Bloodstains on Darin's jeans

[Jeana (DP)]

Perhaps it is just my own thinking, but it seems to me that the appearance in the room of the crime was one of chaos.

There was soooooo much choas in fact that only one single wine glass was broken. Its pretty obvious that the murderer cared more for her possessions than she did for her children.

 

[Desilu]

Whilst digging around the internet looking for information, I came across an intriguing timeline. I believe this poster is from here also, and this timeline has probably been shared before, but I found it interesting. I have condensed some of it, and clarified, for myself, other portions. It can be found in its entirety here http://on.starblvd.net/meet/Current_Events_and_News/savannah:archives/

Routier Crime Timeline
Author: JonGalt 4/12/02

0151: Darlie stabs Damon in her first attack. During this attack, she stabs herself in her own right arm. She stabs Damon with wound one and two.

0155: Darlie stabs Devon who has woken up during his brother's attack. He is stabbed the first time, stabber's face to his front. Wound #1 is the first one delivered. Wound #2 is delivered as Devon is face up on the carpet, most likely dying, with the attacker at his head, mostly likely on the knees, stabbing downward and across the torso. NOTE: This is the only wound in which the stabbing is reversed. It is also delivered prior to his actual death.

0156: Devon is dead.

0157: Darlie paces and thinks how to handle the situation. She paces from Devon to the front door. She decided to 'clean up' what evidence she can. She goes to the kitchen.

0205: Darlie begins wetting towels to wash areas of the couch and sink. The towels are half dry, and half wet ... the dry part being used to wipe away any leftover water smears. She leaves the towels in various areas of the living room as she realizes she continues to bleed and cannot clean more than flat surfaces.

0210: Darlie sits on the trunk by the front door, removes the socks and puts on Darin's high top sneakers. She sprints out the front door and drops the sock 75 yards away and returns to the house where she slips out of the laced up sneakers.

0212: She enters the kitchen and rinses the knife and tries to cut her own throat, but stops due to the pain. She rinses out the sink basin. She only uses one side of the sink, as the baby bottle is still upright.

0222: Darlie tips the coffee table and deposits a fairly large amount of blood there. She grabs the bread knife.

0225: Darlie enters the utility room to get the towel she uses for her own wounds. She is dropping blood freely in the utility room.

0227: She holds/wraps towels to her wounds as she cuts the garage screen and leaves a small amount of blood in the garage.

0230: She notices Damon has crawled from where she first stabbed him and is moving towards the door. (During this time he has tried to stand by using a glass top table leaving his print in Darlie's blood). She is winded and wounded, but she reaches him, lays down the knife in order to get a hold of him with both hands. She picks the knife up again and delivers hesitation wounds, one and two. She also delivers wound #4. She then switches hands and delivers wound #3.

0231: She lays down the knife on the counter & smashes wine glass. She calls 911. Darin comes downstairs.

0235: Officer enters home.

 

[cami]

Hello j2mirish, can you say what it is that makes you believe that would be the case?
I did not percieve that the amnesia was under the conscious control. There are many cases of children harmed by the parent who just forget it happen because they can not tolerate the memory.
This is just a subject that I find difficult to decide what I think because it is complicated.

I don't think Darlie had TA anymore than I do. She's using it as an excuse not to have to explain incriminating evidence.

 

[cami]

Whew glad to hear I would not be yelled at. Sure takes a twist off my mind. I do admit this is a strange case. Darlie appears to be guilty on many levels but my gut says Darin is behind this. Now if it was a case that Darlie and Darin planned this togeather and both did the deed then I would believe that but for Darin to come down stairs and see Darlie responsible for it all and then help her cover I just can't buy it. Darin would of been in a state of shock to think to help Darlie to cover it up, let alone his love for the boys it should of been murder in his bones to find Darlie had done this, nope does not make since. . When I listen to the 911 tape it sends chills through me and a mother out of her mind. As far as Darlie knowing what really happened that night IF she did not do it. I don't believe she does or did at the time BECAUSE, of the horror of it.
Darin needs to be investigated a whole lot more, Ins fraud seeking help. What was really going on back then as far as Darlie and Darin marriage. Did he want out?? Ins money certaintly was not a motive, not enough of it. Did he want his freedom and just one child??? Maybe Darin is innocent, but maybe not maybe, he thought Darlie was dead only to late to realize she was not. Darlie certaintly has her faults but did she do it??? I just don't know, I never have been completely convinced she did. BUT, if she did not and through the years she has recalled things that she did not remember or too traumatic that her mind could not remember, then by all means she needs to have a new trial and I think the truth should come out if infact she did not do this. To die on death row when innocent would be very unjust. Did Darin hire someone?? I think maybe more should of been investigated back then. Maybe a new trial would bring out much more.
I am always sleuthing but don't post much but I will try to post more.

