CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[PommyMommy]

In other cases (Mollie Tibbits, Abby & Libby, etc) LE has made public pleas for business and homeowners to check their cameras.

I don't know those cases - are there similarities with this situation?

No, but we were not comparing the cases. We were citing examples in which LE did or did not make a public request of businesses and residents for video surveillance footage. MOO

 

[?mysterian?]

Bringing this forward from earlier today:

"Bringing media links forward for those who want to proactively contact them:
Las Vegas News Channel
Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance
You Ask. We Investigate. story ideas: Click here or email 13investigates@ktnv.com

m.me/ZachNews
news.zachnews@gmail.com
ZachNews

Media Center – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
Email: paffairs@sbcsd.org

Arizona News
Arizona woman missing in California's Mojave Desert
News tips and story ideas
If you see news happening, or know of something that should be covered in The Arizona Republic, email us at newstips@arizonarepublic.com with as much detail as possible and your contact information. You may also call the newsroom at 602-444-NEWS (6397)

Mohave Valley Daily News
Search continues for missing Bullhead City woman
Bill McMillen, Mohave Valley Daily News Editor ext. 5144 / bmcmillen@mohavedailynews.com
BREAKING NEWS EMAIL:breakingnews@mohavedailynews.com

Kapua, Today at 3:23 PMReport
#153Unlike+ QuoteReply"

 

[PommyMommy]

Bringing forward @dbdb11's request. If you're on Facebook, please help.

please everyone reading, please like and share this article, share with all your friends on social media please. I am hopeful HLN will be interested in a follow up report if they can see peoples interest in the story.

thank you all!

Bikini-clad hiker missing in the Mojave Desert

#TEAMBARBARA

Thank you, @?mysterian?

 

[?mysterian?]

Bringing forward @dbdb11's request. If you're on Facebook, please help.

#TEAMBARBARA

Thank you, @?mysterian?

You're welcome, PM

 

[10ofRods]

No, but we were not comparing the cases. We were citing examples in which LE did or did not make a public request of businesses and residents for video surveillance footage. MOO

And TBF, as a Southern Californian, I can say that there's no way local LE would usually go get all video footage from a non-homicide. If they become convinced it's a homicide, though, they will go to the places on RT's digital footprint and certainly not ask every small business owner to feel they must go through video. Even in homicides, they don't overwhelm the public with these types of requests, it tends to be targeted.

There are *so* many missing persons. And many of them are found by LE, living on the streets, living in homeless shelters, even out on the land somewhere. Even that is a really big burden on LE these days.

So it is indeed up to the families to organize some of this themselves. I totally agree with the way you stated it, as well.

 

[wary]

LE stated that their search resulted in finding no evidence of BT.
If a SAR dog(s) had alerted to Barbara's scent anywhere in the search area that would be considered evidence of Barbara's presence.

I know what LE said. However, I don’t feel at all confident that LE was saying that the dogs had found no sign that Barbara was ever there.

 

[Cherwell]

I know what LE said. However, I don’t feel at all confident that LE was saying that the dogs had found no sign that Barbara was ever there.

I agree. The statement was made in the context of the search.

 

[Nerissa]

Would be nice to know what 'no evidence' means...

Presumably there is no evidence of her there in the desert. Sounds pretty straight forward

What I'd like clarified is if the dogs picked up ANY track of her whatsoever....like, 'yes, we tracked her at the rock formation, but then it goes silent' . Was there any trail of her?

Where did it begin (presumably truck)...where did it end?

Saying 'no evidence' is kinda frustrating....presumably there is SOME evidence. The truck, the RV, the place they pulled into...right?????

I find it odd that LE says they don't know how far from the RV she was - that makes no sense....I mean: RT says it was that rock formation...so how can they not know how far away she was...?? Are they saying that they have no proof of her there, so that's why they don't know...?

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

The truck all by itself is not evidence of Barbara being there (a foot print in her boot size would be useful - that's the kind of thing they obviously didn't find). But, those hard packed gravel filled parking lots don't preserve prints well (and there are so, so many). And RT would have walked all around the trailer area looking for her, right?

The trail...well, it's odd that they didn't find a single print. But other SAR teams in that area have said there's usually a light wind and the ground itself is super hard.

But yeah - no scent picked up, no footprints, no dropped beer cup. Nothing of Barbara, that's how I take it.

Now that you brought it up as a separate point, it is a really sobering point.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Bringing this forward from earlier today:

"Bringing media links forward for those who want to proactively contact them:
Las Vegas News Channel
Man says police think he is a suspect in wife's disappearance
You Ask. We Investigate. story ideas: Click here or email 13investigates@ktnv.com

m.me/ZachNews
news.zachnews@gmail.com
ZachNews

Media Center – San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department
Email: paffairs@sbcsd.org

Arizona News
Arizona woman missing in California's Mojave Desert
News tips and story ideas
If you see news happening, or know of something that should be covered in The Arizona Republic, email us at newstips@arizonarepublic.com with as much detail as possible and your contact information. You may also call the newsroom at 602-444-NEWS (6397)

Mohave Valley Daily News
Search continues for missing Bullhead City woman
Bill McMillen, Mohave Valley Daily News Editor ext. 5144 / bmcmillen@mohavedailynews.com
BREAKING NEWS EMAIL:breakingnews@mohavedailynews.com

Kapua, Today at 3:23 PMReport
#153Unlike+ QuoteReply"

What about the http://mojaveproject.org/
Anyone have connections with this group of people? http://mojaveproject.org/contributors/

 

[MsBetsy]

LE stated that their search resulted in finding no evidence of BT.
If a SAR dog(s) had alerted to Barbara's scent anywhere in the search area that would be considered evidence of Barbara's presence.

I'm not surprised the dogs did not pick up her scent. (if this is truly the case)
From everything I have heard or read about finding a scent, the best conditions are cool, moist days with no wind. The best places are shady areas with lush vegetation.

Hot and dry conditions have a negative impact on scent. Direct sunlight dries and destroys vapors.
Also, heat can cause scent vapors to rise above the level of where the dog is working.
It's pretty hot there and there is not much lush vegetation or shade, so to me it doesn't seem all that unusual if the dogs did not pick up on her scent.
Imo

 

[artsy1]

So here's an off the wall thought. I don't know how expensive it is, but maybe worth a shot.

Lidar is the latest technology, that works sort of like sonar - so you can see things maybe you can't with the naked eye. (I was just reading how lidar helped find hidden graves in Mexico.)

Apparently you can hire people who have the equipment to do searches for you. Like I said, I don't know what kind of costs it would entail (RT - pony up, big boy), but it might be worth hiring someone to fly a lidar drone over the desert.

Just trying to think outside of the box here. MOO

ETA: Not about looking for a grave, mind you. They can strip foliage off results so we could see if Barbara is under the brush and missed by the searchers.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

Well, the problem is that there is no evidence she was anywhere else either, or that she never went to the desert.

Just because they found no evidence or trace of her doesn't mean she was never there.

All they had to go by was the last location where Robert said he saw her. The dogs apparently did not pick up her scent, and I'm not sure what other evidence would have indicated that she was there, besides the beer mug and maybe her clothing.
So it's likely wherever those things are is where Barbara is, and right now they don't seem to have any idea where that could be. Imo

Actually, they could almost go by where ever BT had walked in that area, not just the "last location where Robert said he saw her."


Early reporting, as relayed in the Facebook group:
National Center For Missing and Endangered, Inc.

bbm & ubm

Authorities showed up with a helicopter and later search dogs, scouring the area to find her, but no trace of her has been found yet. They don’t believe she left by choice, but at this point do not believe there was criminal activity, so they’re focusing their efforts on a search and rescue mission.

Robert believes she might have been picked up. Their trailer was parked near a road, and he thinks someone might have take Barbara while she was crossing the road.

He’s asking people in surrounding areas, including Las Vegas, to be on high alert.

He says if anyone did pick her up, he won’t press charges. He just wants her home safe.

Early on, "at that point" in the investigation, LE must have believed BT was there and had gotten lost in the desert but after extensive searching and not having found any trace of her after-the-fact and not believing in a coincidental possibility that she might have been abducted from such a "remote area", what was LE left with?

