CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #11

[msphilosopher]

This couple really likes to repeat. This is the same photo taken years apart. They renew their vow in the same venue with the same Elvis guy - with the daughters wearing the same dresses.

They repeatedly have children, perhaps? Repeat bankruptcy, repeatedly move.

I don't have a conclusion, just an observation on this habit of seeming to re-enact what they've done before.

jmopinion

Children have repeated poses. And repeated outfits but years apart.

Look closely at the pictures, you think it’s a picture taken the same day but actually years apart. Crazy.


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[enelram]

Still playing catch up. Are these young men/young women out of hospital yet? thank you

As far as we know, all the children were out of hospital about 2 weeks ago. The young ones went to 2 foster homes
and the older group went to assisted living.

 

[SATA]

I am curious whether the Turpin parents ever expected any of their children to be moving out of their home. What was the long term plan? Just keep having children until it was no longer a possibility? It almost feels like one of the animal hoarding cases you hear of where multiple animals are penned up without food and water and unable to get out of the feces and disease. So very sad.

That is a very good question.

The two year old was probably the last baby they would have ever.
Oldest closing in on thirty years old - harder and harder to make them look like children.
Harder and harder to drag the kids to Disneyland, prop them up for photoshoots dressed as children, WHEN THEY ARE BEGINNING TO LOOK OLD!
Creepy, creepy, creepy!!!
What was the perspective?

I think things were getting out of hand for the couple, and I think, if that brave girl who escaped hadn´t notified authorities, there would have been deaths.

 

[Zelda1010]

This is the image that I put together. Is this correct? If so, and if we have proof of 12's age. I will edit it and post it asap.

Between the bankruptcy docs and the initial reporting, yes, I believe SkipperKey is right.

Eta: it was a couple threads ago it was hashed out that #12 would be born in late 2006 or even January 2007 based on bankruptcy docs (found in heavy.com article) and initial report of an 11 year old being freed. I'll find a link if I can. My thanks to confusion and SkipperKey for the links previously

 

[DakotaMayi]

Between the bankruptcy docs and the initial reporting, yes, I believe SkipperKey is right.

Thanks Zelda, I'll see what I can do later

 

[SkipperKey3]

Between the bankruptcy docs and the initial reporting, yes, I believe SkipperKey is right.

Eta: it was a couple threads ago it was hashed out that #12 would be born in late 2006 or even January 2007 based on bankruptcy docs (found in heavy.com article) and initial report of an 11 year old being freed. I'll find a link if I can. My thanks to confusion and SkipperKey for the links previously

The bankrupcy document definitely supports it. I just went and checked many of the MSM initial reports and they are pretty much in agreement that DT/LT rushed to take the restraints of a 14-year-old and an 11-year-old but did not get the restraints off the older sibling before the authorities stopped them. For example:

"When deputies knocked on the Turpins’ door on Sunday morning, the Turpins unchained two of the three children, but one – a 22-year-old – remained chained, according to the DA. An 11-year-old and 14-year-old were unchained as deputies stood at the door, Hestrin said."

http://fox59.com/2018/01/18/califor...h-food-and-allowed-1-shower-per-year-da-says/

Also here is a youtube of the press conference, and he says around the 5:10 mark that two of victims, an 11- and a 14-year-old were unchained while the police were watching at the door.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9gfimgjeXk

 

[SkipperKey3]

I think this is a very good point about #1 and her early years in school. Even before they were homeschooled, even when at least one of them was in a public school, there was an obvious sign of distress-obvious in a way that the other kids noticed and remarked upon it. I don't understand why the teacher didn't contact authorities at this point. My mother has been a public school teacher for 30 years and even 20 years ago, when the eldest daughter would've been in elementary school, teachers were being trained to look for signs of abuse and neglect. It wasn't so long ago that the signs weren't on people's radars. If the child's physical appearance and hygiene were such so that the other children were ridiculing her, then it should've stood out to the teacher as well. We've talked about the regulations that might have been helpful, the oversights that failed them, etc. but this one example stands out the most to me. She was in a public school and seen by multiple people outside of her family almost every day, getting made fun of for her clothing and, for lack of better word, "smell", and nothing was done. At least nothing that we've been made aware of.

