CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

[oc1234]

What about the principle that says that nobody walks "in a straight line" in the wilderness, despite thinking/believing that they do?

Humans Walk in Circles When They're Lost

Would probably appear pretty eerie from footage:



Every article that I found discussing this phenomenon, said that researchers have, as of yet, been unable to figure out why.

This is interesting. First thought is that it is instinctual survival. As they say, hug a tree if you are lost - stay put; car broke down, stay with car. If you are walking circles, you are essentially staying put. This actually makes a lot of dumb/simple sense. You don't wander far from where you were lost and anyone possibly looking for you isn't that far from you/your trail.

 

[cedgison]

Just to clarify...if you trace the post by @debbiegarcia36 back, she was responding to someone who was appearing to challenge the VI. She was pointing out tactfully that we aren’t to challenge the VI.

That being said, the OP to whom she was responding was questioning the VI about whether it was appropriate to share information about where RT is spending his time currently (and implying something negative). That question needs to be addressed to a mod, but it’s a valid one IMO.

In that case, my apologies to @debbiegarcia36. Hopefully whomever she was responding to will see this, as well (as I’ve, admittedly, not scrolled back enough to find out who myself).

 

[cazador]

Since we have nothing....
Let’s ask a question.
What if the guy 300 miles away ran from that situation and actually had wheels. He lost his prior victim, had to come up with an escape plan. So he gets into his vehicle and drives to the next state to Nevada. This causes delay in LE... So he drives and ends up on HWY 40 .. 6 hours later ... he takes a left on a road to avoid LE and finds a female crossing the road to her RV .. He commands her and she Obeys ... ?? What is your thought? It is FAR reaching !! But .. What If ??

 

[MsBetsy]

Since we have nothing....
Let’s ask a question.
What if the guy 300 miles away ran from that situation and actually had wheels. He lost his prior victim, had to come up with an escape plan. So he gets into his vehicle and drives to the next state to Nevada. This causes delay in LE... So he drives and ends up on HWY 40 .. 6 hours later ... he takes a left on a road to avoid LE and finds a female crossing the road to her RV .. He commands her and she Obeys ... ?? What is your thought? It is FAR reaching !! But .. What If ??

I doubt it.

 

[al66pine]

LE Not Contacting BT's Son Matt?

put aside RT not contacting Matt to 1/ tell him his mother is missing and
2/ see if he has heard from her or her alleged kidnappers.
why hadn't LE done precisely the same thing....day1???
see it as critical ball dropping imo

@ k-mac Thanks for ^ post.
Others have questioned/discussed whether LE confiscated RT's cell, how long they kept it, whether he gave a wrong #, old #, transposed #, deliberately or by accident, offered possible explanations about RT's reasons for not calling her son and/or other relatives (at least for a day or so, hoping she would be found safe soon), etc., etc., etc.

All ^ that aside, do we know as a fact that RT told LE that BT had a son? If RT did not tell LE of the son, how would SB Co LE know of existence of son w waaaay different name in IN? I must be overlooking something.

Is it possible ---
- RT told LE BT and son had not been in touch for years?
- her son's name & phone # was not in RT's contact list?
- RT's contact list had hundreds of names & numbers, including her son's but not designated as such?

Not saying any of the above happened, but wondering about it.

 

[Sabrina1011]

you have roses in your heart roses from angels
truly are such a nice websleuther!

sceptic hearts v's trusting hearts.

neither are bad.

moo

Agree so much with you both!

 

[Micheline]

Yes, I think BT has become somewhat of a folk hero at this point. Let's just get her back home...

She sort of liberates women of around 69.
It was of course Robert who portrayed her an object of desire, but by doing so making her a hero and example for all women of 65 and up; it is obvious that they can still be very attractive and hiking in just a bikini and boots.

All those hundreds of comments on social media: "huh a 69 yo woman hiking in a bikini carrying a beer?" , well yes of course!

This case should really get more coverage.

 

[Micheline]

What if it was a "picture of a picture" on a digital camera? I have literally wondered if someone in LE snapped that photo.

Of course then nothing can be seen.
If provided digitally by Robert (since it is already vague, and in order for it to be published by LE, but also the media, they need a large original version or else, if a picture from a picture it will be not larger then a post stamp).
Therefor I would think that the initial picture published would have the data, if cropped, worked on etc, it still may have.

So far none of the pictures of Barbara in bikini have the original data, maybe because, if from that day, it also would have the coordinates of where it was taken, and people appearing where the search is going on.

