Blog Question from WFTV

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Let me add also - in 2006 we were in Sanibel Island on vacation. We went for a walk to the lighthouse through a wooded area on a boardwalk. As we were walking we came upon a horrible smell - it was so bad (a lot like the garbage) We assumed some animal died there. Later that day on the news they said a woman's body (Stacie Davis) found in the area where we were walking. The day before we walked the same area and smelled nothing, the next day it was terrible. I cannot remember how long the body was there - maybe a 4 days? Anyway, horrible smell - have not smelled a decomposing body again. The garbage in my trunk was pretty bad too. I say Casey is a genius in trying to cover up the smell.
 
This is brilliant! I do have a few questions/comments:

[snip]
June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

This makes sense, but why did Tony change his story on the stand? He told the Prosecution that she said it had broken down and her dad would take care of it, but under JB's questioning he changed it to be that she said that it was out of gas (which makes no sense regarding him "looking at it" for her, or their not simply getting gas from the gas station right there). Why did he change that?

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

What made her change her plan of calling Amy? If she already set up the alibi regarding the smell, why not go ahead and call Amy for help before trying someone else? And why wait an extra day to get her help?

And what was the plan for throwing Jesse under the bus? How would she implicate him?

[snip]What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

Plus, how would it help to take it to Tony's? She would still have the trouble with the smell to explain. If she could use the "dead animal" cover with Amy, why didn't she just use that with Tony to begin with? Too strong a smell, so he wouldn't have bought it? Too risky if he didn't, since she wanted to hold onto him, whereas she could let Amy go as a friend, if necessary?
 
The bag of trash found in Casey Anthony's trunk contained paper towels with decomp on them, as well as maggots.

<<snipped>>

What were those maggots feasting on? :waitasec:

Does anyone know if the maggots were saved and tested??
 
JMO...I think ICA buried that precious child in the backyard when she borrowed the shovel. Within a few days something spooked her enough to rethink that idea so she went back, dug up the baby(already in plastic bags), put her in the laundry bag (with the handles, remember?). She didn't count on how heavy the bags were going to be after several days of decomp.

So she puts the laundry container into the trunk of the car...drives down the road and parks as close to the wooded area as she can. She opens the trunk and tries to lift the plastic bags out of the laundry container but as she's doing that, the plastic bag catches on something sharp and decomp fluid spills out. It gets on her slacks so she quickly shoves the bundle back into the laundry container and lifts it by the handles and deposits it in the woods.

When she comes back to the car she tries to clean up but the fluid has already soaked into the trunk liner. Realizing that she can't sit in the car with her slacks on, she removes them and puts them in the back.

I don't think the smell was as bad as it later became so she thought she could really clean it up and get the smell out.
:twocents:She didn't count on Caylee not going away!
 
Just a note, I cannot imagine ICA leaving Caylee at the house overnight if ICA was out at Blockbuster or wherever. Since she presumably has never killed anyone before, and since she was apparently too panicked to call 911, I cannot reconcile that with her just putting her in the sandbox or wherever and leaving for the night. What if GA had to mow the lawn? She would have been busted for sure. I think she would have only felt comfortable being in control of the body.

It makes sense to me that she would have done all the bagging and taping right then and there so as to not have to face what she did one second longer. Then I think she tossed her in the trunk and went to Blockbuster. :sick:

I believe the body would have started to smell within 24 hours, but I think the mechanics of odor are that it must be able to "waft" in order to be detected. The scientists who have bottled the air from her car have not been smelling them through the bottles since they received them. Only upon opening them did they smell the smell. I think as long as she stayed airtight there would not be a smell.

However, I think if she moved her a little, maybe thinking she would bury her or dump her :( I think the bags would probably have torn. Once the smell could "waft" she would have become concerned, and I think that time of air contact is going to be when the air sample guys are going to say the 2.6 days began if they get a chance to.

I like JWG's theory :seeya: about not wanting to take her own car to get Tony, that makes a lot of sense, as well as her potential plan for JG. But I still think she did not dump Caylee until the close call with GA on the 24th. And since I don't think she removed her carefully but rather in an angry rush, I think the smell got worse day by day after that time.

I also think she did hope the car would be towed, even if someone figured it out - the car was out of her hands. I am sure Zanny could easily have picked Caylee up in the Sunfire vs. met her at the stairs in Sawgrass depending on the turn of events.
 
Maybe our time lines are all wrong.....

Maybe Casey didn't move the body til around the time/day that she ran out of gas?