I agree, but I think it used to be that many teachers errored on the side of caution. If there was no physical sign such as bruising, then it was better to not ruffle feathers, so to speak. Nobody wanted to risk making the parents mad. It was a pervasive mindset that often overrode the needs of the child, sadly. (I am not going by examples, just a general feeling, so don't take this as strict fact simply because of what I say. It is just MOO.)
But I do agree. I believe the former classmate mentioned not only that she wore the same dirty clothes every day, but also that the pants were definitely too small for her.
The bottom line is that except for extremely clear cases, it's hard to know exactly what to do.

 

[Lulu_la_Nantaise]

I think this is a very good point about #1 and her early years in school. Even before they were homeschooled, even when at least one of them was in a public school, there was an obvious sign of distress-obvious in a way that the other kids noticed and remarked upon it. I don't understand why the teacher didn't contact authorities at this point. My mother has been a public school teacher for 30 years and even 20 years ago, when the eldest daughter would've been in elementary school, teachers were being trained to look for signs of abuse and neglect. It wasn't so long ago that the signs weren't on people's radars. If the child's physical appearance and hygiene were such so that the other children were ridiculing her, then it should've stood out to the teacher as well. We've talked about the regulations that might have been helpful, the oversights that failed them, etc. but this one example stands out the most to me. She was in a public school and seen by multiple people outside of her family almost every day, getting made fun of for her clothing and, for lack of better word, "smell", and nothing was done. At least nothing that we've been made aware of.

BBM.

Maybe no one reacted and that's bad, but I cannot help but think that something was done, that the teacher spoke to the parents, and that's the reason why the Ts decided to homeschool.

 

[4SAM]

Would the parents have their rights removed in California?

 

[SkipperKey3]

BBM.

Maybe no one reacted and that's bad, but I cannot help but think that something was done, that the teacher spoke to the parents, and that's the reason why the Ts decided to homeschool.

That is certainly a possibility. This would mean that their "solution" to the problem was to remove the girl (and consequently the rest of the family) from the public, rather than deal with the actual problem.

 

[SATA]

BBM.

Maybe no one reacted and that's bad, but I cannot help but think that something was done, that the teacher spoke to the parents, and that's the reason why the Ts decided to homeschool.

I think so too.

Even in a small country like Denmark, where I live, there are these "nomadic" families.
They go under the radar of CPS by moving to another Municipality as soon as their cases are being looked into.

There are some horrible examples of year-long and horrid child abuse on that account.

It isn´t that people don´t react (neighbours, teachers etc.), but the system is flawed.
Not enough emphasis is being put into protecting children, it is a world wide problem.

 

[Zelda1010]

That is certainly a possibility. This would mean that their "solution" to the problem was to remove the girl (and consequently the rest of the family) from the public, rather than deal with the actual problem.

After the 2007 grad photo came out, I wondered this. I can't shake the feeling that they are at a community center or church or some public gathering place there. If they were part of a smaller community in TX, maybe someone did say something or become suspicious.

 

[mtnlites]

After the 2007 grad photo came out, I wondered this. I can't shake the feeling that they are at a community center or church or some public gathering place there. If they were part of a smaller community in TX, maybe someone did say something or become suspicious.

I definitely believe someone was asking questions or poking into their business. They up and left for some reason and, in my experience with these kinds of situations, it was because someone was getting too interested in what was going on.

 

[enelram]

I agree, but I think it used to be that many teachers errored on the side of caution. If there was no physical sign such as bruising, then it was better to not ruffle feathers, so to speak. Nobody wanted to risk making the parents mad. It was a pervasive mindset that often overrode the needs of the child, sadly. (I am not going by examples, just a general feeling, so don't take this as strict fact simply because of what I say. It is just MOO.)
But I do agree. I believe the former classmate mentioned not only that she wore the same dirty clothes every day, but also that the pants were definitely too small for her.
The bottom line is that except for extremely clear cases, it's hard to know exactly what to do.

