CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[Stragnet]

H

That doesn't give LE the right to search his cell phone records

My comment was in regards to obtaining Barbara’s records.

 

[Curiousobserver]

MOO- Let's assume that this is a crime and you are trying to cover it up by concocting a story about being lost in the desert.

Why would you describe her attire as he did? I mean it almost makes the whole story so unbelievable it just might be true.

 

[Tealgrove]

Perhaps there never was a beer bottle/mug.
It then not being found makes sense.

Exactly

 

[kay74]

It is not a hike. They went on a walk. This was emphasised to me.

Do you know if her son is on good terms with her husband and if he is going to come there and look?

 

[mrstfs]

MOO- Let's assume that this is a crime and you are trying to cover it up by concocting a story about being lost in the desert.

Why would you describe her attire as he did? I mean it almost makes the whole story so unbelievable it just might be true.

Perhaps because he conveniently has a photo with her in that exact outfit. *shrug*

 

[Ravenmoon]

JMO
I just can't get past LE spending the time, resources and taking the risks (heatstroke, injury to search personnel, dogs, etc.) with such a huge and lengthy (by some standards) search in this area if they didn't have some indication that she had been there.

I am wondering if metal detectors would be helpful in trying to locate the infamous beer can (if it was in a can?)

Our search and rescue are amazing. They have a hard time giving up on any possibility of finding someone . They will keep at it until they firmly believe that there is zero chance of finding her. As unlikely as it is that she is alive , there is still a small chance . We have seen it before in similar cases and conditions.

 

[kkdj]

I don’t think there are many people around that area in the summer and during the hottest part of the day. They weren’t really hiking, just taking a walk. 1 mile in, 1 mile out. Probably took them about an hour with stops to take pics and collect rocks, etc.

Were they heading to another destination and just stopped there for a little bit? Maybe eat some lunch, stretch their legs? It just seems like an odd spot to stop to me.

 

[10ofRods]

Is there a photo/ map, by chance, that shows where he was standing in relationship to her position as she rounded the bend? (Oh and the camper spot? I’m not greedy!)

Was their camper, and “the bend” at/near a crossroad? What distance are we talking from his position to hers when last seen? A few hundred feet? A kilometer?

Another thought: I suppose this is an area that is somewhat common to hike. But that particular dirt road? Is it a road a trucker would take? Are there nearby cell towers that would have picked up specific pings?

He hasn’t reported a specific vehicle that was in the area at the time of her disappearance right? Again, is there a crossroad nearby? I suppose there could be a reasonable explanation why he would miss a vehicle passing...perhaps a vehicle was parked near their camper, and person was waiting there?

(Just rambling here, I’ve most likely missed these answers, feel free to scroll)

No, there have been no photos about where he was actually standing. The twitter feed of the SBCS and one SAR organization are the only photos I know of - and that has been really helpful to me in locating where they were (it appears to be the Granite Hills area).

Kelbaker Road and Hidden Hill Road are the staging area and where the 911 dispatcher sent the original responders. You can see the Granite Hills in the distance on google maps, but the recent search photos of course show the searchers closer to those hills (and further from where the RV was apparently parked). There's not much room to pull out there - but it's possible he pulled onto an area on little-used Hidden Hill Road.

My hunch is that he did not want to take the dirt road (Hidden Hill) with the new truck and trailer. It would definitely had been dirty/dusty if he had. And possibly dinged, lots of rocks on the road. It's almost a trail rather than a road.

Kelbaker is a short cut to Las Vegas for many living out that way. I do not believe semi trucks are allowed, but there would be many box trucks and pickups and all manner of people on a Friday afternoon (nothing like steady traffic, but way less desolate than today, on a Monday morning). I keep wondering if she was struck by a car and that person then hid her. Anything is possible at this point.

Where they are searching yesterday and today is a mile or more away from where the RV would have been parked (IMO). The searchers are definitely closer to the place where the photo appears to be taken (but sure, it could be an earlier photo from a similar place - however, I do not think she looks younger in it, it was part of a longer distance photo of the Granite Hills - the hills themselves are at an elevation of about 600', and the road is near sea level). It's a blurry photo. The dogs were let loose yesterday near the hills (I'm sure they've taken them all along the route). If they used the Granite Hills Trail, then they may have walked more than 2 miles round trip.

There have to be some cell towers in the vicinity (this area is not far from the I-40) and Mr Thomas used his phone to call police, IIRC. There aren't a lot out in the middle of the preserve though. So if they were really in Kelso Dunes, probably less cell data.

We don't know how far they were from the road when they separated. If their original plan was to walk 2 miles out, then that gives quite a range of distances. I'm certain the first report I read had him stopping to take a picture of a "lake" which had me puzzled, but he has stated it was a "rock formation." I am now thinking this was a 4 mile round trip hike.

It's possible someone was waiting at their brand new RV when he got back, although apparently no signs of attempted break-in, he doesn't mention them, police don't mention that.

I'm rambling too. I think they have cadaver dogs (as well as other dogs) out there at this point. And if they believe she may have sought shade, then the nearby rocks have to be scaled and searched. "Nearby" could mean a big distance.

If she went on alone to the RV, that tells me she was seeking shelter/shade/toilet. If drinking only beer, she would have been dehydrated but definitely could have needed the restroom. If true that she had no phone of her own, then she was alone and vulnerable if someone pulled up while she was hanging around the RV.

My own husband says he doesn't buy that RT left the key to the truck/RV under a rock. I think that even if Thomas did leave the key under a rock, it's really possible she no longer remembered exactly which rock. We both find it unlikely that there were many/any big rocks. He says the key was still there when he returned, but my DH says he had it in his pocket like any normal man would do - the risk of the truck being stolen is real. Thomas says it was so that either of them could return when they liked, but why not just hand the keys to the person who is returning first? At any rate, no where along Kelbaker are there any fist-sized rocks just hanging out at the side of the road, he must have stuck it further back from the road - hence, making it hard to find.

So she's waiting in the heat, with no water...for how long? That's what I want to know. Woman in bikini hanging out side of Kelbaker Road for...a while...is vulnerable. If she wandered off, wouldn't she wander toward her husband? He makes it sound as if he was just a little bit behind her - but, people lose track of time pretty easily.

 

[Tallulah. Lakkey]

This is an amazing forum. I am so thankful for all of your thoughtfulness regarding my aunt Barbara. (She is married to my mom's brother.) I know her nephew is here as well. I am praying for your dad's health...I believe she was intending to fly out today to visit him. I'm so sad that isn't happening. We are still hoping and praying for answers in all of this! Keep thinking through every scenario, friends. It gives me hope.

It's nice to see you here @LaurieRaquel <modsnip>. I sincerely hope there is a good outcome with your aunt. Xoxo

 

[Dion]

I’ve hiked in that area although not that exact place.

Has anyone reported seeing the couple walking on the trail? Or along the road, like when they were getting out of the car?

I would think someone would remember seeing a 69 year old woman hiking in a bikini, as that would be rather unusual. Most desert hikers would wear loosely-fitting light colored clothing that covered most of their skin. I usually wear short sleeves and loose, light hiking pants but I have hiked with people in my group who wear loose, long-sleeved shirts

When you go hiking in the desert, do you leave tracks behind?

Would searchers/LE be able to tell if there were two people there, by looking for footprints?

 

[Micheline]

MOO- Let's assume that this is a crime and you are trying to cover it up by concocting a story about being lost in the desert.

Why would you describe her attire as he did? I mean it almost makes the whole story so unbelievable it just might be true.

Because she was in her bikini when she was still alive, just not in Mojave desert?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Our search and rescue are amazing. They have a hard time giving up on any possibility of finding someone . They will keep at it until they firmly believe that there is zero chance of finding her. As unlikely as it is that she is alive , there is still a small chance . We have seen it before in similar cases and conditions.

Thank you for the local insight!

I hope that dedicated search and rescue group stays safe and hydrated during their searches.
I also hope to see 'Found Alive' in the header of this thread soon and that Barbara gets to tell an amazing survival story!

 

[lonetraveler]

Thank you- I love a local who can give us an idea of the terrain. I have never been to the Mojave Desert and I live on the east coast, so our landscapes are quite different for sure. I appreciate this information.

I appreciate the information as well. I too live on the East Coast and I don't do deserts.