 

[k-mac]

In that case, my apologies to @debbiegarcia36. Hopefully whomever she was responding to will see this, as well (as I’ve, admittedly, not scrolled back enough to find out who myself).

me too!
I missed the post she was responding to.
just seen all the question marks x

 

[Lilibet]

In that case, my apologies to @debbiegarcia36. Hopefully whomever she was responding to will see this, as well (as I’ve, admittedly, not scrolled back enough to find out who myself).

me too!
I missed the post she was responding to.
just seen all the question marks x

You probably know this but no scrolling back is necessary. Just hit the arrow next to the name until you get back to the original post. In this case, the post by the VI has been removed, so it’s a moot point. It’s all good.

 

[Micheline]

DBM

 

[dbdb11]

Please help me add to this list of ideas for Barbara's family. Some of these have already been suggested but I think they're all worth repeating.

Submit Barbara’s case to the following for consideration:

• Search for Me Foundation
• Texas Equusearch - Report a Person Missing
• S.W.A.R.M. Volunteer Drones (Done!)
• Wings of Mercy

Add Barbara to NamUs

• The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
• Example: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Issue a family statement to thank LE and search teams for their efforts as well as the community for their continued prayers. The family urges/begs/pleads for anyone with information to come forward; reiterates phone numbers to call, etc. Examples:

• ‘Find MacKenzie and bring her home’: Lueck family makes statement
• Shanann Watts’ father gives emotional speech at news conference
• Mom of missing North Carolina teen Hania Noelia Aguilar issues statement

Who is Barbara Thomas? A friend/family member/co-worker/neighbor/pastor gives an interview NOT to discuss the case, but to humanize Barbara. This may be especially important in Barbara’s case because there continues to be confusion on SM between Barbara’s case and Sheryl Powell. Examples:

• Family, friends share stories of who Jayme Closs is
• Family friend of missing Colorado mom pleads for help in desperate search

Release new photos or video of Barbara. “BARBARA THOMAS STILL MISSING – NEW PHOTOS!” A bit sensationalistic, but I have seen this prove fruitful in generating new tips. Examples:

• FBI Releases New Photos Of Hania Aguilar, Reward Increased To $20K For Tips
• New video shows Mollie Tibbetts the day before she disappeared

Hold a Community Vigil / Prayer Service. This can also be done online, organized by the Facebook page. Examples:

• Justice for Maleah: Group holds vigil at Oyster Creek Park for missing girl
• Small town of Braymer holds large vigil for two Wisconsin brothers, men they’ve never met

Announce a “Find Barbara Thomas” Facebook page and provide the link. Examples:

• Kelsey Berreth Missing: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
• 69-year-old Betty Alexander Missing From Sullivan

Organize and announce a Flyer Distribution Event. Coordinate through the Facebook page and request the media to publicize it. Examples:

• Find MacKenzie Lueck
• Volunteers to hold search for missing Temple duo

Announce a Reward. Examples:

• Reward Offered For Information About Missing Mother, Prisma Reyes
• Reward offered for information regarding missing Heath man
• *Contact Crimestoppers and ask if there is currently an award available

Hire a private investigator. Alternatively, pitch the story to a reporter that they interview a private investigator about Barbara’s case. Examples:

• Private investigator opens up about effort to find Lucas Hernandez
• Private Investigator in Southern Colorado weighs in on Kelsey Berreth's disappearance
• Private investigator weighs in on month-old Andreen McDonald missing persons case
• Local PI’s: Best Private Investigators near 86429 - Thumbtack

bumped for myself

 

[Micheline]

bumped for myself

Introduce Barbara to the National media as a woman that not only is missing, but also because of her personality liberates women her age.

You have a pretty strong media case if you want IMO, which may contribute to finding Barbara.

 

[Micheline]

When you look at the stand of the sun in this picture of Barbara, you notice that it is straight above her, as can be noticed by the shade of her clothing and cap.

This should be made when the sun is at its highest, which I think was when they made their walk that day.

Maybe it is a coincidence that there is a picture of Barbara, from another day, in which she is wearing exactly the same as the day of her disappearance, and doing exactly the same as on the day of her disappearance, around the same time of day, around the same time of year.
Most logical, pic is from that day IMO

 

[dbdb11]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns, and there is certainly a group sentiment towards RT.

I'm trying to look at this factually, without my own personal filters that obscure logic and reason.

What I know (which is little):
-Two senior citizens living in the desert, seemingly happy and living a good life
-Wife is about to go see ailing brother in China; but disappears while on a hike with husband prior to her trip.
-Hiking excursions were normal for the couple
-Wife disappeared wearing a bikini, carrying a beer, and wearing a red ball cap.
-Husband did not call her son to inform she was missing
-Husband cancelled her flight to China
-Husband says he took a polygraph and LE said he was being deceptive
-Husband states he has nothing to do with BT's disappearance and that he believes she was abducted while crossing the highway to get back to the RV

So where does this leave us?
A husband stating innocence, and a missing BT, likely deceased. (Although we always hold out hope).

The burning questions for me are what were the actions the day or two before they went hiking? Did the neighbors hear any arguing, did anyone see or talk to BT and was she in distress? Was there any indication the husband was not in favor of the China trip? What did her life insurance look like, and when was it applied for? Is the husband on any type of meds? Did he go to the hardware store and buy any shovels/ropes/tarps, duct tape, etc? Bleach?

These are some of the questions that must be addressed.
Until I hear answers on the above, I am treating the husband as a Victim. It's hard for me to believe that an elderly (albeit vigorous looking) 72 year old is capable of the nefarious act some are speculating he committed.

I remain on the fence, but Victim friendly until/if such time as LE changes the Victim status.

I will also ask....what if you are wrong in your accusatory speculations? What harm have your posts created? How would you feel in his shoes if he is innocent? I ask myself these questions every time before I post.

Amateur opinion and speculation

personally endeavor to remain objective. it is not easy with all the information on the table in front of me.

your summary is correct, but there is substantial additional information which all 'tips' the scale, imho.

despite all information, i remain hopeful that Barb is alive.

that is an indication, on its own, that my views on this disappearance have a very strong bias.

regarding whether or not robert is innocent, i am also hopeful. all of my speculations have been confined to this medium (websleuths). i am not out to publicly shame Rob or ruin his reputation. yes this is public, no i am not trying to spread it around the internet.

from the first day i learned about barbs disappearance i have been on websleuths sharing what i've learned. my first call to Rob and Barbs house on the night i learned of her disappearance, Roberts family told me their plan is to share any and all information across all media etc, spread wherever there are ears to listen, and since that point i have been sharing what i learned here, mostly unfiltered, and also learning from members with lots of experience here on WS ways that i can be useful to Barb.

the times i began using more discretion were after speaking to Barb's son, and realizing this all could be far more dangerous than a surface examination suggests. my family over here agrees the entire situation feels very wrong, and have asked me to limit my involvement out of concern for MY SAFETY.

i have been in contact with law enforcement in AZ and CA, with robbie, with robbies family, with matt, with independent investigators, with many other relevant persons whose relation to rob and barb mean they should be in direct contact with case detectives. many of the means of contact were provided through ws, from members who are very busy trying to help find my aunt. i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

i have scoured all correspondence between barb and my family trying to get a better idea of what could have happened.

i stopped commenting when it got messy on here, but continued in private chats. i resumed posting publicly because i determined it was more helpful for this group to be more informed and updated, mainly because the resources this group of people active on this ws thread have access to are immense and humbling! we are going to find Barbara.

I included very personal pictures Barb sent to us in the hopes you all get a better feel for who she was. she and rob have always been an inspiration to me, and their house is one of the stops i made on my own backpacking journey through the desert regions, and other national parks up and down the west coast in 2007.

i will be the first to formally apologise for any accusations or hurtful speculations. to deny them or defer them or ignore facts before me would be extremely counter productive, imo.

nothing i have learned has been taken lightly. everything i have shared has been shared after careful consideration that it will help in the search for barbara. the gravity of the situation is not any less than the day i first learned she had disappeared.

at this moment i have no reason to think other than what you have seen me suggest. unfortunately due to TOS, and my instinctual feeling that not all relevant information should be shared publicly, or openly for that matter, i can not ammend your summary of events with what i consider crucial information.

and yes, i still consider details surrounding Barbs disappearance imply the situation could be very dangerous; sinister even.

thank you all for being here and keeping Barb in your thoughts.

