Found Deceased CA - Alex Holden, 25, Sacramento, 31 Dec 2019

[SAMS]

Has it been established how far their place is from the bar he left from? If he was planning to leave wouldnt he charge his cell? "He leaves at 2:30, his phone dies at 2:30"? MOO

 

[Seajay]

I too thought this happened NYE/Jan. 1. I guess it was a common mistake. Thanks for clearing that up.

The search really does have to be comprehensive and no place to look should be off limits. People have been found in trees, in deer blinds, in water tanks, on rooftops, in chimneys, in vacant houses. JMO

 

[mrstfs]

Has it been established how far their place is from the bar he left from? If he was planning to leave wouldnt he charge his cell? "He leaves at 2:30, his phone dies at 2:30"? MOO

From google maps it appears that the bar is roughly a 10 minute walk to his apartment. MOO

 

[mrstfs]

The thing is, I don’t think we know if his phone battery ran out, if he turned the phone off, or if it was broken somehow. We just know the phone “died”. Please correct me if this is wrong.

 

[onegiantarm]

I wish that we had some indication of how intense this ‘argument’ was because it would give us much better insight into his possible state of mind, and whether self-harm or misadventure was more likely. Argument is so non-descript. If this was a huge blowup, it’s possible that he was very upset - obviously he was upset enough to supposedly leave to sleep at another house in the middle of the night.

If it was a major argument, I'm sure the neighbors in their apartment building must have heard them fighting. Maybe they've spoken to LE about it.

 

[Vail]

The thing is, I don’t think we know if his phone battery ran out, if he turned the phone off, or if it was broken somehow. We just know the phone “died”. Please correct me if this is wrong.

I believe the difference is a powered off phone can still ping, whereas a drained phone will not. This link has a lot of great info on call records and mobile forensics Call Detail Record - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Someone had said upthread that the ring is also different when a phone is off vs dead

 

[Alethea]

Here is the Apple FAQ about using Find my Iphone/AirPods.

AirPods need to be connected to an Apple device to use "Find my AirPods." So it sounds like if the phone is lost or dead, you will not be able to locate the AirPods separately. I was hoping that wasn't the case.

Find my AirPods:

If your AirPods are lost

Find my iPhone:

If your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch is lost or stolen

 

[mrstfs]

I believe the difference is a powered off phone can still ping, whereas a drained phone will not. This link has a lot of great info on call records and mobile forensics Call Detail Record - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Someone had said upthread that the ring is also different when a phone is off vs dead

Hmmm I’m following a couple other cases where LE could not determine dead battery vs turned off phone. Does anyone know if we have a verified cell phone expert here? I couldn’t find one listed.

 

[Alethea]

Hmmm I’m following a couple other cases where LE could not determine dead battery vs turned off phone. Does anyone know if we have a verified cell phone expert here? I couldn’t find one listed.

Articles from Slate and the Washington Post say you normally cannot track a mobile phone if it is turned off. Here it's in the context of a trojan horse app from the NSA that purportedly can track phones when they're off. But the standard answer seems to be no, you can't track a phone when it is off because it is not powered on to emit either cell or GPS signals.

NSA Can Reportedly Track Phones Even When They're Turned Off

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Just read this whole thread after a Sacramento friend posted his story - so sad, and I'm so shocked at how long it's been. I did a street view walkthrough of the maps - so many ATM cameras, businesses etc. near the bars mentioned - I really hope LE has all that and is combing through it. How sad. Do we know if his phone was on his personal plan or Amazon's? If it's Amazon's property, they might be able to volunteer the data, and not be constrained as LE is with regard to a possibly voluntarily missing adult's records.

 

[PommyMommy]

Just read this whole thread after a Sacramento friend posted his story - so sad, and I'm so shocked at how long it's been. I did a street view walkthrough of the maps - so many ATM cameras, businesses etc. near the bars mentioned - I really hope LE has all that and is combing through it. How sad. Do we know if his phone was on his personal plan or Amazon's? If it's Amazon's property, they might be able to volunteer the data, and not be constrained as LE is with regard to a possibly voluntarily missing adult's records.

LE has his phone records but they only provide information up to 2:30 a.m. MOO

National Center For Missing and Endangered, Inc.
Sacramento police detectives met with family members and Alex’s girlfriend regarding the investigation. Detectives said that scouting of the American River is taking place daily; police now have access to all of Alex’s phone records; and know of his locations until 2:30 a.m. local time.

 

[carbuff]

I believe the difference is a powered off phone can still ping, whereas a drained phone will not. This link has a lot of great info on call records and mobile forensics Call Detail Record - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Someone had said upthread that the ring is also different when a phone is off vs dead

The times I've used FindMyPhone (Apple) to find mine or Mr. Carbuff's phone, it has been able to distinguish how the phone went out of contact--turned off once, out of range a couple of times, battery dead once. I don't know whether that's always true or whether it's true of other brands of phone.