She attempts to move the body on the day she ran out of gas... (lord knows how many times she moved it) and since the body was at such a stage of decomp, it was leaking fluids and it leaked all over the trunk. So, she decides to ditch the car at Amscot and knew she wouldn't be going back for it because it got decomp fluid all over the trunk.

THAT could be why it only started to smell AFTER it was at the tow yard.
 
THIS!

Thanks for sharing...great possible timeline. I believe this is very possible.

Eta: oops, this was supposed to be in response to JWG' s timeline post...damn tapatalk! :)

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk
 
OK now it has been forever since I read this and I will need to go through the documents again but IIRC there was talk when the doc dump for the remains came out that the two garbage bags inside the laundry bag had been sealed... the discussion was, mothers tend to bag their children up "womb-like". I personally think she wanted to make it look like a bag of laundry in the trunk (with no fingers or hair poking out) should anyone feel like taking a peek and she couldn't knock them down on the way to the trunk.

Of course the bags were eventually shredded open but I definitely remember discussing them being sealed - maybe someone knows what I am talking about? In any case, I have wondered since then how long the triple bagging would contain the smell. My dad and I were discussing the other day, if something rots in a Tupperware, you can't smell it until you break that seal. If those bags were sealed tightly - like tied not with the plastic drawstrings but the bags themselves knotted, would that not have contained the smell for several days? I am thinking the smell (and the 2.6 days of decomp the air sample shows) started when one of the bags tore and fluid leaked out. Up until that point I would think it would contain the smell within the trunk fairly well.

Telling on myself a little, I once lived in an apartment where the garbage dumpster was at the front of the complex and I lived on the hill in the back. When I emptied my cat litter I always triple bagged it in those little thin bathroom garbage bags and set it by the door until the next time I left, and on more than one occasion I drove past the dumpster and forgot to deposit the litter. I know I left it in my trunk in the heat for more than a couple of days and I would only "remember" it when I saw it, never once from the smell. I have been blessed not to have smelled human decomp, but it is hard to imagine it is a stronger odor than a bag of cat urine (although I understand it is a worse odor), and triple bagging it held that smell perfectly well for me numerous times.

Just guessing here, but whatever fluids that 'leaked' before Caylee was placed in the bags, could have been been covered up with the bagged remains enough to keep the smell contained underneath until she eventually disposed of them. If forensics indicate that the remains were in the trunk for 2.4 days, that just means how long they were in there 'uncovered', it doesn't determine the total amount of time she could have been in there. So the remains could have been in the trunk bagged and then when they were placed in the wooded area, the area in trunk would have been fully exposed to the heat in the trunk and the odor would have become more apparent over time?
 
So it was mainly packing materials and a huge bag of food left overs.
 
It could possibly be that there was meat in your garbage. Rotting meat (or the juices from it) would be the same thing as other rotting flesh.


:twocents: While a close relationship regarding odor does exists between these two items, the actual mechanism of decomposition within the human body is NOT the same as rotting meat. The decomposition process within the human body involves both a bacterial, viral and enzymatic reactions that occur in aerobic, microaerophilic and anaerobic conditions.
Even the description of the odors that Cindy described regarding the treatment of patients with wounds are again CLOSE TO but not the SAME AS the decomposition odor which is as everybody seems to agree, UNIQUE.:seeya:
 
The issue is the scientific measurement of decomposition in the trunk. If it wasn't Caylee, then who was it? The shape of the stain is the next issue. The third issue is Casey avoiding transport in the Sunfire after a certain date and mooching vehicles from others. Why?

Ive wondered about the car, too. When TL came why didnt he bring her gas? There wasnt anything wrong with the car, her Dad had to put gas in it. Did TL offer to help her get gas to put in it rather than just leave it there? I do think she told him it was "broke down" so maybe he didnt think it was out of gas?
So many ???????
Why abandon the car? To make it seem shadier?
As far as the smell she had mentioned to certain people that she thought she had a dead squirrel under it so think that was to cover up in case anyone asked why it smelled...plus put the bag of garbage back there, too
Anyone who lives in FL would know a bag of garbage in a trunk in the heat, humidity down here will SMELL BAD.
 
I posted a theory on KC and the evolving trunk smell here
back in May, 2009. I thought it might be useful to bring forward.
BTW, I believe Caylee was dumped on Suburban Dr. on the 20th.

I thought it would be good to put WAISI's observation and Bond's added detail in some timeline perspective.

June 20 - The smell of decomp might have been noticeable to a small degree in the trunk, which may have prompted KC to attempt to clean the trunk when she backed into the garage at her parents that day. It is likely the smell had not yet become noticeable in the passenger compartment, and the reasons why will become apparent below.

June 21 and June 22 - Based on pings, it appears KC never left Tony's and therefore would not have noticed any change in the smell of the car, because she did not use the car.

