British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

[Isabella]

I took it from the program I saw that the prosecutor thought the testimony proved his contention that three people committed the crime.

But like you I'm puzzled: even if the 48 Hours test was flawed and the witness could somehow hear footsteps several floors below on a cold night, how does she distinguish the exact number of people? I can understand that she knew people ran in two directions and maybe she could tell that only one person went one way. But how does one "hear" the difference between two or three or four people running the other way?

I feel confident human nature is the same in Italy as here: sometimes witnesses are mistaken; sometimes they decide the prosecution "needs help" to avoid a miscarriage of justice; and sometimes they just want to be a part of a high-profile case. (ETA: and in fairness, sometimes they are accurate.)

You can generally tell the difference between one person running and several. And as for recanting i dont know but in the article i read she said she heard several after hearing the scream.

 

[Isabella]

yes, the woman that lived there said she heard nothing and the 48 hours dude said he could hear SOMETHING, but couldn't tell exactly what he was hearing. but also, these two were LISTENING for something. how many people hang out in their bathrooms, waiting to hear something?

The neighbour said it was after the "bloodcurling scream" so yes they would be looking/waiting to hear something. I dont want to imagine what that scream sounded like

 

[Isabella]

Perhaps, if she offered PL's name out of the blue. But the program I saw claimed the police suggested it first. Of course, there's no tape...

Personally, I think the law should require all police interrogations be taped. Not because I think police are corrupt as a rule, but because the process itself is highly unusual.

Amanda Knox changer her story several times. I very much doubt that the police said Hey Amanda did you see Patrick kill Meredith because in all honesty i doubt they believed anything she said.

 

[Steely Dan]

thanks both

yes, I've read all that info ... I guess what I was wondering about was actual physical evidence, other than the two points I linked to

the video evidence of them going into the apt. intrigues me but I'd like to actually see that video if it exists

the one point that bothers me to the point of distraction in favour of her guilt is the supposedly coming home & taking a shower without noticing the blood - b/c if the blood indeed looked then like it does in the pics I've seen (all over the basin etc.), I find it impossible to believe someone would not see/question that or assume it was menstrual blood

anyway, I'm still undecided and I guess just alarmed at all the inconcistencies (which someone else - steely dan? has mentioned repeatedly here)

I wish I had a link to the actual reports/stories in her handwriting - I agree there's a lot of 'hinkiness' connected to this case and I think if I could see in print what she had to say, I'd be swayed more one way or the other

also, the phonecall transcripts to her mother do seem to be 'setting the stage' for an alibi - I do question those as well

ETA: when this case first broke, I was of the opinion she was guilty but as time elapsed, I became more & more unsure ...

I don't know if it's just me but I have had problems with how each country is reporting the crime. The two countries doing the worst reporting IMO are America and Italy. Since the victim was British it seems the British press has a take on the victim and crime that I think is better than the other two. The British want the truth about the murder. They have no dogs in the fight.

It appears to me that media coverage in US is unbalanced. I watched the 48 hours Mystery which made it look like poor Amanda was falsely convicted.
I personally don't think that's the whole story.
She admits she was smoking a substance that night.
Her reported behavior is strange-she was reportedly doing cartwheels in the police station?
Her and the boyfriend kissing, hugging in front of the media after the girl was murdered?
I am not at all convinced she is so innocent as the US medial apparently tries to portray it.

I didn't see the 48 hours show but I did watch the Dateline on Friday. I was impressed by the Dateline piece. It seemed fairly balanced and included a lot of the evidence against her.

 

[LogicalMinds]

The bathroom where Amanda showered has a bloody sink
and blood on the walls

blood..and a murdered body...would have some smell I would think?

yet amanda calmly showered and was in the apt for an hour...some cleaning was carried out? or attempts to clean...then the cops were called

there is discrepancy about the time of the call

amanda and rafelle could not get their "stories" straight about the night before...they claimed to be together...or maybe not...they were at his place watching the movie "Amelie" on his computer....but no record of it on his computer...
rafalle then didn't know if Amanda was there..

and so on

at one point Amanda claimed she was in the apt and saw Patrick with Meredith and heard Meredith's screams but put her fingers in her ears....

later she recanted that

the "break in" was "obviously" staged....so who let Guede in>?

 

[Isabella]

Bolded By Me
As you stated in the previous post “she probably would have ended up the same way as Meredith as a sentence. Dead! “ Just curious; which is it?

A lying evil manipulative woman does not equal murderer.

I personally believe there was more than enough evidence to believe shes a cold hearted murderer sorry.

As for the second post you quoted..someone asked would people consider it the same if it happened in the Middle East and not Italy. My answer was that if it was in the Middle East Amanda would probably end up dead also as the punishment.