Phones have a lot of stuff going on in the background. "Off" doesn't seem to be really "off."

 

[UnderstandBlue]

The times I've used FindMyPhone (Apple) to find mine or Mr. Carbuff's phone, it has been able to distinguish how the phone went out of contact--turned off once, out of range a couple of times, battery dead once. I don't know whether that's always true or whether it's true of other brands of phone.

Phones have a lot of stuff going on in the background. "Off" doesn't seem to be really "off."

I have two devices off and two on - this is the difference. They will not send the alert sound to the off devices.

 

[mrstfs]

I have two devices off and two on - this is the difference. They will not send the alert sound to the off devices.

Thanks for this. Can you tell from this how the phone went off?

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Thanks for this. Can you tell from this how the phone went off?

Not that I can tell. I just powered them off and this is what I see.

 

[MJPeony]

At what point does LE consider a missing person missing under “suspicious circumstances”? I get that he’s an adult and there is nothing specific (like a bloody shoe print) that points to something nefarious. But at what point will they pursue it more aggressively? And by more aggressively, I mean taking people in for questioning (have they done that? Friends he was with, etc?), or warrants for the liquor store video, or taking things out of the apartment in bags kind of thing.

I think about many other cases where there is not this same “well they are an adult and we have no reason to suspect anything” mentality. At least that is the impression I’m getting.

I do not at ALL believe he just wanted to go-and stay- off the grid, nor do I believe he has a mental illness that made him want to disappear, nor do I believe he’s got amnesia. Nor do I believe he’s gotten lost in Yosemite. I don’t have a great theory at this point (I have a couple but they aren’t great), but I absolutely don’t think he went missing voluntary, and I very sadly don’t think the outcome will be good if he is found.



MOO.

 

[mrstfs]

At what point does LE consider a missing person missing under “suspicious circumstances”? I get that he’s an adult and there is nothing specific (like a bloody shoe print) that points to something nefarious. But at what point will they pursue it more aggressively? And by more aggressively, I mean taking people in for questioning (have they done that? Friends he was with, etc?), or warrants for the liquor store video, or taking things out of the apartment in bags kind of thing.

I think about many other cases where there is not this same “well they are an adult and we have no reason to suspect anything” mentality. At least that is the impression I’m getting.

I do not at ALL believe he just wanted to go-and stay- off the grid, nor do I believe he has a mental illness that made him want to disappear, nor do I believe he’s got amnesia. Nor do I believe he’s gotten lost in Yosemite. I don’t have a great theory at this point (I have a couple but they aren’t great), but I absolutely don’t think he went missing voluntary, and I very sadly don’t think the outcome will be good if he is found.



MOO.

This is an excellent question and one that has bugged me on so many other cases here.

From the article below, it sounds like in this case, they need evidence of foul play/criminal activity first. It seems like that’s going to have to come in from a tip at this point or body found. JMO

Fundraiser Being Held for Family of Missing Alex Holden; Friends Update on Search

 

[mrstfs]

At what point does LE consider a missing person missing under “suspicious circumstances”? I get that he’s an adult and there is nothing specific (like a bloody shoe print) that points to something nefarious. But at what point will they pursue it more aggressively? And by more aggressively, I mean taking people in for questioning (have they done that? Friends he was with, etc?), or warrants for the liquor store video, or taking things out of the apartment in bags kind of thing.

I think about many other cases where there is not this same “well they are an adult and we have no reason to suspect anything” mentality. At least that is the impression I’m getting.

I do not at ALL believe he just wanted to go-and stay- off the grid, nor do I believe he has a mental illness that made him want to disappear, nor do I believe he’s got amnesia. Nor do I believe he’s gotten lost in Yosemite. I don’t have a great theory at this point (I have a couple but they aren’t great), but I absolutely don’t think he went missing voluntary, and I very sadly don’t think the outcome will be good if he is found.



MOO.

MJ- look at this example case that just came across on my local news. After all of these conditions, they still can’t tell if foul play is involved?? Years Later, San Diego Man’s 2015 Disappearance Still a Mystery

 

[MJPeony]

MJ- look at this example case that just came across on my local news. After all of these conditions, they still can’t tell if foul play is involved?? Years Later, San Diego Man’s 2015 Disappearance Still a Mystery

Wow that’s a long time with no leads. So sad. And one would think the fact he was dependent on medication would have elevated his case even more. At least he got coverage on the TV show Disappeared.... but that didn’t help either.

IMO, if someone goes missing and it is uncharacteristic by all friends’ and family accounts, and they no longer show record of credit card use, or bank activity, or cell phone usage, then it’s “suspicious circumstances”. After following many of these cases, I’m coming to the conclusion that they way cases are elevated or not often has a lot to do with the specific LE department.




MOO.

 

[cluciano63]

OT but one very strange case is the disappearance of Bryce Laspisa in S. Ca...since 2013.