Brad Cooper - Timeline, Behavior, Interview, & Evidence Inconsistencies

[tarheellvr]

These were my thoughts on why BC cleaned like a maniac.........

I've thought a lot about the cleaning too and I'm sure you know my stance on things....guilty as hell. Anyway, even though cause of death was strangulation, how do we know there was not a fight beforehand. Nancy was tall, fit, and IMO would fight him like a mad tigress.

I personally don't think he just came up behind her, strangled her for 4+ minutes and she was dead. I think they argued as soon as she got home....primarily over the way she spoke to him at the party and the money he didn't give her. I think he'd had time to simmer and get even madder before she came home and they really had a HUGE fight. Things escalated, they moved around different rooms of the house....I tend to think downstairs since the girls were asleep upstairs. I can even see Nancy slapping him or BC hitting her. Maybe there was blood...even a small amount would neccesitate cleaning, especially if the blood was shed during movement, he wouldn't know for sure how/where to clean to remove it all so it would be better to clean everything/every inch to insure all blood was gone. Again, I'm not talking about lots of blood, just a small amount of blood and blood mixed with saliva from getting hit in the face, however, even a tiny amount would cause worry and excessive cleaning.

I think this fighting and moving around the downstairs messed up the house...of course it would. Nancy went upstairs to go to bed and this is where I think he finally strangled her. I think he followed her upstairs, by this time extremely mad, and just snapped and strangled her. I think she put up a hell of a struggle, knocking things over, grabbing at him, grabbing at doors, walls, furniture, etc. If she had any blood on her fingers..from herself or scratching him as she was strangled this blood was everywwhere she touched, everywhere. She released her urine/bowels....maybe in more than one place as they moved around.

So yes, I personally think he a a LOT to clean up...not a lot of blood, urine, etc, but a lot of area to clean to effectively remove even this little amount. Being the intelligent person he is, I think he cleaned like a madman to get rid of all evidence of a struggle and any blood, saliva, DNA that was spread all over the house from their fight.

JMO but I can see him cleaning for hours and hours in an attempt to remove any evidence of a struggle and of course the murder.

 

[ncsu95]

Problem is...the autopsy results don't support your theory...and BC had some faint scratch marks on his neck that weren't seen in photos from a few days later. So the known evidence doesn't support this.

 

[SleuthyGal]

If Brad was really trying to 'save' his marriage and make Nancy 'happy,' then why would he spend 4+ hours cleaning when what Nancy was MOST UPSET about was the fact that he 'forgot' to give her $300 the day before, as was their practice? In fact, according to Brad's testimony, Nancy called him at work the day before, upset that he forgot to give her the money. Wouldn't at least giving her the weekly household money have gone a long way to calm her down?

He was at HT twice; there are ATM machines. Yet, at NO POINT when he was out that day did he attempt to get any money for her. Further, he didn't attempt it the night before.

- He stopped at the store to pick up beer Fri night before heading to the BBQ (according to his testimony). Did he get her money then? Nope

- Did he get her some money when he was 'out driving around' from approx 1pm to 3pm on Sat. looking for her? Nope.

- Did he ever stop at a bank or ATM between Fri morning and Sat night? Nope.

- Did Brad have reason to believe (or know) that Nancy would never need money again?

WHY did Brad fail to get Nancy her $300 weekly allowance? It's not like he didn't have the time or have several opportunities.

 

[ncsu95]

Great questions SG. I would like to have an answer as to why he didn't get the money during any of his trips out.

 

[RaleighNC]

I brought this up when the deposition was released.

"Did you bring my money?" would have been the first thing out of Nancy's mouth at the BBQ. Before "Hi" or before "You are on kid duty".

He admits that she was yelling at him - so she was probably still annoyed at the BBQ - and then - when he shows up with beer AND WITHOUT MONEY - she was likely livid. ("So - BEER is more important than your children having food to eat?" would come to mind as what she may have said)

It set the tone for their interaction - even socially - there would have been a strong undercurrent of tension between them (more than usual), like when you drop by someone's house and they spouses have been fighting.... It makes sense why Nancy would say things like "whatever" when asked about the tennis match, etc.