How do you explain away the incriminating evidence of Darlie's involvement in the murders?

Do you think that Darin was never investigated? Why? WE know there was no insurance fraud. That was a ploy cooked up six years after the crime to try and get her a new trial.

 

[SnootyVixen]

I still think they were in it together. Even if Darin is only in it to the extent of covering it up...he still is guilty as heck in my book! I wish they would investigate enough to get him also.

I seem to recollect that at the end of the trial the prosecutors did say that they believed that Darin was also guilty but had no proof. Does anyone else recall hearing this?

 

[SnootyVixen]

How do you explain away the incriminating evidence of Darlie's involvement in the murders?

Do you think that Darin was never investigated? Why? WE know there was no insurance fraud. That was a ploy cooked up six years after the crime to try and get her a new trial.

But you do see, do you not, that we actually do not know that the insurance fraud was a ploy. Perhaps that is your choice to believe but the matter was presented that it actually happened. For myself I have not found anything said that would convice me that it was a ploy. I am aware of the fact that many say they believe this but I do not have an idea where they get the proof to believe this. I can not find it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I seem to recollect that at the end of the trial the prosecutors did say that they believed that Darin was also guilty but had no proof. Does anyone else recall hearing this?

No, they never said that. They said they had questions about it, but there wasn't enough evidence for it to go anywhere.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

But you do see, do you not, that we actually do not know that the insurance fraud was a ploy. Perhaps that is your choice to believe but the matter was presented that it actually happened. For myself I have not found anything said that would convice me that it was a ploy. I am aware of the fact that many say they believe this but I do not have an idea where they get the proof to believe this. I can not find it.

It wouldn't matter now anyway. The statute of limitations has passed.

 

[cami]

But you do see, do you not, that we actually do not know that the insurance fraud was a ploy. Perhaps that is your choice to believe but the matter was presented that it actually happened. For myself I have not found anything said that would convice me that it was a ploy. I am aware of the fact that many say they believe this but I do not have an idea where they get the proof to believe this. I can not find it.

Oh come on, Snooty. Two years after the crime, Mr. Kee, suddenly remembers that Darin confided in him that he had been shopping his home in an insurance scam. Maybe Mr. Kee had TA.

****sarcasm off****

 

[Desilu]

But you do see, do you not, that we actually do not know that the insurance fraud was a ploy.

Because if he was indeed planning an insurance scam, why in the world would he arrange it to happen when the entire family was there? Why not when he knew the boys and Darlie would be out? And robbers just don't come in and decide to massacre an entire family just for fun. If they came in to rob they did a piss poor job, and couldn't even be bothered to reach for the jewelry that was in plain sight or Darlie's purse.

And certainly if the insurance scam had happened that would be the FIRST thing Darin said, "Oh my god the people I hired to steal my belongings butchered my family". Certainly he would know what night they would come since he arranged it.

 

[SnootyVixen]

.....Darlie remembered she was fighting with the guy. She tells the 911 operator that she woke up and she was fighting. If she had traumatic amnesia, she would not remember that because she says the first thing she remembers is seeing the man walk away from where she slept. She has always said in every other statement that she has no memory of fighting with him.




Also, she changed the position of the intruder several times in her early statements. One time he is at her feet, another time he is all the way across the room, another time he is at her throat, another time she can feel his weight on top of her. All police detectives will tell you that is the one thing that victims never change....where the attacker was they first saw him.


I am not aware of this information being from the police. I do believe that when a person suffers a terrible trauma of whatever the cause, the memory of it is not ever clear and concise. I do not find it in me to fault Darlie on this material you have presented. I do not think it is material to the case. In the case of myself Darlie is granted the permission to have memory loss and come back in bits and peices because just for me I consider this to be normal.