 

[10ofRods]

I live in the Mojave Desert . We are on a mesa that is between Joshua tree and Lucerne Valley . We have mountain lions. We have bob cats. We have deer.. but, they usually stay closer to the hilly areas. We also sit on the back end of Big Bear.. so we get an occasional Black Bear. I don't know if the animals are the same in the particular area that she went missing from.

You can check out the area on google maps - it's really different from being on a mesa. It's not far from the I-40. Original dispatch was to intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hill Roads. Approximately 2000 feet above sea level with the Granite Hills rising about 600-700 feet above that - definitely not mountainous).

 

[dbdb11]

IMO Barbara was never there.

MOO
Robbie has been through photos with LE. They are time stamped. They prove Barb and Rob were there. Or there would be no search, and Robbie would probably be a much more serious suspect because he has already said there are photos.
This has been stated previously.

 

[Lilibet]

MOO
Robbie has been through photos with LE. They are time stamped. They prove Barb and Rob were there. Or there would be no search, and Robbie would probably be a much more serious suspect because he has already said there are photos.
This has been stated previously.

Thanks! I believe your original posts were removed pending you becoming a VI. It’s possible some were overlooked when mods reposted them. I don’t recall reading about the photos, but there’s a lot of info to remember. Feel free to repeat stuff.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Hoping that Granite Peak and the area around is searched. Many people like to get out and stretch when they are coming through.. I am sure searchers are aware of the area, but ..it is one that I would pick to search . It is about 10 miles off of Kelbaker Road.

when You can check out the area on google maps - it's really different from being on a mesa. It's not far from the I-40. Original dispatch was to intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hill Roads. Approximately 2000 feet above sea level with the Granite Hills rising about 600-700 feet above that - definitely not mountainous).

Your information is accurate, however.. there are canyons, washes and rock formations that are quite deceiving when viewing from a map. A young couple was lost in Joshua Tree last year in a canyon between rock formations. The searchers came close to them several times. It is SO easy to get lost when seeking shelter.

 

[Lilibet]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I doubt LE would be searching this extensively if they didn’t have time-stamped photo evidence that Barbara was actually there. But I’ve been wrong before.

 

[IceIce9]

When you go hiking in the desert, do you leave tracks behind?

Would searchers/LE be able to tell if there were two people there, by looking for footprints?

If it is windy at all the sand, like a dust, gets blown around which is one reason you normally wear more clothing rather than less. Your exposed skin can feel sand-blasted and raw even if there is a fairly mild breeze. The sand sticks to your skin and feels gritty.

(Yes I know, it is a DRY heat but you still perspire and sand sticks to you)

If there is shade near the trail (relative shade, such as would be in the shadow of a sequoia or Joshua tree, or other scrub)the ground could possibly be moister, maybe moist enough to leave prints. Maybe.

But a hiking trail or path in the desert is likely to be hard scrabble and dry so it would be difficult to see tracks or footprints. MOO

 

[Stragnet]

I want to go back to the travel cup of beer or beer can or bottle that Barbara was last seen carrying.

If Barbara made it back to the RV I would expect the travel cup to be accounted for. Maybe on the step outside, in the vehicle etc. If she made it that far but didn't go inside I would think the travel cup would be around somewhere.

If she were abducted, I'm thinking the travel cup would have dropped near the road and it would have been found by now. This is the least likeliest scenario IMO.

If Barbara, fell off a rock and into a crevice, that mug should be somewhere. I don't think she'd be climbing rocks with a mug in her hand. I'd put it down, climb up and then come back down. If she fell between rocks or something, that mug should be somewhere visible unless, of course, it fell in along with her.

This travel mug should have been found by now if Barbara was anywhere in the vicinity carrying the travel mug. As each day passes, we keep hearing that "no sign of Barbara was found".

Where is that damn travel mug?

I'm having a hard time believing how this all went down, and the details, when that Travel Mug is nowhere to be seen. It's a small thing, but it bothers me. I feel like Columbo. I'm scratching my head and I'm focused on one small detail that isn't making sense.

MOO

That is, if she disappeared as he laid out. Agreed that the mug should be around somewhere if the scenario occurred as he stated.