Brad Cooper April 1st Weekend

[Just the Fax]

It was possible the caffeine was from the previous day, but it could be from that morning coffee. I need to relisten to that portion of his testimony, but I don't think it was for sure an onion, and the red liquid was questioned for its sources. I do remember that for the prosecution theory to work, she needed to have vomited at the time of strangulation. And, that may have indeed been the case. Unless a ME knows for sure what killed somebody, they do what is known as the disclaimer clause and say In my opinon or it may have happened. In either case, what he is saying is this is what I think could have caused her death and I see no other possibility popping out at me.

Good idea to re-listen to the ME testimony.
The caffeine could have been coffee from either 7-11 or 7-12. No more likely one way or another....evidence cancels out.

Cummings just asked the ME if vomiting was possible, he did not proclaim that was his theory. He also asked if she ate her meal around 7PM and killed at 1AM, would the evidence support that...the ME said yes.

My problem with Cummings is he threw 2 scenarios out there. It is obvious they are are thinking she was killed between midnight and 1AM.
With just the onion left, she could have digested her main meal (gone in 4-5 hours) and the onion was left after she ate some dip later in the evening.
I would have never even suggested the possible vomiting scenario unless there was evidence that occurred.

 

[FullDisclosure]

Here is some extremely interesting reading relating to strangulation. I found it to be very educational, and to support the idea of the possibility of need for a major cleanup of vomit, urine, or feces if the State's theory is correct. I'm still not convinced one way or the other, but this was enlightening information all the way around.

www.ncdsv.org/images/strangulation_article.pdf

 

[Just the Fax]

I have been present for the death of 3 family members. None of them released bladder and bowels upon death. Granted, none of them died as a result of strangulation/sudden death, but I'm just making the point that bladder and bowels do not always immediately release.

I am sorry ....sounds distressing.
It is a known fact that the bladder and bowels release upon death.
Many dying people stop eating and drinking in the days before death. In that case, there is little, if anything to release.

 

[FullDisclosure]

I am sorry ....sounds distressing.
It is a known fact that the bladder and bowels release upon death.
Many dying people stop eating and drinking in the days before death. In that case, there is little, if anything to release.

In two of the cases, eating and drinking had stopped a day or two before. In one, it was unexpected (but not sudden) and they had eaten that day.

 

[Just the Fax]

Fact
"Shortly after death, all muscles in the body start to relax. What controls the release of urine, the "floodgate" if you will, is a muscle in the bladder called a "sphincter". The sphincter also relaxes when you die, so the bladder evacuates the urine out."

 

[jilly]

I sure hope this doesn't happen, but in the event Brad gets off and is a free man, wonder what will happen with child custody? I would hope Krista would remain custodial guardian?

I would guess there's a wrongful death suit waiting to be filed. I can't see him ever getting custody of his children back.

 

[jilly]

I have been present for the death of 3 family members. None of them released bladder and bowels upon death. Granted, none of them died as a result of strangulation/sudden death, but I'm just making the point that bladder and bowels do not always immediately release.

I've only been present for one. I agree with you. In my case it was sudden death. There was vomitting, however. The coroner had to put a plug in the mouth to stop it.

 

[Just the Fax]

LOL. A good time to break for commercial floor cleaners. I think my cleaning lady used something for floors that was a spray. I had to finally ask her not to do it because it made them so slippery in socks. So, vinegar and water sounds like a reasonable alternative, especially if you dry it up quickly and do it by hand.

Well, apparently the Cooper's didn't have a "cleaning lady" like you.
The evidence has shown that Brad did not normally lend a hand with household cleaning chores. Interesting he suddenly decided to 'wash' the floors on 7-12-08.
This is the same guy that was sleeping on soiled, yellow stained sheets :escape:

 

[LyndyLoo]

The biggest hurdle I cannot seem to get over is the state nancy was found at that construction site..what she was wearing and not wearing..:waitasec:

She was wearing a sport bra of some sort all rolled weird like..to suggest it was either place on her after the fact..or she was in some sort of struggle while wearing it ( such as sleeping in it)..but the rest of her lacking shoes, poneytail, hat, undwear and shorts screams that she was not out jogging at the time of her assault...

Now, I did not hear ME description of injuries, old or new..DID NAncy have any bruising to her legs, or arms..which would show bruising since it happened prior to death...I just cannot see an outsider doing this, and Nancy not fighting arms, legs and fists..unless she was caught unawares..such as sleeping...

