Brendan Dassey: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's rape, torture, and murder?

[shadowraiths]

What say you?

 

[rocket_girl]

Watching his confessions make me pause and wonder, however the evidence doesn't support it.

I don't know who did it. But whoever did it, didn't do it in the house or the garage!

 

[shadowraiths]

I voted that "he didn't help but may have seen something," "probably not guilty, his confession was coerced," and "undecided, but believe a new trial is in order."

The big however, having read the quite appalling and obscene Kachinsky emails? I would change my vote to, "not guilty, full stop, his conviction should be overturned."

 

[SoBeCzar]

I would have liked to have seen the poll made differently.
1. Coerced confession, not guilty.
2. Coerced confession, guilty.
3. Coerced confession, undecided.
4. Confession fair, not guilty.
5 Confession fair, guilty.
6. Confession fair, still undecided on guilt or innocence.

That said I appreciate the poll and feel it does give us insight into fellow websleuthers views. It is fascinating to see the different takes. I had to take a break while watching the confession as it upset me so much. Young people with marginal IQ's are often unlikely to protest against authority figures. And the way his attorney was against his innocence and helping LE the poor kid never had a chance. I'm still confused as to whether it was legal for LE to take a child from school and question them without a parent present. I plan on telling my grandchildren to never be questioned by LE without a parent or attorney if they are read their rights. I was raised to trust LE. That sure has changed since watching the documentary.

 

[Coconut_Meat]

I am not here to proclaim the guilt or innocence of either Steven Avery or Brendan Dassey. I am here to state there needs to be a new trial. They violated Brendan Dassey's rights and there is enough evidence to suspect evidence tampering. On top of a new trial, the Justice Department needs to investigate the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department and Kachinsky needs to be disbarred.

 

[Safeguard]

No. Just no!

He's guilty of reading the Sydney Sheldon book, "Kiss The Girls", from which he got the bulk of his, "confession". Emotional battering should be illegal. He was not "lead", "coerced", "coaxed" or any of the other pretty euphemisms people like to use, he was battered.

 

[fruity]

I personally believe that a significant amount of doubt was introduced for both suspects - more than enough to satisfy legal 'reasonable doubt'.

But I am much more concerned with the treatment of two people who have a documented IQ of 70. even though they are both on the higher end, it is still a significant factor IMO. Surely the US legal system has safeguards to protect the legal rights of people with intellectual disabilities? Why weren't these safeguards in place for this case? It is well known that legal procedures need to be adapted to ensure a fair trial for people with intellectual disabilities. The real life functioning of these two people (who clearly show signs of maladaptive behaviour) is an issue which is separate to their guilt or lack of guilt, but the fact that it doesn't seem to have been a factor in this case is troublesome from a legal perspective.

 

[fruity]

Also, I have only watched the first episode of the documentary. Everything else has come from court documents and msm.

 

[Miette]

I personally believe that a significant amount of doubt was introduced for both suspects - more than enough to satisfy legal 'reasonable doubt'.

But I am much more concerned with the treatment of two people who have a documented IQ of 70. even though they are both on the higher end, it is still a significant factor IMO. Surely the US legal system has safeguards to protect the legal rights of people with intellectual disabilities? Why weren't these safeguards in place for this case? It is well known that legal procedures need to be adapted to ensure a fair trial for people with intellectual disabilities. The real life functioning of these two people (who clearly show signs of maladaptive behaviour) is an issue which is separate to their guilt or lack of guilt, but the fact that it doesn't seem to have been a factor in this case is troublesome from a legal perspective.

It took until 2002 for the Supreme Court to decide that executing people with intellectual disabilities as cruel and unusual punishment, but each state can decide what constitutes intellectual disability for themselves. Other than this they have no other safeguards, and perhaps this is one of the reasons why they make up such a larger percentage of the prison population compared with the general population.

 

[shadowraiths]

I personally believe that a significant amount of doubt was introduced for both suspects - more than enough to satisfy legal 'reasonable doubt'.

But I am much more concerned with the treatment of two people who have a documented IQ of 70. even though they are both on the higher end, it is still a significant factor IMO. Surely the US legal system has safeguards to protect the legal rights of people with intellectual disabilities? Why weren't these safeguards in place for this case? It is well known that legal procedures need to be adapted to ensure a fair trial for people with intellectual disabilities. The real life functioning of these two people (who clearly show signs of maladaptive behaviour) is an issue which is separate to their guilt or lack of guilt, but the fact that it doesn't seem to have been a factor in this case is troublesome from a legal perspective.