You're pretty much correct about people not wanting to upset the parents. In my negligent, abusive household, my
grandmother complained to my mother many times (that I heard) about me being so skinny, pale, unhealthy looking.
My mother always came back with, "Well she won't eat....yada yada. Whenever we kids went to visit this grandmother and her daughter, we were always hungry and practically begged for anything to eat even yesterdays leftovers spoiling
on the stove. My mother was always embarassed by this and forbid us from asking for or accepting food from them.
Finally after years of my grandma complaining about my health and skinny appearance, my mother took me to an old country doctor who basically said, "she could be anemic, here take these big pills." that was the end of it and we moved many states away after that.
My point is it is hard to know what to do.

 

[PetDetective]

Would the parents have their rights removed in California?

Oh absolutely!


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[rsd1200]

That is certainly a possibility. This would mean that their "solution" to the problem was to remove the girl (and consequently the rest of the family) from the public, rather than deal with the actual problem.

If so, that shows that they found a solution to prying eyes. If they'd been faced with it, they'd have most likely found a solution to any kind of oversight, or prying eyes, no matter the situation. Where there is a will, there is a way. The Ts would have just packed up, left no forwarding address, and isolated themselves further.

 

[enelram]

Yes, SkipperKey, I have serious concerns about all of the children also and The lifelong scars they will forever carry.
Without really caring people to guide them in their lives, I really wonder what their outcomes will be.
Maybe someone with many years of social services work, someone who has seen horrific abuse cases could predict
what will happen to them.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Yes, SkipperKey, I have serious concerns about all of the children also and The lifelong scars they will forever carry.
Without really caring people to guide them in their lives, I really wonder what their outcomes will be.
Maybe someone with many years of social services work, someone who has seen horrific abuse cases could predict
what will happen to them.

I don't think it would be very easy to predict. No two people are exactly alike and no two people will respond the exact same way. There may be guidelines, but in the end, we are dealing with 13 distinct individuals, even if they haven't really been treated as such in their lives until now.
And that's the key. Don't generalize with the siblings, don't gloss over them. Treat each one of them as separate, special, beautiful individuals.

 

[rsd1200]

But how would the grandparents and DT's brother and wife 'excuse' or find anything positive in a dozen skinny, underfed children? Those children were all neglected looking in those photos with the relatives. DT's family looked
the other way if they didn't speak up or intervene. there were 4 grown family members that HAD to have noticed.
I think this is why Dt's brother had no comment and his office said he was on a leave of absence. He was too
ashamed to face the media. Dt's parents are too ashamed now also since the charges were filed. And they should
be.

They may be ashamed that they DIDN'T realize. Again, as I said with my ex, and I know he was a grown man, but people were around him daily, family, and close friends, and he was obviously very thin, but no one realized. He came very close to leaving this world, because of the malnutrition. I can't remember what he weighed, but it probably wasn't much over 90 lbs, but to break a femur, from a trip and fall, you have to be in pretty bad shape. He was so confused from the malnutrition, that he kept forgetting they'd finally had to remove the leg, they'd have to re-tell him every day. He'd also push back the covers, and be horrified, every day, for quite some time. He got up one night, forgetting the leg was gone, and broke the other one. I think they used soft restraints, at night, for a bit, after that. He was gone two years later. Proper nutrition did, eventually, alleviate, his confusion, and his cognitive skills did come back to some degree, over the two year span.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't think it would be very easy to predict. No two people are exactly alike and no two people will respond the exact same way. There may be guidelines, but in the end, we are dealing with 13 distinct individuals, even if they haven't really been treated as such in their lives until now.
And that's the key. Don't generalize with the siblings, don't gloss over them. Treat each one of them as separate, special, beautiful individuals.

Agree. Although I hope they can maintain contact, I believe that they need independence. Especially the adults. They need to learn to adult, and adulting can be fun, but it can also be hard. I think the adults need to focus on themselves for now, and the children need to focus on being children. Just my take.