 

[scaredtopost]

Barbara is proud of you! You're doing an amazing job trying to bring her home and we appreciate everything you choose to share here. Stay strong and know that people here are sending good vibes to you and your family xoxo
JMO, MOO, etc

personally endeavor to remain objective. it is not easy with all the information on the table in front of me.

your summary is correct, but there is substantial additional information which all 'tips' the scale, imho.

despite all information, i remain hopeful that Barb is alive.

that is an indication, on its own, that my views on this disappearance have a very strong bias.

regarding whether or not robert is innocent, i am also hopeful. all of my speculations have been confined to this medium (websleuths). i am not out to publicly shame Rob or ruin his reputation. yes this is public, no i am not trying to spread it around the internet.

from the first day i learned about barbs disappearance i have been on websleuths sharing what i've learned. my first call to Rob and Barbs house on the night i learned of her disappearance, Roberts family told me their plan is to share any and all information across all media etc, spread wherever there are ears to listen, and since that point i have been sharing what i learned here, mostly unfiltered, and also learning from members with lots of experience here on WS ways that i can be useful to Barb.

the times i began using more discretion were after speaking to Barb's son, and realizing this all could be far more dangerous than a surface examination suggests. my family over here agrees the entire situation feels very wrong, and have asked me to limit my involvement out of concern for MY SAFETY.

i have been in contact with law enforcement in AZ and CA, with robbie, with robbies family, with matt, with independent investigators, with many other relevant persons whose relation to rob and barb mean they should be in direct contact with case detectives. many of the means of contact were provided through ws, from members who are very busy trying to help find my aunt. i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

i have scoured all correspondence between barb and my family trying to get a better idea of what could have happened.

i stopped commenting when it got messy on here, but continued in private chats. i resumed posting publicly because i determined it was more helpful for this group to be more informed and updated, mainly because the resources this group of people active on this ws thread have access to are immense and humbling! we are going to find Barbara.

I included very personal pictures Barb sent to us in the hopes you all get a better feel for who she was. she and rob have always been an inspiration to me, and their house is one of the stops i made on my own backpacking journey through the desert regions, and other national parks up and down the west coast in 2007.

i will be the first to formally apologise for any accusations or hurtful speculations. to deny them or defer them or ignore facts before me would be extremely counter productive, imo.

nothing i have learned has been taken lightly. everything i have shared has been shared after careful consideration that it will help in the search for barbara. the gravity of the situation is not any less than the day i first learned she had disappeared.

at this moment i have no reason to think other than what you have seen me suggest. unfortunately due to TOS, and my instinctual feeling that not all relevant information should be shared publicly, or openly for that matter, i can not ammend your summary of events with what i consider crucial information.

and yes, i still consider details surrounding Barbs disappearance imply the situation could be very dangerous; sinister even.

thank you all for being here and keeping Barb in your thoughts.

 

[Hair of the Dog]

You're the one!

I know a lot of people (and I include myself) who call it a cell phone a camera when they use it as a camera. Maybe us older types who remember buying rolls of 35mm film and hoping that one shot looked good.

I used to be a "Fotomate" at Fotomat in the 70's....

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

personally endeavor to remain objective. it is not easy with all the information on the table in front of me.

your summary is correct, but there is substantial additional information which all 'tips' the scale, imho.

despite all information, i remain hopeful that Barb is alive.

that is an indication, on its own, that my views on this disappearance have a very strong bias.

regarding whether or not robert is innocent, i am also hopeful. all of my speculations have been confined to this medium (websleuths). i am not out to publicly shame Rob or ruin his reputation. yes this is public, no i am not trying to spread it around the internet.

from the first day i learned about barbs disappearance i have been on websleuths sharing what i've learned. my first call to Rob and Barbs house on the night i learned of her disappearance, Roberts family told me their plan is to share any and all information across all media etc, spread wherever there are ears to listen, and since that point i have been sharing what i learned here, mostly unfiltered, and also learning from members with lots of experience here on WS ways that i can be useful to Barb.

the times i began using more discretion were after speaking to Barb's son, and realizing this all could be far more dangerous than a surface examination suggests. my family over here agrees the entire situation feels very wrong, and have asked me to limit my involvement out of concern for MY SAFETY.

i have been in contact with law enforcement in AZ and CA, with robbie, with robbies family, with matt, with independent investigators, with many other relevant persons whose relation to rob and barb mean they should be in direct contact with case detectives. many of the means of contact were provided through ws, from members who are very busy trying to help find my aunt. i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

i have scoured all correspondence between barb and my family trying to get a better idea of what could have happened.

i stopped commenting when it got messy on here, but continued in private chats. i resumed posting publicly because i determined it was more helpful for this group to be more informed and updated, mainly because the resources this group of people active on this ws thread have access to are immense and humbling! we are going to find Barbara.

I included very personal pictures Barb sent to us in the hopes you all get a better feel for who she was. she and rob have always been an inspiration to me, and their house is one of the stops i made on my own backpacking journey through the desert regions, and other national parks up and down the west coast in 2007.

i will be the first to formally apologise for any accusations or hurtful speculations. to deny them or defer them or ignore facts before me would be extremely counter productive, imo.

nothing i have learned has been taken lightly. everything i have shared has been shared after careful consideration that it will help in the search for barbara. the gravity of the situation is not any less than the day i first learned she had disappeared.

at this moment i have no reason to think other than what you have seen me suggest. unfortunately due to TOS, and my instinctual feeling that not all relevant information should be shared publicly, or openly for that matter, i can not ammend your summary of events with what i consider crucial information.

and yes, i still consider details surrounding Barbs disappearance imply the situation could be very dangerous; sinister even.

thank you all for being here and keeping Barb in your thoughts.

Standout - and potentially crucial - paragraph, IMO:

i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

I would hope LE are aware of this and ascertained from RT if they had had an argument that morning, or how she had appeared to him. What had happened that had caused her to be so vexed? Something had obviously occurred for it to be so noticeable.

 

[chihuahua]

Yes I agree on this being very interesting and potentially important.
i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.
Personally, I still want to give RT some benefit of doubt, and he has not been charged with anything, but my thoughts are that BT is very much gone.
Continuing to hope and pray that I am oh so wrong.
Surely we will get some official word soon.
Chi

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

personally endeavor to remain objective. it is not easy with all the information on the table in front of me.

your summary is correct, but there is substantial additional information which all 'tips' the scale, imho.

despite all information, i remain hopeful that Barb is alive.

that is an indication, on its own, that my views on this disappearance have a very strong bias.

regarding whether or not robert is innocent, i am also hopeful. all of my speculations have been confined to this medium (websleuths). i am not out to publicly shame Rob or ruin his reputation. yes this is public, no i am not trying to spread it around the internet.

from the first day i learned about barbs disappearance i have been on websleuths sharing what i've learned. my first call to Rob and Barbs house on the night i learned of her disappearance, Roberts family told me their plan is to share any and all information across all media etc, spread wherever there are ears to listen, and since that point i have been sharing what i learned here, mostly unfiltered, and also learning from members with lots of experience here on WS ways that i can be useful to Barb.

the times i began using more discretion were after speaking to Barb's son, and realizing this all could be far more dangerous than a surface examination suggests. my family over here agrees the entire situation feels very wrong, and have asked me to limit my involvement out of concern for MY SAFETY.

i have been in contact with law enforcement in AZ and CA, with robbie, with robbies family, with matt, with independent investigators, with many other relevant persons whose relation to rob and barb mean they should be in direct contact with case detectives. many of the means of contact were provided through ws, from members who are very busy trying to help find my aunt. i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

i have scoured all correspondence between barb and my family trying to get a better idea of what could have happened.

i stopped commenting when it got messy on here, but continued in private chats. i resumed posting publicly because i determined it was more helpful for this group to be more informed and updated, mainly because the resources this group of people active on this ws thread have access to are immense and humbling! we are going to find Barbara.

I included very personal pictures Barb sent to us in the hopes you all get a better feel for who she was. she and rob have always been an inspiration to me, and their house is one of the stops i made on my own backpacking journey through the desert regions, and other national parks up and down the west coast in 2007.

i will be the first to formally apologise for any accusations or hurtful speculations. to deny them or defer them or ignore facts before me would be extremely counter productive, imo.

nothing i have learned has been taken lightly. everything i have shared has been shared after careful consideration that it will help in the search for barbara. the gravity of the situation is not any less than the day i first learned she had disappeared.

at this moment i have no reason to think other than what you have seen me suggest. unfortunately due to TOS, and my instinctual feeling that not all relevant information should be shared publicly, or openly for that matter, i can not ammend your summary of events with what i consider crucial information.

and yes, i still consider details surrounding Barbs disappearance imply the situation could be very dangerous; sinister even.

thank you all for being here and keeping Barb in your thoughts.

I really respect the way you are handling this, dbdb11. It must be nearly impossible to read through all of this and have to filter what you say so much. Please take care of yourself, in all ways.