Although, presently specific to capital punishment with regard to competence to be put to death, the "Bright Line" cut-off for IQ, is being hotly debated as a result of "Hall v Florida."

As far as this trial, within the Wisconsin jurisdiction, there are competency provisions. However, those must be raised by defending counsel. Unsurprisingly, they weren't, since he was busy setting Brendan up as opposed to actually defending him.

And finally, here is an interesting article regarding juvenile competency regarding miranda.

 

[BethInAK]

Also, I have only watched the first episode of the documentary. Everything else has come from court documents and msm.

Fruity: Once you see the video of his "confession" you will be outraged. He very clearly has NO idea what they want him to say. They have to feed him every bit that he gives him that is correct. Everything he comes up with on his own is wrong.

 

[BethInAK]

I personally believe that a significant amount of doubt was introduced for both suspects - more than enough to satisfy legal 'reasonable doubt'.

But I am much more concerned with the treatment of two people who have a documented IQ of 70. even though they are both on the higher end, it is still a significant factor IMO. Surely the US legal system has safeguards to protect the legal rights of people with intellectual disabilities? Why weren't these safeguards in place for this case? It is well known that legal procedures need to be adapted to ensure a fair trial for people with intellectual disabilities. The real life functioning of these two people (who clearly show signs of maladaptive behaviour) is an issue which is separate to their guilt or lack of guilt, but the fact that it doesn't seem to have been a factor in this case is troublesome from a legal perspective.

I have a very hard time understanding how people don't see "reasonable doubt" in this case.
I also am concerned about the lack of understanding about the capabilities of these two men. I can't see a person with an IQ of 70 able to cover his tracks so well that the police need to plant 14 pieces of evidence...

 

[fruity]

I am so sad that the US doesn't protect intellectually disabled people. They are so vulnerable! It isn't that much better here for some minority groups (Australia) but at least we TRY to respect the UN Declaration and there are legal practices and regulations that must be followed for people with intellectual disabilities.

I will definitely have to watch the rest of the series

 

[KayCerynPage1990]

I believe Dassey is completely innocent but perhaps he might have seen something (I do wonder if someone else committed the crime and Dassey saw that and not what he said).

His "confession" is remarkably similar to that of the West Memphis Three and that was later reasonably proven to be coerced and untrue.

I feel terrible for Dassey, he is a victim in this.

 

[Boodles]

Fruity: Once you see the video of his "confession" you will be outraged. He very clearly has NO idea what they want him to say. They have to feed him every bit that he gives him that is correct. Everything he comes up with on his own is wrong.

I strongly disagree. I believe Brendan's conscience got the best of him and he decided to talk. During the course of multiple iterations of questioning, he was being influenced by others (i.e. family) as to what to admit/not admit. While Kachinsky's investigator was absolutely out of line in the coercive questioning he inflicted upon Brendan, I believe the info Brendan shared was that which one who was uninvolved could never have known. Brendan just wasn't intellectually and emotionally able to maintain the "I dont know...I didn't do it" storyline his family was pressuring him to portray.

I dont believe, from what I have seen and read, that Brendan had effective counsel. But I don't doubt his involvement in Teresa's murder.

 

[Tawny]

I strongly disagree. I believe Brendan's conscience got the best of him and he decided to talk. During the course of multiple iterations of questioning, he was being influenced by others (i.e. family) as to what to admit/not admit. While Kachinsky's investigator was absolutely out of line in the coercive questioning he inflicted upon Brendan, I believe the info Brendan shared was that which one who was uninvolved could never have known. Brendan just wasn't intellectually and emotionally able to maintain the "I dont know...I didn't do it" storyline his family was pressuring him to portray.

I dont believe, from what I have seen and read, that Brendan had effective counsel. But I don't doubt his involvement in Teresa's murder.

Have you read the transcripts of his interrogations?

 

[Boodles]

Have you read the transcripts of his interrogations?

Yes I have.

 

[secretagent]

There is no death penalty at play, so no, not really.

 

[Sustained]

Looks like Brendan was moved yesterday from the Green Bay CI to Columbia CI down by Madison. Will be a much longer drive for the Dassey family to go see him ...

 

[annkitty0630]

I could not agree more with you, this is sick beyond all belief in my humble opinion! The fact our justice system resorts to these tactics makes my skin crawl along with the fact that a man that spent 18 years in prison is exonerated and when a lawsuit is filed for $36M he is now a murderer??? I question all of this because how coincidental can all this be? Again, just my humble opinion!! The Horrifying coerced confession by Brendan is beyond scary which led to all this and the LE was the influence behind this confession... SCARY, SCARY, SCARY :blushing::thinking::drumroll: