Break in @ Tony L's Apartment

[MarleneM]

Right on there! I mean, alot of my friends are guys and manwhores themselves (haha they think!!) but seriously, when I think of them, and I think of me asking them...


"Hey homie, I would like you to meet so-and-so, she wants to clean and cook for you cool?"

They would be cool with that as long as they could!!!

Likewise. Many of my male friends (co-workers) are 20-24yo on average and I get to share in their discussions of dating a "house mom" so they not only get to have sex whenever they'd like, but for the price of a couple weekly dinners and tv cuddle-time sessions they get free maid and catering service too.

One time, a small group of roommates was nagging one of their roomies because he got in a fight and kicked their "house mom" to the curb. While they were only 'joshing' him, they told him he should "take one for the team" and take her back for the sake of a clean house. He considered it, but said the "chick" was getting too desperate and clingy, so together the group started pondering who had any female admirers that could be recruited as the next "girlfriend" that loves to impress her man with cooking and cleaning skills.

 

[mom2chloe]

...and just for grins...I did a VERY quick scan of Casey's cell pings 7/1-7/4.

Casey pinged near Tony's apartment for the mid-morning 7/1 and again in the afternoon 7/1. Looks like just before & after she went to Jesse's for a shower

Bond, are you sure the date of the mysterious shower at JG's was 7/1 and not 7/2? I'm off to check the calendar.....FWIW I checked the pings for 7/2,with regard to pinging near TL's place...I could find nothing relevant?!
I know she swiped cash from AH during this week, are you thinking she "swiped" from others during this timeframe? :blowkiss:

 

[Sundance]

You know I keep forgetting about that sleepwalking hiding the money incident. Casey HAD to have given Amy something-either she slipped her something in a drink before bed, or she waited until she fell asleep and then gave her the chloroform rag...she did SOMETHING to make that happen so she could rob that girl, and she took it so far as to change Amy's pants for her while she slept...Casey is one cold bird.

The pants changing incident and hiding the money were two separate incidents. The pants changing had happened to Amy earlier - that was one of the reasons she tended to believe KC's story of having seen Amy hide the money, because she had already experienced the change of pants into her 'comfy pants'.

LittleMissPantsOnFire just told her she hid the money, she didn't change Amy's pants.

What I don't understand Magic-Cat is wtf KC thought she was going to TELL Amy when she got back from PR and discovered KC had taken her to the cleaners? Wth did she THINK she was going to say? This is beyond me....

Unless she just knew that the relationship would be over, and oh so what who cares not me it's all in the past, can't we move ON cause it's all about me me me me me. . . . .

:loser:

This is the only possibility that I can come up with, but then, my brain doesn't work like KC's does, thank you Papa for that.

:shakehead: :abnormal:
Sundance

 

[Sundance]

Thanks, MTG.

I remember being sooo frustrated that Greta & Clint couldn't get their dates & days-of-the-week straight when this was released. Drove me nutz!

Here's the snip FWIW:

"VAN SUSTEREN: So you moved out July 1. Between July 1 and July 14, did you have any contact with Casey?

HOUSE: No, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to her?

HOUSE: No, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was she going to that bar, the one where you were a DJ?

HOUSE: I stopped. I stopped doing the Friday nights with them at the end of June.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you see Tony at all during that period between July 1 and July 15?

HOUSE: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to him on the phone?

HOUSE: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you move out?

HOUSE: I needed my own place to stay. I was kind of staying at Tony's place for free. And I needed my own apartment, and I didn't want to really, you know, leach off of Tony. And so I needed my own place to go, and I found a place to live, so I moved"​

I didn't provide the durations for the calls between the two...so...for completeness sake, the only thing that would be in slight conflict w/ Clint's statement is the 1minute call on 7/2 @ 5:06PM.

I dunno what the timing of Cameron being @ the apartment was, but, if the break-in occurred after 7/1, well, we know that Casey prolly established that the apartment was empty then if she knew Cameron's whereabouts...or if he was already gone. IF the break-in was post-7/1, and the report was that one of Tony's roommates money was taken, then, someone else had to still be living in the apartment...otherwise...it was pre-7/1, and I don't recall Clint ever bringing it up. Then again, there was likely a circle of people that knew the apartment was gonna be empty if it was...so Casey could be on the short-list of POI's.

Was Cam there while Tony was in NY, or was he gone? Tony had to go pick up his roommate at the airport the next night after he got back from NY, but maybe that was Nate?

 

[magic-cat]

The pants changing incident and hiding the money were two separate incidents. The pants changing had happened to Amy earlier - that was one of the reasons she tended to believe KC's story of having seen Amy hide the money, because she had already experienced the change of pants into her 'comfy pants'.

LittleMissPantsOnFire just told her she hid the money, she didn't change Amy's pants.

What I don't understand Magic-Cat is wtf KC thought she was going to TELL Amy when she got back from PR and discovered KC had taken her to the cleaners? Wth did she THINK she was going to say? This is beyond me....

Unless she just knew that the relationship would be over, and oh so what who cares not me it's all in the past, can't we move ON cause it's all about me me me me me. . . . .

:loser:

This is the only possibility that I can come up with, but then, my brain doesn't work like KC's does, thank you Papa for that.

:shakehead: :abnormal:
Sundance

There is no way to be certain that Casey did not change Amy's pants. She may have been testing out the effectiveness of whatever she was using-CHLOROFORM!- and just ran a little testaroo on Amy. Them being seperate incidents does not conclusively prove that Casey did not have a hand in it. The incidents were only a week apart and Casey WAS on the scene...so I remain unconvinced that it couldn't have transpired with Casey and her "plans". :crazy:

As for what Casey thought would happen when Amy got back from PR? She would just get her mommy and daddy to clear it all up for her just as they had done a hundred times before...

I don't think TLs helping KC break into the shed is a big deal AT ALL. He thought she was living there. I've locked myself out of my parents house (when I lived there) more times than I'd like to admit- friends have helped me "break in" before: removing a screen, using a tree branch thru the mail slot to hit the inside of the deadbolt lock, etc. I doubt any of them thought they were doing anything wrong because it was my parents house where I lived- and if we broke something, it would be on me to pay for it or fix it.

For all we know KC could have blamed her dad for losing the key to the shed, and TL could have thought the reason KC was locked out wasn't even HER fault. I could see KC saying "UGH my dad was supposed to leave the key here under this rock, he is so irresponsible, my mom told him to leave it for me, no wonder they are getting divorced, etc." Who knows

In order for that scenario to have happened, then her dad would have had to have KNOWN she was going to run out of gas and would be needing the gas cans from the shed. Also I note in your examples of friends helping you out in the same way that no tire irons were ever used to force entry (that is why they call it "breaking") and no locks were ever broken. Removing a screen and breaking a lock on an outdoor shed are two entirely different things. And why, since he is so helpful and all, did he not say "Well honey, there is no use in breaking the lock-those things cost more than a gas can. We'll just go get you some gas and you can get the key from your dad later." or "Hey, maybe your dad put the key someplace else-why don't you just call him and find out what he did with it?" There were plenty of options besides what was chosen.

Wait. Now I'm confused. I thought that Amy had told Casey about an incident where she went to be with one pair of pants on and woke up in another pair of pants, so she believed that sleepwalking was the reason. Casey just took this information and claimed that Amy must've been sleepwalking again when she "hid" her own money, which of course as we all know, Casey stole from Amy.

Yep, it seems to have been 2 different incidents-you are correct.

iirc amy stated it was particularly unusual that she chose to put on those pants (thinking she'd done it herself) as they had become too tight for her and very uncomfortable so she had recently stopped wearing them.
if my memory is wrong on this then i apologize.

I still think Casey had a hand in it-somehow.