RT claimed LE told him they believe he had been "deceptive" during polygraph questioning. Had RT truly been deceptive or was that LE attempting to apply pressure on an individual they might secretly believe knows more than he's telling or maybe had committed a crime? Either way, is it that LE is unable to prove anything, one way or the other?

That is why this case is stalled.
That is why LE has not held press conferences.
That is why LE has not officially called for "public's assistance."
That is why, short of BT being found d or a, potential eyewitness reporting or a perp's confession, this case might not be solved.

And, after five years...

CALIFORNIA MISSING PERSON PRESUMPTION OF DEATH; COURT DECLARATION OF DEATH AND CALIFORNIA PROBATE OF ESTATE OF MISSING PERSON | Sweeney Probate Law | Riverside County, California

California Evidence Code § 667 provides that a person not heard from in five years is presumed to be dead.

Under the laws of California, if a person has been missing for five years or longer, his or her spouse, certain family members, and creditors can file a petition with the court requesting that the person be "presumed dead." If the person is found to be presumed dead, a probate administration can occur.

 

[MsBetsy]

bbm


Actually, they could almost go by where ever BT had walked in that area, not just the "last location where Robert said he saw her."


Early reporting, as relayed in the Facebook group:
National Center For Missing and Endangered, Inc.

bbm & ubm


Early on, "at that point" in the investigation, LE must have believed BT was there and had gotten lost in the desert but after extensive searching and not having found any trace of her after-the-fact and not believing in a coincidental possibility that she might have been abducted from such a "remote area", what was LE left with?

RT claimed LE told him they believe he had been "deceptive" during polygraph questioning. Had RT truly been deceptive or was that LE attempting to apply pressure on an individual they might secretly believe knows more than he's telling or maybe had committed a crime? Either way, LE is unable to prove anything, one way or the other.

That is why this case is stalled.
That is why LE has not held press conferences.
That is why LE has not officially called for "public's assistance."
That is why, short of BT being found d or a, potential eyewitness reporting or a perp's confession, this case might not be solved.

And, after five years...

CALIFORNIA MISSING PERSON PRESUMPTION OF DEATH; COURT DECLARATION OF DEATH AND CALIFORNIA PROBATE OF ESTATE OF MISSING PERSON | Sweeney Probate Law | Riverside County, California

Yes, of course, the search area was determined based on how far a person could reasonably go in that amount of time.
I didn't mean they only searched in the spot where he last saw her.
They conducted their search according to where Robert said they went.
And yes, there have been many cases where people have gone missing in the desert and are never found or it takes years to find them. Hopefully she will be found soon. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Would be nice to know what 'no evidence' means...

Presumably there is no evidence of her there in the desert. Sounds pretty straight forward

What I'd like clarified is if the dogs picked up ANY track of her whatsoever....like, 'yes, we tracked her at the rock formation, but then it goes silent' . Was there any trail of her?

Where did it begin (presumably truck)...where did it end?

Saying 'no evidence' is kinda frustrating....presumably there is SOME evidence. The truck, the RV, the place they pulled into...right?????

I find it odd that LE says they don't know how far from the RV she was - that makes no sense....I mean: RT says it was that rock formation...so how can they not know how far away she was...?? Are they saying that they have no proof of her there, so that's why they don't know...?

JMO

She had about 1/4 or 1/2 mile to walk to get back to the RV. I'm not sure of the exact distance, but she had to cross the road to get to it.
So if she made a wrong turn or several wrong turns and walked for 30 or 40 minutes I'm guessing she could have gotten pretty far from the road or the RV.
That they found no evidence makes it all that much harder since LE wouldn't have a clue which direction she may have gone. Imo

 

[GordianKnot]

The truck all by itself is not evidence of Barbara being there (a foot print in her boot size would be useful - that's the kind of thing they obviously didn't find). But, those hard packed gravel filled parking lots don't preserve prints well (and there are so, so many). And RT would have walked all around the trailer area looking for her, right?

The trail...well, it's odd that they didn't find a single print. But other SAR teams in that area have said there's usually a light wind and the ground itself is super hard.

But yeah - no scent picked up, no footprints, no dropped beer cup. Nothing of Barbara, that's how I take it.

Now that you brought it up as a separate point, it is a really sobering point.

BBM:

That's how I interpret it, too.

I think LE 's statements re: no evidence or trace of BT having been found in that location mean just that.

It would have been interesting had LE given some of the search dogs something with RT's scent instead of BT's to see if/where/how far the dogs tracked his scent from where the RV was parked.

If search dogs had been able to pick up RT's scent but not BT's, that would have been highly suggestive.

JMO.

 

[TGIRecovered]

Talking to news media is like sitting the suspect down and showing them all of your cards. I think they are doing their job well if they have some people believing that they have no evidence of foul play, because that makes it more likely that a suspect will believe it too.

The fact that LE is not actively asking the general public for information is good reason to believe that they are making good progress on solving the case. They may already know exactly what happened and are wisely keeping that quiet while they build a prove-able court case. These days, good jurors who understand what is reasonable doubt and what is not reasonable are hard to find.

I would hate to see a murderer set free to do it again, if indeed that is what happened to Barbara.

 

[Micheline]

If BT had been hit by a car it would have been simpler for that person to call 911 instead of picking her up and involving themselves more in the situation by having her DNA everywhere and her possible death inside the car.

Sometimes people react frantic. There are so many cases of people hitting someone with a car, and they do not even stop.
Perhaps the person got out of the car, thinking, since them being in the middle of the Mojave desert, the best thing would be to quickly bring her to get help themselves.

 

[sumzero]

Talking to news media is like sitting the suspect down and showing them all of your cards. I think they are doing their job well if they have some people believing that they have no evidence of foul play, because that makes it more likely that a suspect will believe it too.

The fact that LE is not actively asking the general public for information is good reason to believe that they are making good progress on solving the case. They may already know exactly what happened and are wisely keeping that quiet while they build a prove-able court case. These days, good jurors who understand what is reasonable doubt and what is not reasonable are hard to find.

I would hate to see a murderer set free to do it again, if indeed that is what happened to Barbara.

LE isn't asking the public for help in countless other cases, missing persons or otherwise. Is this a sign they're making progress in solving them? I highly doubt it. I'm sure they're working hard on this case, to the extent their time and resources allow. But there's no way for us to infer what their silence means, IMO.

 

[al66pine]

Can LIDAR Help Locate BT?

....Lidar is the latest technology, that works sort of like sonar - so you can see things maybe you can't with the naked eye. (I was just reading how lidar helped find hidden graves in Mexico.)
Apparently you can hire people who have the equipment to do searches for you. Like I said, I don't know what kind of costs it would entail (RT - pony up, big boy), but it might be worth hiring someone to fly a lidar drone over the desert....

^sbm. artsy1 Thanks for your post. Interesting idea.

From Murder victims hidden in camouflaged graves could be found using Lidar - Big World Tale pub Aug. 2018: "Scientists believe Lidar could quickly reveal places where ground has sunk by a few centimetres, caused by decomposing bodies buried beneath the ground. This sinking movement is too subtle for the naked eye to detect, especially when the grave has been scattered with leaves or debris, scientists say."
^ It describes a LIDAR experiment detecting changes in ground over an 18 mi. period.

IIRC, earlier threads discussed virtual impossibility of manual-shovel type digging in that terrain. And even if ground allowed for manual digging, timeline is too tight for burial, imo.
If BT is at the Mojave site, imo, her remains are on the surface, perhaps under some vegetation, perhaps outside the SAR-search area.

Would LIDAR detect BT's remains, if she is not buried, but on surface of Mojave terrain? IDK. Where are our forensic ppl to weigh in on this question?
@10ofRods Any thoughts on this? Thx in adv.

______________________________________
From a quick glance at LIDAR in wiki, Law Enforcement applications: "....forensics to aid in crime scene investigations. Scans of a scene are taken to record exact details of object placement, blood, and other important information for later review. These scans can also be used to determine bullet trajectory in cases of shootings..."