However, since the defense was so specific as to how Caylee died, and if the DT feels their accident theory is not being advanced, they may decide to put her on.
 
As a former prosecutor who has tried many death penalty cases, you absolutely never know how a juror or jurors will look at the evidence based on their own life experiences. This is a very interesting case for seeking the death penalty. Normally, most domestic homicides are not prosecuted as death penalty cases. In most cases jurors do come to the truth. A guilty verdict does appear a likely outcome, however, I would be very surprised if the jury recommends death.

I've said many times that, as a websleuther who hasn't followed this case as closely as others here, I think I might bring a different perspective to this trial, as much of the information I'm now receiving is new to me...as it is to many members of this jury.

From where I'm sitting, right here and now, it looks incredibly bad for ICA. IF the DT can make a strong argument that Caylee died by accident, and ICA merely covered it up, I think that could influence some members of the jury. So far, I see absolutely no indication that the DT is going to be able to do that. JMO. I think unless this case takes a dramatic turn, this jury is going to find ICA quilty. As for the sentencing phase...if I were on this jury, the state would have to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is a case of premeditated murder before I could vote for the death penalty. Before everyone throws tomatoes at me, let me explain why I feel that way. This was a 22 year old woman at the time of Caylee's death. The ME has been unable to determine cause of death. That leaves many likely scenario's in my mind, and I doubt the state will be able to definitely prove any one of them. (I'm still waiting to hear the forensic evidence...especially wrt the duct tape before I state that with certainty. The duct tape matters a GREAT DEAL to me). We have an obviously mentally unbalanced girl here...by ICA's own admission, if we are to believe what she told AZ prior to Caylee having gone missing. Could ICA have simply snapped? I don't know...we'll have to see how it plays out in court. But if I were on this jury, and I was left with any question about whether or not a very young mother could have emotionally snapped and killed her daughter, I don't know that I could justify a recommendation for the death penalty. LWOP, absolutely. Death penalty? That would be hard for me.

All just MOO, of course.

Also, let me just add this: as someone who is hearing all of this from the perspective of a fresh juror, this nonsense about sexual abuse causing ICA to disassociate from her emotions about Caylee's "accidental death" (she seems perfectly capable of showing emotion when her own *advertiser censored* is on the line), this nonsense that GA helped cover up the accident, and the hide and seek game RK was supposed to have played in this scenario...that just buries ICA even deeper, imo. And I don't believe there is one single member of this jury that is going to buy into that load of BS. Again...JMO.
 
There is something else to consider in this case that is pretty unique...there is no cause or manner of death. All the defense needs to accomplish is plant a tiny seed of reasonable doubt in one juror. I have not obsessively followed this case as most here have done. I was aware of the basics and probably knew more than the jurors know going in and I am in no way convinced that ICA is guilty of murder. I also believe that GA did molest ICA based on a couple of things. First, I think ICA's behavior fits with Borderline Personality Disorder (promiscuity, shopping sprees, lying, manipulation, splitting, coming across as callous, inappropriate emotional reactions, etc) and the main common denominator between people with BPD is childhood trauma, often sexual trauma. Second, I felt that GA's testimony came across as being evasive and dishonest in many instances. He broke eye contact when asked about the sexual abuse, looked down, used the "I did not" instead of "I didn't" and he had small facial changes that indicate he was lying. He also tried to avoid answering a lot of direct questions by attempting to give long and involved explanations that came across as him trying to confuse and muddle up his answer so that he essentially didn't really answer at all. What I saw of CA's testimony came across to me as being genuine and honest.

I don't think they will get a murder conviction. I'm not sure if they've included manslaughter or something similar, which I think they would probably convict on. Without a cause of death or manner of death I don't think they will find her guilty of murder. I also can't help but wonder if the defense might have grounds for a mistrial. In what I've watched I have found the judge to appear very biased against the defense when it comes to questioning GA. He also allowed GA to ramble and ramble instead of just answering the direct question. I'm admittedly not sure of whether something like that would be grounds or not. I just thought it was very obvious that the judge was being a bit unfair in that respect.

I totally agree with your whole post. Were you reading my mind? LOL.
 