That is not a result of amnesia. It is more likely a guilty person's attempt to make her story match what she thinks the evidence is or to increase the drama to gain more sympathy from people. It is definitely not something you expect to hear from a grieving mother.

This is something that you have decide to believe. You alone know the reason you decide this. But I think that you could possibluy be wrong. I don't think you or I know what is expected from a grieving mother.

Traumatic amnesia purely from emotional trauma is very rare and usually doesn't last longer than 6 months. I think if you research it further you will find that what you describe is more often found in children and is very rare in adults. And since Darlie was hypnotized successfully a couple of years ago, if nothing else would give her back her memory that certainly would unless she is purposely blocking it out.




I did a time ago research it very thoroughly and am aware that all articles found do not say the same thing about this subject. However I think that there are some things that can be learned from the research. While it may be true that such a thing is rare that alone does not preclude it being present in the case of Darlie.
Recovery of these lost memory is often done during the process of hypnosis. I do not find it unusual that she would remember more in that state.
But a thing to be remember by all of us is that we all may have these instances in our own lives. For one example I can only offer an automobile accident in which the memory of the loss of control and the spinning around is there, but there is no memory at all of the crash or the immediate afterwards. The memory begins again when I remember a person reaching into the motorcar and turning off the motor then pulling me from the car. I remember everything after that. Well now I think this is not truth. I can sort of remember being in the hospital for treatment but not too much. I could not tell you just what they do to me or describe what the hospital people look like. I remember that it was a male who took me from the crash but I do not remember anything about how he look. I can not describe him to you. Many years have passed and the memory of the crash and what happen to me during the crash have never returned. Is this traumatic amnesia? Maybe but I don't know for sure. I did not injure my head in the crash.
But from my own research I believe such a thing is a real thing. I don't know whether or not Darlie has it but maybe she could. She as much as anyone else could have it, no?


I don't believe she ever did suffer from TA. I think that is something her atty came up with to explain why she didn't wake up when the kids were butchered right next to her.

This is your belief. But I don't think that your belief can be not challenged. What reasons do you have for not believing her. My recolling of the trial is that it was not her attorney who say she have it but it was the psychiatrist that examine her. I was much impress with the testimony of this doctor. She testify to many things which would point to Darlie innocent. But you can choose not to believe of course. All have free choice in what to think about this case.

I mean, good grief, she was taking diet pills that interfered with her sleep, so much so that little Drake would wake her up just by rolling over in his squeaky bed. But she didn't wake up when a couple of thugs enter her family room and stab her kids to death right next to her?

Please understand here that I mean no personal disrespect. I have read many who say the same thing. But I do not believe at all that she sleep through what happen. I think it is just a bit ..... well I think and think and can not think of the word but it means that it is a simple thing to belive not one of intelligence. This sound bad I know and I try to think of softer word but I can not. But I am not being disrespectful of anyone I hope all understand.

They had to come up with a better explanation than that. The trouble with it is that statment about her fighting with the intruder. It proves she had memory at the time of the call. TA doesn't fade in and out, which is another thing she was trying to convince us of. TA takes a chunk out of your memory in one block. There is no reason why she couldn't remember clearly the events before and after,

But there could be good reason why she can not recall the attack or who did it. And high stress level can make anyone have memory mistakes.


but she claimed she couldn't even remember people who testified right in front of her from one day to the next. Anything that she couldn't answer, she either said or implied she couldn't remember/was part of the TA.


This is not a fair thing to think of her I believe. I can not imagine the feelings or stress I would have if I endured something traumatic like that and then was made to get into the box and make the testimony about it. I have tried to put myself in her place but can not do it. Nor do I think you or others can do it. A thing to remember is that even a mother who stab her child to death have to have a high stress level afteward and to talk about it in a court can make this stress even for a guilty person.

I don't mind giving someone the benefit of the doubt but it has to be at least a logical conclusion drawn from the facts of the situation. I just don't see a connection between Darlie,the events of that night and the days following it, and traumatic amnesia.

Well I do, but I respect your opinion as yours. Many feel as you do.