That is what happened. When Amy discovered the money missing, Casey reminded her of the time when she woke up wearing different pants than she was wearing when she went to bed and suggested that Amy might have been sleep walking again. I think Amy must have been drinking the night she switched her pants - who wears pants to bed? I don't believe Casey drugged Amy to steal her money, why would she need to if Amy was already asleep?

To test out how "asleep" someone could really be under the influence of chloroform and how easily they could be robbed?

Casey and Amy never discussed the pants incident. When Amy lost the money Casey told her she saw her putting it away. Amy told the cops that she thought the story was weird, but she believed it because she had recently woke up in different pants. She thought she never told Casey about that incident, and didn't think Casey knew of it.

The fact that Casey told her she hid it in her sleep tells me something. She had already done a "test run" to make sure it would be effective so when she went in for the "kill" (the money) she would be sure to be covered.

You're right, I just reread Amy's interview. Casey told Amy she saw Amy sleeping walking and that she put the money aside. Amy believed the story because the week before she had changed her pants in her sleep. Amy said she didn't recall telling Casey about the switched pants, but that she thinks she must have in order for Casey to come up with the sleepwalking story.

Either way, it appears that Casey was not responsible for Amy's changed pants.

It doesn't appear that way to me at all. It appears even more as if she did have a hand in the pants incident considering that Amy had not TOLD her about it to her recollection, and we KNOW that Casey was lying when she told Amy she had "hidden it" in her sleep. Casey knew about that incident already. She knew her plan would work and I have no doubt that she actually changed Amy's pants to make Amy feel uncertain later when she robbed her and told her she must have been sleep-walking.

 

[CourtsInSession]

I feel for TL, I really do. I don't think he knew what he was getting into, (that sounds really bad, now that I look at it, sorry,) when he started up with Casey. I believe that he is just a young man who had no idea that people can be like her. I'm 51 and I
still have trouble wrapping my brain around this case.

I don't know how many times people have to be cautioned about personally meeting people you have connected to via the computer. Casey is another prime example why a personal meeting shouldn't happen. You never know what you are asking for or getting involved with.

 

[Sundance]

It doesn't appear that way to me at all. It appears even more as if she did have a hand in the pants incident considering that Amy had not TOLD her about it to her recollection, and we KNOW that Casey was lying when she told Amy she had "hidden it" in her sleep. Casey knew about that incident already. She knew her plan would work and I have no doubt that she actually changed Amy's pants to make Amy feel uncertain later when she robbed her and told her she must have been sleep-walking.

You could very well be right Magic-Cat. KC is absolutely the most bodacious liar I have ever seen. Even worse than Scotty P. So I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much if this is the way it played out

But I do know this - she is a piece of work isn't she?

She is the Piece of Work From Hell.

 

[magic-cat]

You could very well be right Magic-Cat. KC is absolutely the most bodacious liar I have ever seen. Even worse than Scotty P. So I guess it wouldn't surprise me too much if this is the way it played out

But I do know this - she is a piece of work isn't she?

She is the Piece of Work From Hell.

Oh yeah-she is one piece of work allright...
A creation straight from the dark lord's heart.
I bet the forces of evil just LOVE Casey and all of her ways!

 

[magic-cat]

Think about this. Casey had not had an above-board, tax filing job since BEFORE Caylee was born. Caylee was almost THREE when she vanished. This is almost three long years during which Casey honed her criminal skills and lived by theft and mooching and convoluted tales to extract money from the unsuspecting. She had YEARS of criminal activity under her belt: she was not a novice at crime. And crimes tend to get larger and larger over time, especially when said criminal does not get brought to justice. She was never "caught" by LE before, and whenever her parents "caught" her they just bought her out of it and let it slide and looked the other way and went on about their business. SO, she was ripe to be doing some bigger crimes along about when this break-in occurred, and she had just taken the plunge into the depths of the pools of crime by murdering her own daughter, so a breaking and entering at her boyfriends would be NOTHING to her, and I mean NOTHING. Heck, she probably HAD a key to their house, having snuck a copy at some point unbeknownst to any of them, and had used the key to gain entry and then just broke some things to make it appear it was an ACTUAL break in and not just a dumb criminal on a binge!

