Burke Ramsey Files 750 Million Dollar Lawsuit Against CBS

[Miz Adventure]

per the Bonita Papers:

"Arndt met with John Ramsey, explained the procedure for the telephone "trap", and asked permission to also hook up the portable tape recorder she had retrieved from the police department. She instructed him on using the tape recorder should a call come in from the kidnappers. During this discussion with John he was able to carry on a conversation, and was focused and articulate with his words. He sometimes even smiled and joked."

"He sometimes even smiled and joked."

Now that is weird.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Very good point but someone posted a photo of the crime scene early morning and it was covered by the grate. All they had to do was move the grate and walk three feet. Go back in their foot prints and no one would have known any different. In this snow you could photo it but a mould would have been very difficult.

Snow impression wax must be a new discovery. It is all related to heat creating the mould. Wax provides an insulating medium between the heat-generating casting material and the surrounding snow. Not sure you could even do it back then. So any footprints would have created doubt unless someone caught you doing it. Leave the grate slightly to one side....




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Perhaps they used plaster of paris?

 

[Ambitioned]

"He sometimes even smiled and joked."

Now that is weird.

"Susan Stine and John had been out on the deck, joking about setting up a machine-gun turret to pick off the paparazzi if the crawled through our bushes. It was always good to laugh at our problems when we could. Stored in the house was a collector's 12 gage shotgun that my dad had given John; we had never fired it. Jokingly, John brought the gun out on the deck and was standing there, playfully aiming it toward the water. Susan had said she needed a gun, so John gave her one!" "However, he quickly put the gun away, realizing that photographers might be lurking somewhere within camera range. If the tabloids had gotten a picture of John with that shotgun, to telling what kind of headline and accompanying story they would have run. Whoever was sneaking around out there with his zoom lens was just twenty minutes too late!"

Oh yeah, everything was a riot with these people. I have gallows humor. It is needed where I work but their behavior tells me they think JB's death was funny.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Perhaps they used plaster of paris?

Sulphur is the best, plaster of Paris used to be used before dental stoning. Sulphur imprint here.

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[DrollForeignFaction]

Sherlock, one thing I noticed that features in your theory is the lack of footprints in the snow. If you look at pictures of the scene from that morning you can see that the snow was patchy. The window well is right up against the brick patio & the brick did not have snow on it (though I've heard there was some frost, idk if it was on the walkways or not)


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About the snow/frost: when police arrived at 6am that morning it was still dark and there was frost on the ground/sidewalks that was completely undisturbed. While the snow was patchy, which could allow someone to avoid it, they still would have left prints in the frost. In the photo Sherlock is referencing (which was taken hours after the frost had melted), we see the clear walkway and the metal grate are separated by a large, undisturbed patch of snow. I can't find that exact picture but hopefully someone will post it again. Frankly it's bizarre to me after seeing that picture that Lou Smit could see it (surely he saw it!?) and think that anyone could have climbed in or out of that window well.

Sherlock, regarding your theory about Burke possibly leaving the window open:
Am I understanding correctly that you think the perpetrator suspended JB from the window latch using the excess cord between her wrist restraints? And as a result the window was opened, and the killer (in a panic) never thought to close it?

I have a few problems with that. Mostly because if you look at the window, the latch doesn't look very large or sturdy. I don't know that it would hold her weight.

The other thing is there's no indication she was hung like that. The cords left no marks on her skin and were loosely tied over the long sleeves of her shirt. If the ligatures had been tied while she was still alive and struggling or if she was suspended we would see signs of struggle/tension. But it appears the ties, like the duct tape, were added after she died or was unconscious and had no real function besides making it appear an intruder needed to restrain her.

 

[Sherlockknows]

About the snow/frost: when police arrived at 6am that morning it was still dark and there was frost on the ground/sidewalks that was completely undisturbed. While the snow was patchy, which could allow someone to avoid it, they still would have left prints in the frost. In the photo Sherlock is referencing (which was taken hours after the frost had melted), we see the clear walkway and the metal grate are separated by a large, undisturbed patch of snow. I can't find that exact picture but hopefully someone will post it again. Frankly it's bizarre to me after seeing that picture that Lou Smit could see it (surely he saw it!?) and think that anyone could have climbed in or out of that window well.

Sherlock, regarding your theory about Burke possibly leaving the window open:
Am I understanding correctly that you think the perpetrator suspended JB from the window latch using the excess cord between her wrist restraints? And as a result the window was opened, and the killer (in a panic) never thought to close it?

I have a few problems with that. Mostly because if you look at the window, the latch doesn't look very large or sturdy. I don't know that it would hold her weight.