 

[SnootyVixen]

No, they never said that. They said they had questions about it, but there wasn't enough evidence for it to go anywhere.

Yes, this is what I recall. I did not say it good the first time. But I do have the recollection of their suspicion.

 

[SnootyVixen]

It wouldn't matter now anyway. The statute of limitations has passed.

Oh no, it matters still. Perhaps there is not a legal thing that could be done to someone else but it matters just as a part of this crime discussion. Of course to me just because of this thing I don't have the belief that it was a part of the crime. But I have not yet been given reason to disbelieve that this insurance thing did happen. What it mean I don't know.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Because if he was indeed planning an insurance scam, why in the world would he arrange it to happen when the entire family was there?


The testimonials that were given by the persons involved said very clear that he want to arrange it for a time when the whole family was away. Not when they are home.

Why not when he knew the boys and Darlie would be out? And robbers just don't come in and decide to massacre an entire family just for fun. If they came in to rob they did a piss poor job, and couldn't even be bothered to reach for the jewelry that was in plain sight or Darlie's purse.

Yes, I agree. I look at the crime and all that occur and I do not see it as a robbing of the house. If robbery was the intention at that date then it never happen and I just do not believe it was a matter of theivery. But I have nothing but just my thoughts about it to say why I believe that.

And certainly if the insurance scam had happened that would be the FIRST thing Darin said, "Oh my god the people I hired to steal my belongings butchered my family". Certainly he would know what night they would come since he arranged it.

My understanding of this was that he did not ever arrange it. He just talk to people about it. Bad people to be sure I think. And overheard by others. And talk to Mr. Kee. But that is all. Just talk.
But Darlie take a telephone call the evening before the murders and she become very angry at who telephone her and then she become very angry with Darin about the telephone call. Very angry. It is hard for me to imagine that one makes another angry and it could lead to murder but I do know that it happen a lot. And if some person be so angry at Darlie as to desire to kill her and break in her house to do so and find the little children then I also know that there are horrible monster people who will kill a child and not care.
I do not have a understanding of what happen there and do not know if this have anything to do, but the time it happen and the anger it produce for Darlie and also her anger then at Darin because of it does make me think hard on this subject.
I wish I knew just what was said.

Another thing I have been told is that Darlie become very angry when she learn that Darin do the insurance scam with his automobile. That she did not know of it before it happen but learn later and become angry and go to the business with the two little boys and there she find the person or people who do the theft and she start angrily raising her voice and teling all, to include Darin, that she is going to report him to police for this. The peoples who do the theft become very angry with her and say that if she say something to police that they will kill her and her children. So she do not ever say anything.

While I do not know all what happen here and have to take this story as one that was just told to me and I don't know for sure it happen but I was told that there were more people there, witness people, to this threatening.

It is my suspician that something like this did happen. Might not be just as I describe. But something happen I think.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Snooty, you're listening to camp fire stories again. That never happened.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Yeah, but 80% of that blood is Darlie's, not the boys.

I have heard this said also. But how anyone claimed to know it is the truth I do not know as the blood was not ever tested to see who it came from. Just tiny bits about the room but the vast majority never tested. Just people say it is from Darlie.


So go back and look at it again, and then tell me how much chaos you really see. I just see someone walking back and forth between the rooms to do something unknown.


I do see chaos in the blood all over and the table overturned and so much blood all over the room. I am sorry but I see more than someone walking back and forth between the rooms.

Devon never moved after he was stabbed so his blood just pooled beneath him. Hardly any is even around his body. Most was under it.

This is not as my recollection. Devon was stabbed in the chest and was found to be lying supine so I do not understand where you would think that the blood would just pool beneath him. He was lying supine and the wounds were on the chest, why would the blood go beneath him? There is evidence that some blood did run down his chest sides but there is no mark of the blood on the carpet. If it ran underneath him then it would have to touch the carpet and it did not. Evidence for moving I think. Or for someone else moving him. Also there is the evidence of the blood washing down his chest and flowing to cover the entier front of his pants. I still say that I think with certainty that Devon was in an upright or partial upright position when he was first stabbed. I can not see any other explanation of his pants being soaked with his blood all over the front.
Most of the blood from both of the little boys was found to be still within their chests or lungs upon the autopsy.