 

[LCoastMom]

I don't know how many times people have to be cautioned about personally meeting people you have connected to via the computer. Casey is another prime example why a personal meeting shouldn't happen. You never know what you are asking for or getting involved with.

I think KC is the exception that makes it necessary to have safety nets in place, but I know too many people who have had successful results on line to feel it should not be used as a tool by people who spend too much time alone or conversing with virtual friends or working 8 hours a day in a cubicle.

O/T

My daughter met my son in law on line, they actually grew up around the block from each other and met thru a singles chat.

My niece met her husband on line. Her sister signed her up on a dating board. They had both recently relocated to a new state for their jobs, my niece worked from her house, her dh worked nites as a restaurant mngr. My niece had lost both of her parents within 9 mos of each other, her dh also had lost his parents shortly before they met. They attended the same church but never would have met without the net.

I could go on, this generation of adults and young adults is living in a very different time then ever before. The technology they grew up with is amazing.

 

[LCoastMom]

Was Cam there while Tony was in NY, or was he gone? Tony had to go pick up his roommate at the airport the next night after he got back from NY, but maybe that was Nate?

From the best of my recollection the apt was empty at least part of the time TonE was in NY

 

[LCoastMom]

That is what happened. When Amy discovered the money missing, Casey reminded her of the time when she woke up wearing different pants than she was wearing when she went to bed and suggested that Amy might have been sleep walking again. I think Amy must have been drinking the night she switched her pants - who wears pants to bed? I don't believe Casey drugged Amy to steal her money, why would she need to if Amy was already asleep?

But didn't Amy say she didn't tell KC about the first incident? So if KC wasn't there that morning and Amy didn't tell her what happened then the alternative is KC was involved...

Chilly, Amy said repeatedly she was sleeping on the couch at the boys house. She may have been wearing sweat pants/yoga pants to sleep in. If I was camping on the couch in an apt with 2 boys, sweat pants would seem like a good idea. Heck, it gets so cold here I sleep in sweats lots of nites.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond, are you sure the date of the mysterious shower at JG's was 7/1 and not 7/2? I'm off to check the calendar.....FWIW I checked the pings for 7/2,with regard to pinging near TL's place...I could find nothing relevant?!
I know she swiped cash from AH during this week, are you thinking she "swiped" from others during this timeframe? :blowkiss:

Hey, M2C.

I'm working from my notes & pings. W/o looking up Jesse's statements I'm pretty certain it was 7/1, although I've been wrong plenty-o-times. :bang: The pings show her near Tony's apt briefly just after 11AM (perhaps just driving by on the way to Jesse's), then, again for about 1hr starting @ 1:18PM. Then, for the last time for about 15mins @ 5PM.

I checked the pings for the period 7/1-7/4 yesterday and I didn't see any other period during that timeframe that she spent near Tonys (per pings anyway).

 

[JWG]

Hey, M2C.

I'm working from my notes & pings. W/o looking up Jesse's statements I'm pretty certain it was 7/1, although I've been wrong plenty-o-times. :bang: The pings show her near Tony's apt briefly just after 11AM (perhaps just driving by on the way to Jesse's), then, again for about 1hr starting @ 1:18PM. Then, for the last time for about 15mins @ 5PM.

I checked the pings for the period 7/1-7/4 yesterday and I didn't see any other period during that timeframe that she spent near Tonys (per pings anyway).

Definitely 7/1. That was the first night Tony was gone, and although she spent the better part of the day with Amy, she did not spend the night at her / Ric's place. She went to Fusian and then spent the night with a guy in the Bithlo area...believe it was Andy F.

 

[eddeva]

iirc amy stated it was particularly unusual that she chose to put on those pants (thinking she'd done it herself) as they had become too tight for her and very uncomfortable so she had recently stopped wearing them.
if my memory is wrong on this then i apologize.

