CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4

[Stripehaven]

If the whole trail looks like that, it would be pretty hard to inadvertently wander off it. I wonder if it stays relatively flat, or if it eventually has drops on the side. I guess someone could trip or fall and then maybe roll off the trail. Distances in the desert tend to look shorter than they actually are, so I wonder if BT was further away from RT than he thought when she disappeared.

I recall @sroad, who visited the area, saying the trail was quite obvious.

 

[LietKynes]

The more I think about this case, the more I think the evidence stacks up for an unlikely but possible "death by misadventure in the desert." But I don't know what LE knows (or what family members know). There seems to be some suspicion on RT, right? If those who suspect him want a full picture, they'll look into what's known about finances, that's for sure.

BBM

Did RT have a life insurance policy on Barbara ?
Anyone know ?

 

[10ofRods]

I don't think the Mojave Desert has been that cool at noon since June. This is a hotter than average summer and it's over 100 at 10 am. But it does matter exactly where they're at. It was 117 about 30 miles away towards the east and it was 107 about 30 miles away towards the north and it was 110 about 20 miles north from Kelbaker Rd according to accuweather. It was 110 in Bagdad California which is to the south. I'm a weather buff.

No, it was in fact registered at Amboy and at Kelso that the temp was only 104-105 that day (and the next). This probably played a factor in a longer search. Amboy is the closest weather station (I think NOAA lists one more - I checked them all as soon as I heard about the case, which I believe was the same day she went missing). The elevation where they were at was higher than at Amboy, so it could have been a degree cooler. Amboy is at around 800' if memory serves, but Kelso (both of these are "ghost towns") is at 2000' and the trailhead to the Granite Hills (not too far down the road from where Barbara disappeared) is a bit higher than 2000' - so the elevation near Hidden Hills and Kelbaker is probably 1000' or so.

Anyway, the next week, SAR personnel tweeted that the temps were higher (above 110). So they must have been lower when they first started looking.

It's not hotter than average throughout the desert communities (thankfully) but it sure did get hot last week. Cadiz has an actual NOAA reporting weather station, I think. It's currently 100F at 11:30 am. Not too bad by desert standards - I'll check throughout today and see how high it goes.

 

[moonriverfarm]

Does anyone have a photo of the actual place the RV was parked?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

No, it was in fact registered at Amboy and at Kelso that the temp was only 104-105 that day (and the next). This probably played a factor in a longer search. Amboy is the closest weather station (I think NOAA lists one more - I checked them all as soon as I heard about the case, which I believe was the same day she went missing). The elevation where they were at was higher than at Amboy, so it could have been a degree cooler. Amboy is at around 800' if memory serves, but Kelso (both of these are "ghost towns") is at 2000' and the trailhead to the Granite Hills (not too far down the road from where Barbara disappeared) is a bit higher than 2000' - so the elevation near Hidden Hills and Kelbaker is probably 1000' or so.

Anyway, the next week, SAR personnel tweeted that the temps were higher (above 110). So they must have been lower when they first started looking.

It's not hotter than average throughout the desert communities (thankfully) but it sure did get hot last week. Cadiz has an actual NOAA reporting weather station, I think. It's currently 100F at 11:30 am. Not too bad by desert standards - I'll check throughout today and see how high it goes.

I wonder why accuweather got it so wrong, and why it was so hot 30 miles east. Ah well, the mysteries of nature. Isn't the weather nice today? It's overcast. I was hoping for a monsoon storm, but didn't get it. It hit 119 last week here outside Needles. LOL, I shouldn't complain since it's hit over 120 before.

 

[Razz]

i am looking at the maps again, the s in the road where i was focusing... what i took to be a parking lot in satellite view is actually more like a large electrical transformer or something. it is not a parking lot at all. i must be looking in the wrong area.

Hello dbdb11-
Are you able to say with no doubt that BT was seen the morning they left?
If so, was it CCTV or a sighting by a neighbor and how did you find this out.
I'd be interested in knowing what she was seen wearing. IF she was wearing flip flops for example, the flip flops should be located in the truck or the RV as RT has said she was wearing boots and socks when she disappeared.
So, she changed into other shoes at some point on the trip.
IF she was seen at 8:15, but nothing to make LE think she was ever in the desert, that might indicate that she disappeared sometime between when they left home and their arrival in the desert. It seems unlikely (to me anyway) that she would have disappeared somewhere in between without being noticed by others on the road.
I can't really get a grasp of this but if there is as much brush around as pictures indicate, I think it's possible she fell into the brush (tripped, or fainted.) All I can think of is Sandy Giles and how she had been in the desert the entire time, near her abandoned car, but had gone undiscovered for months as her body had been covered by sand by the sandscrapers.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I’m struggling with the idea that many here are claiming that the police will claim ‘no foul play’ when they really believe there is. This report came several days into the investigation. I question them using it as a tactic because of the many many times I’ve seen reports where the police do the opposite and say they suspect foul play. It would seem in some cases that the pressure of being under suspicion would cause someone to crack and mess up more than relaxing and thinking they’re off the hook. I don’t know the exact psychology and it would need to be used judiciously and directed based on the individual.