The other thing is there's no indication she was hung like that. The cords left no marks on her skin and were loosely tied over the long sleeves of her shirt. If the ligatures had been tied while she was still alive and struggling or if she was suspended we would see signs of struggle/tension. But it appears the ties, like the duct tape, were added after she died or was unconscious and had no real function besides making it appear an intruder needed to restrain her.

I don't think she was hung with her legs dangling because she was standing on the suitcase. Thus no marks on her wrists. I think he was smart enough to work out if he threatened her in to letting him look at her naked he couldn't tie her hands behind her back because she would fall over. If he changed his mind and used the closed window latch beside the opened window then she just wouldn't go anywhere. I don't think he ever meant to strangle her or hit her. I believe there was a scream, and I think if you lie down the sound would bounce off walls, whereas standing up at an open window would let it carry. Of course it could have been a standing Mother's scream. But it was Female I believe or the neighbour would have said different. I know a little about noise and sound, with a small music label. I'm no expert however, but being by the open window would have created less resistance. Also if it was a Mother's scream then the window was already open. Why? Maybe he did lose his keys one time, but surely in a neighbourhood like his you'd make sure it was fixed or put a board over it, irrespective of whether he entered the house normally by the garage or not.


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[ZoriahNZ]

This one?

 

[Sherlockknows]

This one?

Thanks. There is a mark here by the wall and if you skip over by the window there's no snow. It's possible but highly unlikely anyone tried to create footprints or anyone but JR ever broke any glass.

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[ZoriahNZ]

Are you implying that an intruder could successfully bend down and lift that heavy grate balanced on the ball of one foot (while at least two feet away), and then climb down into the resulting narrow hole to get through that basement window, without disturbing the thick layer of snow around it with at least some footprints, palm prints, scuff marks and general impressions of body/clothing?

Sorry but that surely beggars reasonable belief.

Bear in mind that the area of the hole which is 'closest' to the mark you indicated, was cluttered with a spare window frame of some kind (as you can see in the photo upthread). The intruder would have had to enter from a different angle i.e. from the middle or from the right. The area is cramped enough as it is for a 5'8" man (Lou Smit's measurements).

See for yourself:

[video=youtube;7KkcRBbTpmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/video]

Look at how much disturbance Lou Smit (a Ramsey apologist, no less) would have caused as the 'intruder' when he tried to demonstrate how easy it would have been to sneak in that way. Watch where his feet are planted when lifting the grate. Where he places his hand to support himself etc.

And that's not even including the scenario where he exits the same way, since some people claim the intruder could have left via the butler door, somehow still locking it during departure, despite JR claiming he checked all the doors and windows and they were secure when first interviewed by Officer French. Plus we have the thorny extra problem of how would the intruder know the security alarm was switched off and risk using any of the doors leading outside. But then again, I can never fathom how an intruder would supposedly know the grate would be a good way of entry into the house in the first place. Basement doors are often locked/barred from the upstairs side.

 

[Sherlockknows]

Are you implying that an intruder could successfully bend down and lift that heavy grate balanced on the ball of one foot (while at least two feet away), and then climb down into the resulting narrow hole to get through that basement window, without disturbing the thick layer of snow around it with at least some footprints, palm prints, scuff marks and general impressions of body/clothing?

Sorry but that surely beggars reasonable belief.

Bear in mind that the area of the hole which is 'closest' to the mark you indicated, was cluttered with a spare window frame of some kind (as you can see in the photo upthread). The intruder would have had to enter from a different angle i.e. from the middle or from the right. The area is cramped enough as it is for a 5'8" man (Lou Smit's measurements).

See for yourself:

[video=youtube;7KkcRBbTpmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/video]

Look at how much disturbance Lou Smit (a Ramsey apologist, no less) would have caused as the 'intruder' when he tried to demonstrate how easy it would have been to sneak in that way. Watch where his feet are planted when lifting the grate. Where he places his hand to support himself etc.

And that's not even including the scenario where he exits the same way, since some people claim the intruder could have left via the butler door, somehow still locking it during departure, despite JR claiming he checked all the doors and windows and they were secure when first interviewed by Officer French. Plus we have the thorny extra problem of how would the intruder know the security alarm was switched off and risk using any of the doors leading outside. But then again, I can never fathom how an intruder would supposedly know the grate would be a good way of entry into the house in the first place. Basement doors are often locked/barred from the upstairs side.

I am implying the complete opposite. But rather then get banned again, I would kindly ask you to reread the post on the previous page regarding BR being the potential perpetrator. Thank you.


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[BBB167893]

Dave - If you need any help with your revised theory (for when your book gets re-printed) just let me know. I won't even ask for any money.

You really know how to hurt a guy!

 

[Miz Adventure]

I have trouble with the whole 'intruder' theory. Just look at how awkward Smit looks as he tries to gain entry into the Ramsey basement.