I do not believe he was trying to save their marriage any longer - attorneys were selected, first pass separation agreements drafted, etc. And - based on their other interactions, gifts (jewelry, art) would have been how he tried to get back into her good graces and not cleaning....

 

[jmflu]

If this was the one and only time Brad never gave her the $300 in a timely manner, as others have noted, perhaps it was because he knew she would not need it? Is this too much of a leap to make, given that it leads one to believe in premeditation?

 

[garner_nc]

Didn't he offer to get off work on Friday and bring her the money and she declined saying "No, I'll just get it later". Or something like that. I think it was in the depo's or I dreamed it...Can't remember.

If she declined then maybe he was thinking it was no big deal since she did not need it right then. He knew they would be at the party that night, so no need for money there. Maybe he intended to get it on Saturday sometime when she asked for it again? At 620 and 640 in the morning, getting money out of the ATM is not on my mind and I doubt it would be his. IF he had been up since 4am, I'm sure he is thinking about going back to bed and not making a withdrawal.

 

[raisincharlie]

If this was the one and only time Brad never gave her the $300 in a timely manner, as others have noted, perhaps it was because he knew she would not need it? Is this too much of a leap to make, given that it leads one to believe in premeditation?

I doubt it was the first time he failed to give her his so called agreed $300. From his deposition he admitted knowing he had not done it that Friday and he made no effort to get it. Not sure that I can make the leap to thinking this would be a sign of premeditation based on this alone. However, given there were ATMs available at HT when he was out on his morning shopping sprees, does allow me to believe he knew at that point that he did not need to make the withdrawal as he had already made a deposit.

 

[jmflu]

These are good points, garner. Keep in mind, though, that we don't really know that Brad offered to get the money. He SAYS he offered.

The jailed one is prone to lie. (Thanks, RC, I LOVE that name for him!!)

 

[RaleighNC]

Didn't he offer to get off work on Friday and bring her the money and she declined saying "No, I'll just get it later". Or something like that. I think it was in the depo's or I dreamed it...Can't remember.

If she declined then maybe he was thinking it was no big deal since she did not need it right then. He knew they would be at the party that night, so no need for money there. Maybe he intended to get it on Saturday sometime when she asked for it again? At 620 and 640 in the morning, getting money out of the ATM is not on my mind and I doubt it would be his. IF he had been up since 4am, I'm sure he is thinking about going back to bed and not making a withdrawal.

In a normal relationship - I could totally agree with that version of the exchange. But - this was not 2 people functioning in a normal relationship - ESPECIALLY when it comes to money.

In his depo he said that it was not necessary for him to leave work because she was at the pool. But - she WAS yelling at him (according to his testimony) and then he called her back because he thought they got disconnected. I have to believe that there was more to the "never mind" and then just drop it - more like "never mind coming home now - just have it for me at the BBQ" the money being "on time" was a big deal - she'd not just let it rest without a commitment and also according to him she always wanted it on the weekend.

There was never a "no big deal" when it came to money in the Copper household, unfortunately. It seems to me it became a symbol in the real power struggle. She felt like she had some independence on "pay day" and he felt like he cold control her more with the allowance. Sad.

 

[ncsu95]

Didn't he offer to get off work on Friday and bring her the money and she declined saying "No, I'll just get it later". Or something like that. I think it was in the depo's or I dreamed it...Can't remember.

If she declined then maybe he was thinking it was no big deal since she did not need it right then. He knew they would be at the party that night, so no need for money there. Maybe he intended to get it on Saturday sometime when she asked for it again? At 620 and 640 in the morning, getting money out of the ATM is not on my mind and I doubt it would be his. IF he had been up since 4am, I'm sure he is thinking about going back to bed and not making a withdrawal.

He did say it in the deposition. Still doesn't explain why he didn't get it when he had the chance. Maybe he was planning on getting it Saturday...who knows.

