CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

[GordianKnot]

What is done, is done.

True.

But nobody here knows what's been done.

So there's that.

JMO.

 

[Russian Blue]

What is done, is done.

Interesting that you would use that phrase. This was the exact quote from an interview with Grandpa about little DeOrr Kunz when he was being questioned for the umtenth time by Klien investigators.

 

[RANCH]

An abductor could pick up the travel container.

With the heat out, how long would any spilled liquid even show on pavement?

Good point Paul. I'm wondering what kind of evidence has to be left behind when someone is abducted out in the desert.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

I’m focusing on probabilities, not possibilities.

I think it is far more probable than not that she was not abducted.

That's the difference between us then.

Just because something is the most probable doesn't mean it's what actually happened.

I need more information before going towards a single direction in this case. JMO

 

[ACE422]

Are there rock formations very near to where she was last reportedly seen where she may have slipped through a crevice? Heat related illnesses can cause serious disorientation and changes in mental status. RT mentioned a cave they had explored earlier. Is it possible she may have wandered off into a tight space somewhere? Either from being confounded state or in search of shade? Searchers can miss someone quite easily depending on the type of terrain.

 

[MassGuy]

That's the difference between us then.

Just because something is the most probable doesn't mean it's what actually happened.

I need more information before going towards a single direction in this case. JMO

If you don’t try and figure out what happened, then what’s the point?

We could spend days going over all the possibilities, but if we focus on what the evidence and past cases tell us, then we are far more likely to end up being right.

 

[RANCH]

If you don’t try and figure out what happened, then what’s the point?

We could spend days going over all the possibilities, but if we focus on what the evidence and past cases tell us, then we are far more likely to end up being right.

What makes you think I don't want to figure out what happened?

I certainly could care less if I'm right or wrong about my ideas on what could have happened to Barbara. I'm merely speculating and asking a few questions to further understand what could have happened. JMO

 

[MimosaMornings]

“From what BT's family has said as posted here from a VI, she was 'alive' the week before she vanished, and had spoken to her very ill brother in Hong Kong.”

Spoken on the phone? What phone showed up on the call? Her husband’s cell number since Barbara didn’t have a cell phone?

Unusual to take a trip in the desert with limited cell service with a gravely ill brother necessitating a sudden trip to Hong Kong. JMO

 

[PaulR]

If you don’t try and figure out what happened, then what’s the point?

We could spend days going over all the possibilities, but if we focus on what the evidence and past cases tell us, then we are far more likely to end up being right.

The problem is that we don't know what happened to Paul Miller and Bill Ewasko.

 

[sorrell skye]

Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear.

Regardless, I’m not entertaining that idea.

Some lady goes for a hike, her husband loses sight of her for a brief period of time, and some random abductor happens upon her.

Naw.

Say what? I will tell you that when I was in a situation involving intense fear because of a life-threatening situation, my extremities DID NOT go limp.

To the contrary, my senses were on high alert and every move I made was made to ensure my survival - just like in Gavin Debecker's book "The Gift of Fear".

An animal rose up within me and kept me alive, did things that I don't think I would have been capable of doing if my life had not been endangered.

Someone who claims "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" has never been in a life-threatening situation, IMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Say what? I will tell you that when I was in a situation involving intense fear because of a life-threatening situation, my extremities DID NOT go limp.

To the contrary, my senses were on high alert and every move I made was made to ensure my survival - just like in Gavin Debecker's book "The Gift of Fear".

An animal rose up within me and kept me alive, did things that I don't think I would have been capable of doing if my life had not been endangered.

Someone who claims "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" has never been in a life-threatening situation, IMO.

I’m stating a scientific fact.

Also, a tendency doesn’t mean “invariably occurs.”

One does not have to be in a life threatening situation to understand the common physiological reactions to fear.

 

[wary]

The problem is that we don't know what happened to Paul Miller and Bill Ewasko.