I’m not an expert on how the police use their statements, or whether they lie to the public about this however. I did ask if someone from LE could clarify if they would actually straight up lie to the public about such a serious matter if they had evidence or suspicions otherwise.

I think it's complicated by RT's confidence (in the video, anyway - I realize this is just a snapshot of a husband in a crisis) that she was taken by someone. This would also be foul play, I imagine.

That leaves a couple of possibilities - that she willingly just left him out there (unlikely if their marriage was as good as he says, and she could have initiated the leaving process in Hong Kong with some distance between them). Or more likely, that she is out there in the wild, and the best efforts of 9 days couldn't find this poor woman. All of these are heartbreaking possibilities. The last one makes me personally feel most powerless, because there's no justice to pursue. Just the acknowledgement that nature is brutal and our best technology can't always save the day.

 

[10ofRods]

There is a parking lot on kelbaker road, close to where I believe they were parked. There was a parking lot in robbies account as well. Some other ppl have posted different pull off points than I have. The pull off point I am looking at and the parking lot are very differrent places, on either side of an s bend in the shape of the road.

I was surprised they walked to a place from which a parking lot was visible, because the whole point of the walk, and the trip, I interpreted as being to escape things like parking lots. In my own experience, when exploring new areas, you can suddenly come upon a road or building, even though moments earlier you were in "pristine" wilderness. Just observations.

It's a dirt pullout at the intersection of two roads. Robbie's initial 911 call had dispatch sending to Hidden Hills/Kelbaker. All further staging was done from that location. SAR general sets up where the event began to unfold for obvious reasons.

I don't know where they are going, but there's a FCFS campground about 30 miles up the road. There aren't many places that a rig that size could pull over safely for them to walk at all. They clearly wanted to walk and take pictures (in RT's telling). They would only have been able to see the top of their RV, and sometimes, not even that, I"m guessing.

Where is the info coming from, that there were other cars at that location? I missed that.

Coordinates for Kelbaker/HiddenHills are:

34°47'36.6"N 115°36'35.0"W

 

[Kapua]

Will amend to this

Still missing.Missing: 7-12-19
Barbara Thomas, 69, of Bullhead City, has no supplies or cell phone, San Bernardino County sheriff’s officials wrote in a statement.
She was last seen wearing a black bikini, a red baseball cap and tan hiking boots with black socks while hiking with her husband, the release says. Barbara is 5"9 - Slender Build - Hair -White - Geen Eyes
The couple had been hiking in an area 20 miles north of Interstate 40 east of Kelbaker Road when they became separated at 2:30 p.m., deputies wrote. Anyone with information is urged to call the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department's Colorado River Station at 760-326-9200 or Sheriff's Dispatch at 760-956-5001.

It would be great to have a good picture and/or description of the truck and RV as well. MOO

 

[dbdb11]

DBM

 

[chihuahua]

It would be great to have a good picture and/or description of the truck and RV as well. MOO

Done.
C

 

[dbdb11]

It's a dirt pullout at the intersection of two roads. Robbie's initial 911 call had dispatch sending to Hidden Hills/Kelbaker. All further staging was done from that location. SAR general sets up where the event began to unfold for obvious reasons.

I don't know where they are going, but there's a FCFS campground about 30 miles up the road. There aren't many places that a rig that size could pull over safely for them to walk at all. They clearly wanted to walk and take pictures (in RT's telling). They would only have been able to see the top of their RV, and sometimes, not even that, I"m guessing.

Where is the info coming from, that there were other cars at that location? I missed that.

Coordinates for Kelbaker/HiddenHills are:

34°47'36.6"N 115°36'35.0"W

Info about other cars is coming from Robbie.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

I recall @sroad, who visited the area, saying the trail was quite obvious.

@sroad i have read your recap of your visit there. Valuable info. Can you say anything to the cell service in that area?

 

[chihuahua]

Info about other cars is coming from Robbie.