BBM.
I think BAEZ just put the FINAL NAIL in KC's coffin w/this BS story and after today, Cindy buried it!! Big mistake on their part coming up w/this new and improved version of blaming George and thinking Cindy was gonna go along w/it....looks like KC just slapped Cindy right out of that denial she's been in for 3 years....way to go KC! :great:
It appears the defense is trying to show that GA went to work after picking up the car from the tow yard in light of it smelling like a decomposing body, therefore he would be able to go to work after finding Caylee's body in the pool. Seems very implausible but DT doesn't have much to work with.
 
Well, we will wait and see if Baez adds to his opening statements and offers any proof - now that should be interesting! :)
 
Those houses are very close together. I find it hard to believe no one heard anything either.

Personally, I thought Baez lost the trial with the stupid Roy Kronk story.

Where does he tie in Roy Kronk with the bunch of baloney???? He totally confused me on that tangent, and how it even relates to the death of Caylee Marie.....:waitasec:
 
Not to mention what he said about Lee

How he was taking into his father's footsteps, although it didn't go that far..
He says

"It got so bad that the FBI tested his DNA to see if he was Caylee's father"

Now, how the hell does it not go as far as George, but far enough that the FBI tests Lee's DNA, which suggests a hell of a lot more than what they were saying about George?

And when did Lee ever deny the allegations, and say that when the time is right he would talk about it?

snipped by me...

See the FBI Agent Nick Savage depo - here is the link, see page 35

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94377&page=15l

:beersign: How did I miss this? OMG, this could be a huge problem.
 
I too wonder if there was some sexual abuse by GA, I noticed a lot of eye movement when asked those questions as well.....wish I could easily find that video to go back and look again. I do agree that CA testimony was very truthful, the first time I have actually believed everything she said. If only they would have done that from "Day One", much of this banter could have been avoided. just sayin'
 
Well, we will wait and see if Baez adds to his opening statements and offers any proof - now that should be interesting! :)

I honestly don't see how he's going to accomplish that. If he had gone with the theory that Caylee accidentally drown and ICA freaked out and tried to hide the fact, I think he might have stood a slim chance. But JB was also forced with having to explain how ICA could go off and party like it's 1999 after her daughter drowns. Even if the DT could prove to me that ICA was molested...it wouldn't matter a bit in terms of how I view her behavior after the death of her daughter. Then we get to the part of the story where GA finds Caylee and helps ICA cover it up. I'm not buying that for one minute. There was a dead body in the trunk of ICA's car...the forensics are going to show that beyond a shadow of a doubt, imo. Is the DT going to try to argue that GA, a former detective, instructs ICA to stash the body in the trunk of her car and drive around with it until everybody and their brother notice the stench? Please. Then we come to the duct tape. How does THAT come to be over the nose and mouth of a drowned child? GA, former detective, decides it's a great idea to take duct tape from his own house, and put it over the nose and mouth of a dead child? For what purpose? And then we come to RK. Someone who knows neither ICA nor GA. He finds the body, takes the body and stashes it who knows where for several months, tampers with the body, then returns it to the place he found it? For money? Seriously?! WTH?! I mean, I could go on and on and on.

This entire theory, laid out, looks like it was written by a 3rd grader.
 
Yeah, that's not good......not good at all. Savage thought the allegations might be true.
 
Just wondering what I would do as a defense attorney for a client who almost 100%
of people think is guilty. Fish or cut bait? Muddy the water? Present a theory that probably can't be proven? Just play the cross examination game, present a defense
case, get famous from tv exposure, and make tons of money later from other clients?

Don't know what I'd do - that's why I'm not a defense attorney. And hopefully never a client.
 
Yeah, that's not good......not good at all. Savage thought the allegations might be true.

Even if it IS true and even if the DT can prove that it's true...does anyone REALLY believe this is going to make the jury look at her behavior after Caylee's death and go, "Oh, well...NOW I understand why she was watching movies and competing in Hot Body contests after her daughter drown. The girl was molested for pete's sake!"

Uh uh...not gonna happen. And JB better not count on there being SA survivors on the jury who will automatically sympathize either. I'm a survivor, and I say it's hogwash.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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