 

[jjenny]

I don't know if it's just me but I have had problems with how each country is reporting the crime. The two countries doing the worst reporting IMO are America and Italy. Since the victim was British it seems the British press has a take on the victim and crime that I think is better than the other two. The British want the truth about the murder. They have no dogs in the fight.



I didn't see the 48 hours show but I did watch the Dateline on Friday. I was impressed by the Dateline piece. It seemed fairly balanced and included a lot of the evidence against her.

I watched most of the 48 hours. They have basically discounted all the evidence they say there was as not credible. That show sure made it look like "poor Amanda" was railroaded. I personally don't think that's the whole story. Did Amanda really buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder? Unless I somehow missed it, I don't think it was shown at all on 48 hours.

 

[Isabella]

As with the American system, the Italian jury will be asked to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt this week. Their verdict is not supposed to be about medieval superstitions, sexual projections, Satan fantasies or the honor of a prosecution team. If they simply apply the standard that the law calls for, the verdict will be obvious.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/amanda-knox-revisited/

good article

That article is one of the most biased pieces ive seen about the case.

 

[Isabella]

JMO, but that article focuses on all the things that make her sound innocent. He leaves out all of the evidence that could lead people to believe she's guilty.

Lol its funny the way that works dont you think?

 

[Isabella]

it's really interesting to me that none of the defendants 'turned' on each other

I think her blaming an innocent man may have been her telling a story of what might have happened after so much pressure to give them something, anything ...

I don't think police should be allowed to ask suspects to speculate or imagine ... or in fact interrogate for so long w/o a lawyer present

why didn't she invoke right away? do they have that option there?

the other thing that worries me is all the talk about a drug-haze - she supposedly said they smoked some pot (I've read hash too) - pot or hash does not (in my experience) debilitate one to the extent that has been publicized, so was the pot/hash spiked? were there other drugs in her system (either voluntarily or not) that impacted her judgment and memory?

Idk - I'm just really bothered by this case & I honestly don't know what to believe (but I'm troubled by the supposed 'unclean hands' of the prosecutor)

p.s. I haven't done drugs in many, many moons :innocent:

It depends how you look at that. Guede asked for a fast track trial because he thought Amanda was going to try and frame him. I thought he was also claiming they killed her while he was in the bathroom?

 

[Isabella]

I watched most of the 48 hours. They have basically discounted all the evidence they say there was as not credible. That show sure made it look like "poor Amanda" was railroaded. I personally don't think that's the whole story. Did Amanda really buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder? Unless I somehow missed it, I don't think it was shown at all on 48 hours.

A local shopkeeper testified in court to that yes. When asked if the girl in the shop was in the court he pointed straight at Amanda.

 

[jjenny]

A local shopkeeper testified in court to that yes. When asked if the girl in the shop was in the court he pointed straight at Amanda.

So for what purpose exactly would she buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder?
I don't think she listed her hobbies as "cleaning" on her facebook page.

 

[jjenny]

It depends how you look at that. Guede asked for a fast track trial because he thought Amanda was going to try and frame him. I thought he was also claiming they killed her while he was in the bathroom?

Has it been established for sure if Amanda and Guede knew each other?

 

[Isabella]

So for what purpose exactly would she buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder?
I don't think she listed her hobbies as "cleaning" on her facebook page.

Especially at 7.30 or so in the morning. He said she was waiting for him to open the shop.

 

[Isabella]

Has it been established for sure if Amanda and Guede knew each other?

Another witness testified the day prior to the murder AK Guede and Raffael was together so yes.

He testified about an incident with a knife.

 

[panthera]

So for what purpose exactly would she buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder?
I don't think she listed her hobbies as "cleaning" on her facebook page.

Well the only thing that comes to my mind is trying to clean up evidence. After reading about her calmly taking a shower with blood all over the bathroom it definitely makes me believe she knew what was going on. MOO

 

[Steely Dan]

So for what purpose exactly would she buy cleaning supplies the morning after the murder?
I don't think she listed her hobbies as "cleaning" on her facebook page.

:floorlaugh:

But to be fair she also didn't list killing roommates either.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Amanda admitted to knowing Guede according to the records

 

[Isabella]

:floorlaugh:

But to be fair she also didn't list killing roommates either.

Lol ok that made me laugh.

 

[Nyla4]

Sorry, in my experience, innocent women don't wear bright green to court, do cartwheels, and braid their hair! :snooty:All of that plus going lingerie shopping the day after your roommate is murdered scream narcissist to me, just like Casey Anthony!

You're right! It reminds me of how the Manson women were acting during their trial.