 

[ncsu95]

I doubt it was the first time he failed to give her his so called agreed $300. From his deposition he admitted knowing he had not done it that Friday and he made no effort to get it. Not sure that I can make the leap to thinking this would be a sign of premeditation based on this alone. However, given there were ATMs available at HT when he was out on his morning shopping sprees, does allow me to believe he knew at that point that he did not need to make the withdrawal as he had already made a deposit.

I won't use an ATM that isn't my bank due to the charges. Is there a Wachovia ATM at HT? It might explain why he didn't that morning or the night before when he stopped at Lowes.

 

[raisincharlie]

I won't use an ATM that isn't my bank due to the charges. Is there a Wachovia ATM at HT? It might explain why he didn't that morning or the night before when he stopped at Lowes.

So happens there is one by the HT:

http://wachovia.via.infonow.net/locator/DrillAction.do?id=5001508&featureNumber=5

 

[raisincharlie]

In a normal relationship - I could totally agree with that version of the exchange. But - this was not 2 people functioning in a normal relationship - ESPECIALLY when it comes to money.

In his depo he said that it was not necessary for him to leave work because she was at the pool. But - she WAS yelling at him (according to his testimony) and then he called her back because he thought they got disconnected. I have to believe that there was more to the "never mind" and then just drop it - more like "never mind coming home now - just have it for me at the BBQ" the money being "on time" was a big deal - she'd not just let it rest without a commitment and also according to him she always wanted it on the weekend.

There was never a "no big deal" when it came to money in the Copper household, unfortunately. It seems to me it became a symbol in the real power struggle. She felt like she had some independence on "pay day" and he felt like he cold control her more with the allowance. Sad.

Money was always a big deal - I agree.

Qustion for you - do you know the operating hours for Lowes Foods by any chance ?

 

[SleuthyGal]

Lowe's foods (2 Cary locations near BC house)
Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight
Both locations have Debit/Credit Machines

In addition one can get cash back with no fees added from the cashier at the register if a debit card is used (I've done this personally at Lowe's Foods, as well as at other grocery stores, which is why I know).

 

[raisincharlie]

Lowe's foods
Mon-Sun: 6:00am-Midnight

Thanks SG appreciate the information.

ETA so it is possible that on the second trip, which Brad describes as going down Tryon Road, it is possible the jailed one could have stopped also at Lowes- it is on Tryon Road right ?

 

[jmflu]

Yes, he could have gotten cash back that very morning when he went to the store TWICE (at least!) by using his debit card. Didn't even have to go to the bank.

And I'm thinking, if she was really there in the house having a conversation with him that morning, that that conversation would have included the words, "DON'T FORGET MY MONEY."

 

[RaleighNC]

So happens there is one by the HT:

http://wachovia.via.infonow.net/locator/DrillAction.do?id=5001508&featureNumber=5

And I believe that we established earlier that there was a Wachovia in the same center as the Lowes Foods - so no fees if he'd gotten money on the beer run, either and since that was only a few hours after the telephone confrontation, I would have thought it was the most likely time.

It's almost like those fee free ATM's we following him, daring him to withdraw, and still he didn't get the $300. :crazy:

 

[SleuthyGal]

He could have forgone say, 1 hr of 'cleaning to try and please Nancy' and gotten her the week's allowance and she would have been placated. A husband showing some effort to clean (doesn't have to be Herculean) + making sure she has the cash necessary to run the household for the week = placation, perhaps even temporary contentment.

4+ hr cleaning binge but NO cash withdrawn and given for the week's expenses when money was THE #1 point of contention and Nancy had NO cash of her own without getting it from Brad (or her father)? Doesn't = placated spouse.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Thanks SG appreciate the information.

ETA so it is possible that on the second trip, which Brad describes as going down Tryon Road, it is possible the jailed one could have stopped also at Lowes- it is on Tryon Road right ?

Yes. He had options to get cash. At least 3 or 4 options, none of which he chose, and at least 2 that wouldn't have cost him any ATM fees.