June 23 - TL was near the front passenger side of the Pontiac as KC poured gas into the car. KC was between him and the trunk. When KC opened the trunk to put the cans away TL turned to go shut the tailgate on his Jeep, walking away from the car. TL notes that KC made no attempt to keep him from the trunk, the only odd thing being (in his mind) that she wanted to pour the gas herself.

The fact that she let him near the car leads me to believe no smell had yet permeated the passenger compartment. Also, it seems likely that KC opened the trunk for the very first time since June 20 when she put the gas cans away, likely receiving a hefty waft of decomp in the process. :yuck: KC dodged a bullet because Tony had begun to walk away and was "shielded" by gasoline fumes between him and the trunk. :whistle:

June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

I think WAISI's initial observation that KC had to ditch the car somewhere due to the smell so that she did not have to use it to take AL to the airport still holds. To me, she begins formulating the plan the afternoon of the 24th or sometime on the 25th. :idea:

Knowing she only had a couple gallons of gas in the tank, she was pretty confident :snooty: she would run out by the evening of the 29th, thus avoiding using the car the morning of the 30th. After running out she would need to get the car back after taking Tony to the airport.

I don't think KC had things completely worked out in her mind, but it seems her first instinct was to enlist Amy's help to get gas for the car. This meant she had to explain the smell in advance so as not to surprise Amy :eek: when they both showed up to put gas in the car, thus prompting two advance calls and text.

June 25 - Either on this day or possibly the 24th (while driving away from the 'rents after racing George to the trunk) KC tells Amy about a horrible smell in the car during a phone conversation. She blames it on her dad, who she claims ran over something and it got stuck to the car. She said the smell was coming from the engine, so clearly by this time it has entered the passenger compartment.

June 26 - In a second phone conversation, KC tells Amy the smell has gotten much worse. :sick:

June 27 - In a text to Amy while driving north from the 'rents to TL's - before ditching the car at Amscot - KC tells Amy "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." KC then texts Amy about running out of gas a few minutes later.

Of course she told Tony a different story - that the car had broken down and she contacted her dad, who would take care of it. Nevertheless, her plan is off to a great start. :woohoo:

June 28 - Sometime on Saturday KC realizes she has a real problem with the smell in the car, and formulates a plan to throw Jesse under the bus. Her first attempt is to call him around 1:30 PM and ask him if she can borrow his gas can. He is on the other side of town, however, and declines. :banghead:

June 29 - Knowing she has to get the car she reverts to the original plan and enlists Amy's help. She texts Amy on Sunday and asks if she can borrow her gas cans, but Amy reminds her they are in storage. Seems nothing is going her way. :banghead:

June 30 - Not to be denied, KC shows up at Amy's and they go to Target around noon to get a gas can (with Amy's money, of course :thumb:). After Amy leaves for work KC drives to the Amscot to put gas in the car, but sees it is missing. :banghead:

What puzzles me is what her plan was if the car was still there there. Leave Tony's jeep and take the Pontiac back to Tony's? The distance between the two is only 2.8 miles, so KC could have jogged or walked it, I suppose.

I am not convinced that KC breathed a sigh of relief when she saw the car was missing. She had to realize someone else had it and would eventually figure out what was causing the smell. I think this is what prompted her to make a second attempt at throwing Jesse under the bus.

July 1 - In the morning, KC leaves Andy F.'s and drives back to TL's apartment, where she stays for about 15 minutes - probably picking up some clothing. Then she calls Jesse and asks if she can take a shower at his place because she does not have a key to Tony's. :liar: Lot's of driving around for someone who can't afford gas, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what her plan was, but it clearly started with seduction - leaving the bathroom door partly opened while she showered. Perhaps she was planning to steal something of value and place it at the crime scene after she'd finished bedding him, as has been speculated by many on this board. But Jesse did not fall for it, and luckily his roommate showed up soon after.

It is possible she actually did take something and plant it at the scene. KC pinged in an area consistent with the crime scene on two occasions during the evening of July 1: 7:15PM and 8:30 PM. In both cases she was there long enough to plant evidence. If she did plant something, whatever it was deteriorated by Dec. 11. :doh:

Great theory here, but how did Casey get the body out of the car at the tow lot and dispose of it on Suburban? She couldn't have used her own car...

Nevermind, I read you think she disposed the body on the 20th. Why the 20th??
 