WHY would this bogus intruder even WISH to gain entry to this home on a freezing Christmas night? Most people were tucked up nice and snug in their houses at that time.

A darkened window inside a dark basement recess covered with a heavy iron grate would be difficult to see in the dead of night, let alone think it would be a good idea to gain entry that way. I doubt if the break in the window would have been visible anyway, from that angle.

He didn't even know why he wanted to be there really, did he? He obviously hadn't made up his mind if he wanted to sexually molest the child, kidnap her or murder her. He brought nothing with him and improvised as best he could with what was available.

He made himself comfortable for a few hours, scribbling stuff on a notepad, discarding it, then writing another which he didn't like either. He finally finished writing - difficult whilst wearing thick gloves because I doubt if he would have been wearing surgical ones, not on a cold night.

Then putting all the stuff back in their places, nice and neat.

He went up and down stairs, closing doors after himself (JB's bedroom door), luckily there were no creaking stairs in the Ramsey household that night.

And we are actually supposed to believe that this bungling idiot of an intruder managed to escape without leaving a single trace of himself behind?

So who was this mentally defective mastermind? It's a pity the FBI never caught him because they could have learned a lot from him.

 

[BoldBear]

How about we decide the train room entry/exit idea has no merit. Any of the other 6 doorways on the 1st floor would have worked. My favorite is the front door.

 

[Miz Adventure]

How about we decide the train room entry/exit idea has no merit. Any of the other 6 doorways on the 1st floor would have worked. My favorite is the front door.

For those of us who know an intruder didn't do it, there's no reason to trouble our pretty little heads with details like this, is there?

 

[andreww]

Are you implying that an intruder could successfully bend down and lift that heavy grate balanced on the ball of one foot (while at least two feet away), and then climb down into the resulting narrow hole to get through that basement window, without disturbing the thick layer of snow around it with at least some footprints, palm prints, scuff marks and general impressions of body/clothing?

Sorry but that surely beggars reasonable belief.


Bear in mind that the area of the hole which is 'closest' to the mark you indicated, was cluttered with a spare window frame of some kind (as you can see in the photo upthread). The intruder would have had to enter from a different angle i.e. from the middle or from the right. The area is cramped enough as it is for a 5'8" man (Lou Smit's measurements).

See for yourself:

[video=youtube;7KkcRBbTpmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/video]

Look at how much disturbance Lou Smit (a Ramsey apologist, no less) would have caused as the 'intruder' when he tried to demonstrate how easy it would have been to sneak in that way. Watch where his feet are planted when lifting the grate. Where he places his hand to support himself etc.

And that's not even including the scenario where he exits the same way, since some people claim the intruder could have left via the butler door, somehow still locking it during departure, despite JR claiming he checked all the doors and windows and they were secure when first interviewed by Officer French. Plus we have the thorny extra problem of how would the intruder know the security alarm was switched off and risk using any of the doors leading outside. But then again, I can never fathom how an intruder would supposedly know the grate would be a good way of entry into the house in the first place. Basement doors are often locked/barred from the upstairs side.

Add to the fact that he's doing this in broad daylight and there is no suitcase under the window. I think he would have taken a good tumble when his feet hit the Samsonite that he didn't know was there.

 

[Sherlockknows]

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest there was an intruder due to to the photo of the snow, however snow can fall stick on snow in grass already there, and melt on a wet pavement, thus covering tracks. But the majority feel this didn't happen.

The point being made is, is JR, who most if not everyone presumes broke the window, when no one knows, silly enough to do it on the night of the Murder he and his wife premeditated. Without putting footprints in the Snow? Personally I don't think so. He would have removed the cobwebs and moved the grate a little too. In fact if he had done this, there would be more people convinced a break in happened.

Breaking the window would have been an afterthought for me to protect someone, and as he hadn't moved the suitcase he didn't think anything of it. I think it proves one thing though, if you believe the parents did not do it and BR did, then their cover up was not premeditated and a little rushed. They didn't think of everything. They missed the snow, which would have created a whole lot more doubt.

Regarding break ins. There are a massive amount of break ins at Christmas in areas where there is Midnight Mass, but this is usually the 24th of December, and houses are stalked weeks before. The robbers want to know the family go to mass as a family. The idea a robber would rob a house on their own, decide to hurt and kill and child instead and rob nothing, I don't think anyone ever put thus forward.


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[andreww]

I don't think anyone is trying to suggest there was an intruder due to to the photo of the snow, however snow can fall stick on snow in grass already there, and melt on a wet pavement, thus covering tracks. But the majority feel this didn't happen.

The point being made is, is JR, who most if not everyone presumes broke the window, when no one knows, silly enough to do it on the night of the Murder he and his wife premeditated. Without putting footprints in the Snow? Personally I don't think so. He would have removed the cobwebs and moved the grate a little too. In fact if he had done this, there would be more people convinced a break in happened.