I still think Casey had a hand in it-somehow.

so do i magic-cat. that was the point of the post, i'm sorry i wasn't clearer in stating my opinion but usually when posting i'm actually supposed to be doing something else entirely and things are apt to be a tad rushed.

 

[eddeva]

did they ever check and see if KC's fingerprints were on broken window?

hi 6thcents

in that casey spent so much time at tony's, i doubt that the presence of her fingerprints on a broken window would prove anything.

 

[Chezhire]

I think they were both wrong. Tony saw that she was too clingy, too quick to get serious, too attached, yet he didn't sit her down and set her straight. Instead he took her into his bed every night. I don't believe in the double standard - he also went to bed with a girl he just met. Did he every tell her that he was just 'having fun?' I can't support any man, no matter his age, using someone like that.

I don't think Tony was using Casey, I just don't think he was nearly as serious as she was and I have no doubts that he had told her that-probably numerous times. Heck, he even teased her in front of his friends about his leaving town at times, which indicates to me he'd been clear with her that although he definitely liked her, he wasn't ready to settle down the way she so obviousy appeared to be.

I've met/seen a lot of girls like Casey - they just won't take the guys' explanations re: not ready to settle down + they incorrectly think that they can change guys' minds by having sex, cooking, taking care of the guys, etc., while, back at the ranch, the guy is like, "Hey, I like you, but I'm not ready to get hitched!" The girl's response: "Oh, you will be - you just wait and see!" End sum result? The guy was being honest. Some women just don't listen and incorrectly think that they can change the guys's mind by sex, etc. Reminds me of Casey's photograph collage re: "I didn’t mean to alarm you, Subtlety’s my weakness, Give me a minute to charm you, And you’ll know what I mean, Maybe I didn’t mention, You won’t regret my attention, I’ve got tricks you’ve never seen," etc. :doh:

I don't believe in the double standard either - but then again, I am not criticising Casey for sleeping with Tony or staying at his place.

 

[Ripley007]

If Casey DID make a duplicate of Tony's key, hmmm...and there was a key found at the scene, and there was a bag of his garbage in her trunk-maybe she was setting someone there up to take the fall for Caylee. Who knows what is in the mind of that woman?

ITA-Who knows what's in her mind...so manipulative...The bag of garbage in the back of her trunk, quickly identified/confirmed for LE by TonE and roomates has always puzzled me. A bag of trash from his apartment should have been placed in the apt. dumpster, not KC's trunk. WHY? And does it matter that one of the items contained in that trash bag was an old Debit card receipt of the roommate's from FUSIAN LOUNGE of all places....?
And "the Key". Lee found a key amongst KC's things and somehow KNEW the key didn't belong to her, that it was in fact a key of Amy's so he destroyed it to "protect" Amy? Huhhhhh?????? Did said key have a label attached to it? Otherwise, a key is a key is a ...What? Things that make you go hmmmm.

 

[QuietStorm]

I think TL didnt realise that he was "breaking in" to the shed. As we know by the IM's and text messages between KC and TL, she was telling him that IT WAS HER HOUSE. TL probibly thought that he was helping KC get into her OWN SHED.

It took me all of one hot second to come to the conclusion that KC broke into the appt. If she did have a key then she staged it to look like a break-in so she wouldnt come under suspicion.

IIRC, they found white plastic garbage bags or a bag in KC's car that had TL roommate's receipts and whatnot in it.

 

[QuietStorm]

My dd has a friend with a new baby, her dh left for boot camp and she came by to visit. Big storm that night, I told her don't be silly, stay here. And so she did, the whole 6 mos he was gone! She had her own place, she went and got her mail once a week. Left and showed up with amazing timing as I came and went. She wasn't living here but it sure felt like she was!

When KC would go by the Ant's and come back to TonE's with bags of clothes and food for the apt, she kinda crossed over from being a hook up to moving in, at least as a temporary address.

Remember that KC could not go home. There was no Caylee to take with her. She would be under the gun and grilled to death by her family. She could have been using TL more than he was using her, if he was. She paid rent with the only liquid ASSet she had, knowing full well going home was out of the question.