Thank you, and I am not going to ask at this point if you believe Robbie or not.
Hmmm.
Chi

 

[10ofRods]

With a beer in hand she's dehydrating as well.

And therefore, even more need to pee. Yet, peeing out there with the cholla and stuff, not so fun. Here's an article on cholla (which you can see in the SAR pictures, in abundance):

The Cholla Cactus

Everything out there is prickly. The only way I can pee outdoors in that area is near sandstone. I try to avoid the entire issue.

If the whole trail looks like that, it would be pretty hard to inadvertently wander off it. I wonder if it stays relatively flat, or if it eventually has drops on the side. I guess someone could trip or fall and then maybe roll off the trail. Distances in the desert tend to look shorter than they actually are, so I wonder if BT was further away from RT than he thought when she disappeared.

No drop offs. It remains that way for quite some distance. There are intersecting trails that are even smaller, but it would be noticeable if you got on one (you can see them in the 3D view on google). You can also see how flat it is out there. There were no places to "roll off" the trail and a person would be screeching, I'd think, if they got much off trail with bare legs. You can also see a trail that RT would have taken toward the rock formations in the creek bed (I believe he says "lake" in one of his videoed interviews - no lakes out there, but there is a dry creek bed that would look like a dry lake).

At any rate, if they had turned off that main trail toward the creek bed (both of them) and he decided to walk into the creek bed and she turned back, she'd have made a turn to her left and he'd have lost sight of her quickly. But if she didn't remember that turn and went straight (you can see the intersecting trail) she'd have hit Kelbaker Road south of where she expected to be...

 

[10ofRods]

Does anyone have a photo of the actual place the RV was parked?

This is where SBCS sent their first responders after RT"s call, so he had to be there to meet them. This is also where SBCS sent all other personnel to join the search and where they sent someone last week on a follow-up mission of some kind (all labeled missing person's). It's also where police scanners mention the search taking place.

 

[PommyMommy]

Done.
C

Source: AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[MsBetsy]

I’m still hoping to learn what RT and LT did between 8:15 and noon, as I think I recall reading that it was about a 90-minute trip from their home to the walking/hiking location.

Well, if Robert's account of events to his nephew's family are accurate the time may make sense.

If he really looked around for her and went to the cave, and then finally called LE around noon because it was getting hot, then it fits that they would have arrived around 10:00, and walked for about an hour until the time she disappeared, or was last seen. (when he took the picture)

So that would have been around 11:00, and if he searched for her until noon before he called LE that explains the time frame.

What would not make sense is why he didn't actually call until about 1:30.
That leaves about 2 1/2 hours between the time that he last saw her and the time he called 911.

A lot could have happened during that time frame. Imo

 

[10ofRods]

Info about other cars is coming from Robbie.

Thank you so much. Okay - well, definitely possible. Did he see anyone else while on the trail? Did anyone come to his aid or return to those cars while he awaited police? Or were they gone when he got back (leading to his abduction idea)?

This is an interesting detail because if Barb couldn't get into the camper for whatever reason and sought a private spot (due to others being around), she'd go a little further from the dirt lot (and much the area is pretty dense with pokey things, so she might have walked down Hidden Hill Road, where a few places appear more sparse of vegetation). I know the area was searched (but perhaps not immediately). If she did get turned around and continued further away from the dirt lot, I'm pretty convinced that she could have gone outside of any initial search perimeter. These are questions the family might want to ask the incident commander.

 

[Liwthe]

Something just hit me about dbdb11's explanation
of what robbie told her or someone else about
their last walk.
right before she went missing he says he told
her to wait for him instead of going ahead of him.
They had a disagreement over this. Stop right there.
Did she defy his instruction or order or wish?
did she dare disregard what he told her?
Wait for me.
Was this a straw that broke the camel's back.
One last time, she defied him?
Would love to be a fly on the wall when LE
asked him to go over this scenario again.
New questions: Does he have a temper?
How would his ex's answer that?
My speculation only, but I'd want to re-visit
those moments when he said she went ahead
of him on the trail even though he wanted her
to wait for him.
Red Flag, Red Flag. JMO.

You’re certainly painting the picture of a highly dysfunctional relationship based on RT saying he asked his wife to wait while he took a photo (which is the safe thing to do in the desert). She might have been prone to wandering ahead. Whether or not it would be worth a fatal beating is quite speculative as you say, and also whether it is a red flag.

I’m often asked to wait a minute while my partner takes a photo (or twenty) as he’s just letting me know he’s stopping as otherwise I wouldn’t notice if I’m ahead on the trail.