In those two cases, I’d bet a fair amount of disposable income on ‘misadventure.’ It seems less likely here, but if that’s what it turned out to be, I wouldn’t feel surprised. I also wouldn’t feel at all surprised if it were foul play by someone she knew.

Anything else, including the Las Vegas scenario, would surprise me.

 

[GordianKnot]

If you don’t try and figure out what happened, then what’s the point?

We could spend days going over all the possibilities, but if we focus on what the evidence and past cases tell us, then we are far more likely to end up being right.

Having consulted with my main man William of Occam, I agree with you about this.

What strikes me about this case is that the evidence here is primarily the lack of evidence. Paradoxically.

There's no evidence of BT having been abducted, per LE.
Therefore, they don't believe she's been abducted.
It's a logical approach.

LE has also said they've found no trace of BT out there during their searches.
That being the case, has LE concluded that they don't believe she was ever there?
I think they likely have.

I'm wondering what LE's next steps in this case are going to be...and in what direction those steps are headed.

JMO.

 

[RANCH]

Say what? I will tell you that when I was in a situation involving intense fear because of a life-threatening situation, my extremities DID NOT go limp.

To the contrary, my senses were on high alert and every move I made was made to ensure my survival - just like in Gavin Debecker's book "The Gift of Fear".

An animal rose up within me and kept me alive, did things that I don't think I would have been capable of doing if my life had not been endangered.

Someone who claims "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" has never been in a life-threatening situation, IMO.

Do soldiers always go limp and drop their weapons when in intense combat?

 

[MassGuy]

Having consulted with my main man William of Occam, I agree with you about this.

What strikes me about this case is that the evidence here IS the lack of evidence. Paradoxically.

There's no evidence of BT having been abducted, per LE.
Therefore, they don't believe she's been abducted.
It's a logical approach.

LE has also said they've found no trace of BT out there during their searches.
That being the case, has LE concluded that they don't believe she was ever there?
I think they likely have.

I'm wondering what LE's next steps in this case are going to be...and in what direction those steps are headed.

JMO.

I have no doubt that they’re way ahead of us. They know what they’re dealing with.

Kidnapping makes absolutely no sense, even if there was some evidence to that effect.

No one gets that lucky, not with the elements we have here.

 

[sorrell skye]

I’m stating a scientific fact.

Also, a tendency doesn’t mean “invariably occurs.”

One does not have to be in a life threatening situation to understand the common physiological reactions to fear.

Can you provide a link to peer-reviewed studies that supports your claim?

 

[Steelslady]

Well, according to RT, 'they' were carrying a gallon jug of water, and a pack presumably within which was his camera, and maybe a cell phone. And BT had a beer in her hand (container it was in is unknown), and the key to their truck and camper was not with them, but hidden under a rock nearby the rig so that whichever of them returned first could get in to it.

BT's attire, whether RT also was drinking a beer, what his attire was, or anything else is pure hearsay since LE has not issued any statements on any of that. They have stated that they searched for her within several miles of rough terrain with all resources at hand unflinchinly in and around the area where RT said she vanished for over a week in 90-120 degree heat in the middle of the desert. JMO.

So why did they need to bury the keys under a rock? That never made any sense to me, seeing that they were together for the majority of the hike.

 

[sorrell skye]

Do soldiers always go limp and drop their weapons when in intense combat?

Thank You. Of course they don't.

The claim that "Extremities tend to go limp in situations involving intense fear" is an opinion, and not a fact based on science.

 

[MassGuy]

Do soldiers always go limp and drop their weapons when in intense combat?

Ha! That’s different though.

Some do, but most revert to their training and muscle memory.

Your training conditions you to ignore your fear, and do what has to be done.

 

[PaulR]

Can you provide a link to peer-reviewed studies that supports your claim?

Not MassGuy but how about this:

This Is Your Body on Fear

Like an animal trying to avoid being eaten by a predator, all of your body’s resources get diverted toward one goal: staying alive. Your heart rate and blood pressure increase, you breathe faster and your muscles tense up. Your pupils dilate so you can see the threat more clearly, says Evans.