I do not believe she was wearing that green dress when murdered..maybe its just me but doubt she wore a sports bra under a dress like that...I have no clue what she would sleep in..but tend to believe she wasnt wearing it to sleep either...

Circumstantially, she just had to have been strangled in that house..and removed later..Maybe the kids stirred, and Brad couldnt take the time to dress her completely for her morning jog..but did grab what he thought was a pair of shoes and anything else that would indicate jog or fight between them..AND Brad doing so much laundry that morning just seems odd behavior for him...especially since neither one of them had done anything for the other for months!!..His trips to HT coud have been an easy timeline to do some dumping of items..and he did seem in a hurry..Did he leave those kids sleeping while he was out?? IS that why he was so hurried??..IF so he sure took a chance there:waitasec:

SODDI defense is floating, is really going to be hard to get wings IMO..Suppressing evidence was their best chance to keep out things that point to Brad..and that seems to have failed...

Have really enjoyed all the postings the past day or so..lots of great viewpoints to consider..TYVM :seeya:

ETA~~ Brad in possession of items he should NOT have had..since Nancy was known to lock up those items in her car, or carry them on her person....JUST more evidence..he was the last one to see her alive..

 

[cody100]

Well, apparently the Cooper's didn't have a "cleaning lady" like you.
The evidence has shown that Brad did not normally lend a hand with household cleaning chores. Interesting he suddenly decided to 'clean' the floors on 7-12-08.
This is the same guy that was sleeping on soiled, yellow sheets :escape:

If they did have a cleaning lady, I do not want to use him/her. I imagine Brad felt Nancy should have been able to take care of that job since she had the kids in daycare. I imagine Nancy was both very busy running BC down and probably depressed over things. In any case, it didn't look like either of them cleaned much around the house. He did say in his deposition that she was so upset over the conditions when she came home, that he decided to help out with things and lend a hand. Whether that was his reason or not, is speculation.

 

[cody100]

Well, apparently the Cooper's didn't have a "cleaning lady" like you.
The evidence has shown that Brad did not normally lend a hand with household cleaning chores. Interesting he suddenly decided to 'wash' the floors on 7-12-08.
This is the same guy that was sleeping on soiled, yellow stained sheets :escape:

Oh by the way, I do not have one now. I did have one when I worked in an office all day. If someone is working full time, it is hard to get around to keeping the house clean. Not impossible though.

 

[cityslick]

The biggest hurdle I cannot seem to get over is the state nancy was found at that construction site..what she was wearing and not wearing..:waitasec:

She was wearing a sport bra of some sort all rolled weird like..to suggest it was either place on her after the fact..or she was in some sort of struggle while wearing it ( such as sleeping in it)..but the rest of her lacking shoes, poneytail, hat, undwear and shorts screams that she was not out jogging at the time of her assault...

Now, I did not hear ME description of injuries, old or new..DID NAncy have any bruising to her legs, or arms..which would show bruising since it happened prior to death...I just cannot see an outsider doing this, and Nancy not fighting arms, legs and fists..unless she was caught unawares..such as sleeping...

I do not believe she was wearing that green dress when murdered..maybe its just me but doubt she wore a sports bra under a dress like that...I have no clue what she would sleep in..but tend to believe she wasnt wearing it to sleep either...

Circumstantially, she just had to have been strangled in that house..and removed later..Maybe the kids stirred, and Brad couldnt take the time to dress her completely for her morning jog..but did grab what he thought was a pair of shoes and anything else that would indicate jog or fight between them..AND Brad doing so much laundry that morning just seems odd behavior for him...especially since neither one of them had done anything for the other for months!!..His trips to HT coud have been an easy timeline to do some dumping of items..and he did seem in a hurry..Did he leave those kids sleeping while he was out?? IS that why he was so hurried??..IF so he sure took a chance there:waitasec:

SODDI defense is floating, is really going to be hard to get wings IMO..Suppressing evidence was their best chance to keep out things that point to Brad..and that seems to have failed...

Have really enjoyed all the postings the past day or so..lots of great viewpoints to consider..TYVM :seeya:

ETA~~ Brad in possession of items he should NOT have had..since Nancy was known to lock up those items in her car, or carry them on her person....JUST more evidence..he was the last one to see her alive..

Decomposition was at a state where it could of possibly masked any injuries she may has sustained. As for her clothes, there have been plenty of victims over the years that wind up naked. I can assure you they didn't go out of the house in that state.