Breaking the window would have been an afterthought for me to protect someone, and as he hadn't moved the suitcase he didn't think anything of it. I think it proves one thing though, if you believe the parents did not do it and BR did, then their cover up was not premeditated and a little rushed. They didn't think of everything. They missed the snow, which would have created a whole lot more doubt.

Regarding break ins. There are a massive amount of break ins at Christmas in areas where there is Midnight Mass, but this is usually the 24th of December, and houses are stalked weeks before. The robbers want to know the family go to mass as a family. The idea a robber would rob a house on their own, decide to hurt and kill and child instead and rob nothing, I don't think anyone ever put thus forward.


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The whole thing about the window wasn't premeditated. John never even mentioned it or the suitcase until months later. In my opinion the suitcase was kept under the window but Fleet moved it when looking for glass. He also said that he put one small glass fragment on the window sill, but I'll bet he actually put it on the suitcase. Was the window unlatched? Maybe, but thats the extent of it.

 

[kanzz]

i don't think anyone is trying to suggest there was an intruder due to to the photo of the snow, however snow can fall stick on snow in grass already there, and melt on a wet pavement, thus covering tracks. But the majority feel this didn't happen.

The point being made is, is JR, who most if not everyone presumes broke the window, when no one knows, silly enough to do it on the night of the Murder he and his wife premeditated. Without putting footprints in the snow? Personally i don't think so. He would have removed the cobwebs and moved the grate a little too. In fact if he had done this, there would be more people convinced a break in happened.

Breaking the window would have been an afterthought for me to protect someone, and as he hadn't moved the suitcase he didn't think anything of it. I think it proves one thing though, if you believe the parents did not do it and br did, then their cover up was not premeditated and a little rushed. They didn't think of everything. They missed the snow, which would have created a whole lot more doubt.

Regarding break ins. There are a massive amount of break ins at christmas in areas where there is midnight mass, but this is usually the 24th of december, and houses are stalked weeks before. The robbers want to know the family go to mass as a family. The idea a robber would rob a house on their own, decide to hurt and kill and child instead and rob nothing, i don't think anyone ever put thus forward.


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BBM..

:scream:
JR broke out that window the summer before. Much info is available at acandyrose.com
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-window-grate.htm


1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I can't remember
2 exactly when it was. I've done it maybe twice,
3 maybe three times during the period of time we
4 owned the house. It was a way that I could get in
5 the house if we didn't have a key that was least
6 expensive to repair. It was one single pane of
7 non-insulated glass and.
8 I think that was done one summer I came back late
9 in the evening. Patsy and the kids were delayed,
10 and for some reason I didn't have a key. I don't
11 know why. But usually if I don't drive my car I
12 take a cab or something to the airport and back,
13 and I don't have a key and the house keys are on
14 the key ring.
15 But that was the time, it was in the summer I had
16 come back from a business trip. I think I had a
17 suit on. It was late. It was like about 11:30 at
18 night. It was dark. It was (INAUDIBLE) Amazingly I
19 took the grill off. I think I probably kicked the
20 window with my foot and then reached in and
21 unlatched the window.

 

[Miz Adventure]

John probably felt he HAD to come clean and say he broke the window in the summer because he probably mentioned it to friends at the time.

 

[Sherlockknows]

BBM..

:scream:
JR broke out that window the summer before. Much info is available at acandyrose.com
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-window-grate.htm


1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I can't remember
2 exactly when it was. I've done it maybe twice,
3 maybe three times during the period of time we
4 owned the house. It was a way that I could get in
5 the house if we didn't have a key that was least
6 expensive to repair. It was one single pane of
7 non-insulated glass and.
8 I think that was done one summer I came back late
9 in the evening. Patsy and the kids were delayed,
10 and for some reason I didn't have a key. I don't
11 know why. But usually if I don't drive my car I
12 take a cab or something to the airport and back,
13 and I don't have a key and the house keys are on
14 the key ring.
15 But that was the time, it was in the summer I had
16 come back from a business trip. I think I had a
17 suit on. It was late. It was like about 11:30 at
18 night. It was dark. It was (INAUDIBLE) Amazingly I
19 took the grill off. I think I probably kicked the
20 window with my foot and then reached in and
21 unlatched the window.

Personally I do not believe anything he says, you can if you want.

A point to note from an online comment. I also think if the piece of glass had caught in the web as it did, as you say, six months prior why wouldn't it have fallen and been cleaned up by then?

"Note also the dangling shard of glass just above the cobweb fragment. It's hard to believe anyone cleaning up after the break would have neglected to detach and dispose of that scary piece of broken glass, which could easily fall to the floor at any moment, especially if she were concerned about children playing in the area, as Patsy had claimed."


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