More of Damon's is present, but most of it is on the wall where he was found and beneath him where he laid as he slowly bled out, too. There is some at the first location near the foot of the couch where Darlie laid, too. But that is pretty much it for their blood.

A more correct statement would be that it is all that was tested and proven to be his. I am not disbelieving that most of the blood is from Darlie, but I sim[ly say that none of us nor any of the prosecution or the jury could possibly know that for certainity.


All the rest is hers. As the experts say, let the evidence lead you instead of you looking for things to prove your feelings right.

Again I say that you have not the evidence to prove your statement. And perhaps the last sentence should be for you also.
One other thing that I see is that if indeed all the blood is from Darlie then how do you say she was not injured severly?
It have to be one way or another for there is an abundance of blood all about the house. Much much blood. Very small amount was tested.

 

[SnootyVixen]

Snooty, you're listening to camp fire stories again. That never happened.

But how do you know it did not happen?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

But how do you know it did not happen?

Their entire lives were played out for the public to see. Three books have been written about them. If it was true, we'd have something more to go by than someone on an internet forum saying "I heard." Sorry Snooty. I'm not sure who is telling you these stories, but its false info. By the way, who did you hear it from?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Again I say that you have not the evidence to prove your statement. And perhaps the last sentence should be for you also.
One other thing that I see is that if indeed all the blood is from Darlie then how do you say she was not injured severly?
It have to be one way or another for there is an abundance of blood all about the house. Much much blood. Very small amount was tested.

She was not injured severely according to the doctor who treated her. The doctor testified that she would have been released from the hospital HOURS after she arrived had he not been concerned about the media surrounding the case and her mental state after losing two children.

 

[SnootyVixen]

The prosecution did not present the "2-attack" theory. After brainstorming mainly with cami on here, it sounds much more plausable than Darlie doing everything and then calling 911.

No person of scientific involvement with the evidence of this case has said anything about a second attack on Damon. That is just something that has been decided by some posters because it is very hard to make Darlie the murderer unless you say that. I think you probably already know what I think about making up things to make Darlie the guilty one. There should not be a need for that. If she is guilty then the evidence should prove it and not by making up things that no one says ever happened.


Also since I believe Darin to be involved, which the prosecution did not, there was more time before the first PO arrived because he was helping her. I believe he threw the sock down the alley. Since the prosecution did not present the "2-attack" theory, they didn't say anything about the knife. :twocents: I know I read that Damon's is under Darlie's in Springer's book.

You have decided to believe this. But what evdence do you have that support this? The criminal investigation did not find this evidence.


So this is the part on the forum where we brainstorm and throw theories around.

Yes, but those therors and brainstormings should be based on some of the evidence I think. Elsewise this becomes merely a form of entertainment.

For instance, I believe Darlie called 911 before she meant to.

You may have chosen to believe this but you can not have any possibility of knowing it to be the truth. Are we not searching for the truth here?

Once she cut her throat, it probably bled more than she thought it would and she panicked. All of that running around she was doing? I think she was still cleaning up while she was on the phone.

This is so similar to many of the posts I have read in the past that I can not believe it to be an origional thought. I think others have convince you of this. As to the cleaning? I can only laught. There was no cleaning. All you have to do it gaze upon the photos of the crime scene to know there was no cleaning. What could she possibly have been cleaning? And for what reason?
IMO The 1st PO did not arrive until over 3 mins. into the call. She had plenty of time to scurry around and notice Damon was not dead. There is a part on the tape where Darlie screams "Karen", to her neighbor, the nurse. Now how could Karen hear Darlie?

And do you think that Darlie would be thinking of the air condition and whould Karen hear her. Or do you accept the possiblilty that Karen was the only person she could imagine could help her children and she yell for her but can not do more? She can not telephone her as she is already telephoning the emergency woman. She could have left and run across the street I think and maybe she should have done it.

This was summer in TX. People had their windows closed and the A/C's cranked and Karen's house was sort of catty-corner to Darlie's. Some of us think she is screaming "Darin". Was he outside, dropping the sock and she was worried he wouldn't get back in time? These are just things to ponder.

Well, you can ponder them as you will. I will ponder other things.