 

[FullDisclosure]

It is a known fact that the bladder and bowels release upon death.

(respectfully snipped)

JTF, do you have a link for that? I'm not trying to be difficult, but when I googled it, I only found links to sites where people gave opinions and anecdotal evidence. I also noticed that there were stories to support both yes and no to the question of whether they always release and whether it is immediate.

 

[Just the Fax]

If they did have a cleaning lady, I do not want to use him/her. I imagine Brad felt Nancy should have been able to take care of that job since she had the kids in daycare. I imagine Nancy was both very busy running BC down and probably depressed over things. In any case, it didn't look like either of them cleaned much around the house. He did say in his deposition that she was so upset over the conditions when she came home, that he decided to help out with things and lend a hand. Whether that was his reason or not, is speculation.

He said she was upset over only 2 things....he didn't take the garbage out and he didn't wash the floors.

Are you serious Brad? With dirty dishes piled high, old food and ants, she was upset about not cleaning the HW floors? Yea right.
Sounds to me like he needed a reason to wash those floors on 7-12-08 and that was to clean evidence of murder (urine, feces or perhaps even vomit)

 

[cityslick]

He said she was upset over only 2 things....he didn't take the garbage out and he didn't wash the floors.

Are you serious Brad? With dirty dishes piled high, old food and ants, she was upset about not cleaning the HW floors? Yea right.
Sounds to me like he needed a reason to wash those floors on 7-12-08 and that was to clean evidence of murder (urine, feces or perhaps even vomit)

But didn't her friends state she was upset because the whole house was a mess? That's another problem with what she told friends. She said this but then the exterminator said the house was a mess for a number of months.

 

[Just the Fax]

(respectfully snipped)

JTF, do you have a link for that? I'm not trying to be difficult, but when I googled it, I only found links to sites where people gave opinions and anecdotal evidence. I also noticed that there were stories to support both yes and no to the question of whether they always release and whether it is immediate.

Standard hospice document I have seen many times.

http://www.hospicenet.org/html/preparing_for.html

"The signs of death include such things as no breathing, no heartbeat, release of bowel and bladder, no response, eyelids slightly open, pupils enlarged, eyes fixed on a certain spot, no blinking, jaw relaxed and mouth slightly open."

 

[Just the Fax]

But didn't her friends state she was upset because the whole house was a mess? That's another problem with what she told friends. She said this but then the exterminator said the house was a mess for a number of months.

Yes, she told a friend the whole house was a mess.
Again, Brad said she was just upset about him not washing the floors.
He lied when he said he had done everything else to clean and tidy the house while she was away.

 

[sunshine05]

It is disgusting even thinking about all of this, but wouldn't there have been something on the dress if it happened this way? How could it be that there was only one small stain on the dress?

 

[LyndyLoo]

Ohh..I just had another thought..Yikes ...I have heard a few make complaints about Nancy's spending habits..and living way above their means...Stepping back from this murder stuff..I sense that Nancy had no clue their were financial problems..as she moved down there after Brad got established, found a home and things got started...Brad was the "Breadwinner"...and from all appearance they owned top of the line items..cars, home furnishings etc..She was given credit cards to purchase things..and Brad just paid the bills...Brad went to school, took trips to Ireland or someplace, kids got ever toy available, appliances seemed top of the line, automobiles too (BMW) so just maybe Nancy had no clue there was any financial issues..then..suddenly she found out about affair, became suspicious, started accusing, etc...suddenly and appears it was shortly after their search for new house, or possibly building on a lot which they put a check down to hold the lot...THEN it got stopped (excuse health issues to RE Agent)..and things went downhill from there......It was more than likely Nancy never knew anything about Brad's finances..how he spent the money..until he cancelled all financial supports (CC, Bank ACCT)...She had been entirely dependent on Brad and his financial support for herself, the kids and for household upkeep..
She got a rude awakening come that day she found out she had no money, no ability to pay for anything :rocker:..

Between anger about suspicions, and suddenly no control ..I am sure she felt alienated...but not necessarily life threatened...,I do have to wonder what happened when she felt compelled to get outa there and quik??????? 2 days before she died:crazy:

 

[cityslick]

Yes, she told a friend the whole house was a mess.
Again, Brad said she was just upset about him not washing the floors.

My point was more to the fact that what exactly was the truth? Was the whole house a mess or just the floors? Again, the exterminator said the house didn't look any different than it had previously.