This was on the WFTV Blog:

You can't ignore the fact that throughout June all the witnesses say there was no smell to the car, Tony L said June 23, she opened the car trunk with me standing there and there was no smell, George A said June 24, she opened the trunk to give me the cans and there was no smell, another friend from the Sutton Place apartment said there was no smell in the car when she was in the car, even the tow truck driver said there was no smell at the time the car was towed. It was a few days after sitting at the tow yard that a slight smell is noticed, then strong smell 2 weeks later. They open the trunk, it's discovered that there was a bag of household garbage in the trunk, that Casey had forgotten to throw in the dumpster on her way out of Sutton Place apartments on June 27.....the prosecution's whole theory was that decomp started in the trunk on June 16

How do you all explain this?

http://my.wftv.com/_CAYLEE/blog/88992/6696.html

The odor probably got worse over time the longer it sat in the blazing hot summer sun.

In the beginning, the smell was probably minimal, maybe somewhat noticeable in the trunk when it was opened, but not reeking throughout the car. As time went on, the sun beat down, and the rotting odor became more intense because even though the child was no longer in there, the fluid residue was, thus the increasing odor.

Just for the record, people keep saying Casey/George may have put the duct tape over her nose and mouth trying to prevent decomp seepage, or when seepage began, Casey put the duct tape to keep it inside. First, can you imagine her doing that? With stuff coming out? No. Secondly, George would know decomp fluids don't just come from the nose and mouth, but from every body cavity including from every pore. It seeps out through the body like sweat. Duct tape would do no good. Maybe Caylee wasn't bagged right away but just thrown into the trunk. That seepage through every pore and opening could have begun to ooze into the trunk's carpet or if she were bagged, the bag probably wasn't sealed and the oozing dripped out. Wasn't she in a cloth laundry bag first, then the two plastic bags were to the outside? That would have made it easier for her to put a gooey laundry bag into the plastic ones when the decomp liquids appeared.

My point is, the oozing into the carpet couldn't be removed and the longer it remained in the sun, the more horrific the smell became, thus she dumped the car at Amscot and never looked back. It sat at the tow yard in the hot sun getting stinkier and stinkier. The locked car masked the worst of it, but after it was opened, the stench came flowing out like the release of heat waves on a hot summer day. Anyone who likes in a hot climate should know what I'm talking about.

Why didn't Tony notice the smell when she ran out of gas? Could be because the smell of gasoline was more powerful. The car wasn't opened, the decomp smell was probably not horrible at the time, but the odor of gasoline was more pungent and lingering from pouring it into the tank even with the trunk opened for a few seconds to place the gas cans inside.
 
Great theory here, but how did Casey get the body out of the car at the tow lot and dispose of it on Suburban? She couldn't have used her own car...

Nevermind, I read you think she disposed the body on the 20th. Why the 20th??

A lot of reasons, but perhaps the biggest is that was the last day she backed into the garage. To me, the only reason for Casey to back into the garage was to prevent anyone seeing what was in the trunk, or more specifically, to prevent anyone seeing her handle the body. She let Tony near the trunk on the 23rd because, IMO, there was no body in the trunk and she was not yet aware the trunk had a horrible smell.
 
June 24 - Now KC knows she has a problem with the odor in her trunk. This is why she blows past dad when he wants to get the tool from her trunk - she cannot let him smell it. GA does get close to the car, but never got to the rear of the vehicle before KC shoved the gas cans into his hands. Given the trunk was opened just briefly before George got there and the car was parked outside, there was ample time for what little odor escaped to dissipate enough so as not to register to GA. KC dodges another. :yow:

Hi there. Long time no see.

There is going to be a significant exchange of air between the inside of the trunk cavity and the outside atmosphere when the trunk lid is lifted and then again when it is shut. This is because the lid acts like a big wing or hand fan.

During the lift, a vacuum will be created behind the lid (the underside) drawing out air from inside the trunk. During the shut, air will be pushed in front of it (the underside) causing some air inside the trunk to "squish" out with a puff.
 
A lot of reasons, but perhaps the biggest is that was the last day she backed into the garage. To me, the only reason for Casey to back into the garage was to prevent anyone seeing what was in the trunk, or more specifically, to prevent anyone seeing her handle the body. She let Tony near the trunk on the 23rd because, IMO, there was no body in the trunk and she was not yet aware the trunk had a horrible smell.

I like your theory....

would she have had enough time to walk to the swamp, dig and dispose of Caylee, walk back and hose off the shovel and return it?
 

I don't think there's any evidence that Caylee's body bag (the canvas laundry bag) was ever buried. It may have been intentionally placed in standing water... completely or partially submerged.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
113
Guests online
1,639
Total visitors
1,752

Forum statistics

Threads
605,534
Messages
18,188,387
Members
233,424
Latest member
aat84
Back
Top