CA CA - East Area Rapist/Golden State Killer *ARREST* #4

[Shiressleuth]

I have been looking but can’t find anything in MSM or LE to link. I guess LE doesn’t want to stoke that fire but I have heard this for the past few years which is why there is no DNA match to any of the 40 or so rapes in this area. I guess we will all officially know one way or another in the coming months and years.

Before DNA was a thing they could only have tested JJD for blood type from his secretions. JJD being a non secretor, they would not have found a blood type. I also remember reading there was no "mastubation discharge" in some of the early cases. However, now they have the capability to test things like the ligatures for DNA. If they are not able to prosecute, then they may not bother. If it is true he has confessed, it would only be because they have assured him he won't be prosecuted IMO. I don't think he would be stupid enough to confess to them, because they could prove his involvement in the murders easily that way, by finding new DNA, twine or knot similarities, if they don't have comparisons already, to match with those things at the murders.
It will be interesting to see how they put the whole prosecution together.

:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

Why would it be an incentive for someone to upload there DNA? So you can hopefully catch a relative that has committed a crime? But who would want to rat out a relative? Not me. This makes me not want to upload any DNA to these sites if this is what the cops are doing with it.

Incentive would be the reward and that you could be helping to catch a killer. It hopefully would not be a close relative that one would actually know. It's intriguing though.

 

[Jax49]

Why would it be an incentive for someone to upload there DNA? So you can hopefully catch a relative that has committed a crime? But who would want to rat out a relative? Not me. This makes me not want to upload any DNA to these sites if this is what the cops are doing with it.

Interesting perspective. Personally the thought it might catch a murderer makes me more willing to upload my DNA.

moo

 

[Shiressleuth]

This has been one of the most well-known parts of the case for the past 17 years at least. Hunting a Predator, Sudden Terror, I'll Be Gone In the Dark all mentioned it repeatedly. Any of the TV documentaries - Cold Case Files, Golden State Killer - It's Not Over, Unmasking a Killer, they ALL feature Mary Hong talking about this scenario.

There were 49 EAR attacks.

Because the statute of limitations expired all DNA evidence was meant to have been thrown out - there is a limit to storage space and they can't simply store the thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence relating to crimes which can no longer be prosecuted.

Mary Hong found three duplicate kits in Contra Costa County - they were supposed to have been thrown out long before but had accidentally survived in storage. She was able to conclusively prove for the first time what the investigators had always known - that the same man had committed the three rapes in question.

There is no DNA evidence in any of the other 46 EAR cases, across all the jurisdictions.

The only three EAR attacks which DNA exists for are:

Attack 39 in San Ramon (October 28th 1978)
Attack 42 in Danville (December 9th 1978)
Attack 46 in Danville (November 6th 1979)


You will not find one link that will give you all this information, I have listed some of the many places you can find parts of the story above.

Thanks for clarifying. Is Mary Hong LE? A lot of the rape victims are still alive. Maybe they have picked him out from a picture line up despite there being no other evidence in those cases. Also, they could find some of their belongings in the stuff they took from his house - that would be new evidence.
What would happen, for example, if they find a way to prosecute the CCC rapes, despite the SOL? Is that a possibility? E.g. if they were classed as attempted murder.

Also, perhaps there are post 1986 cold cases yet to be linked, including murders like the Cheryl Hawkley and Cindy Wanner cases that have been mentioned as possibles?

:cow:

 

[Shiressleuth]

How about any other crime except being a serial killer?

I would imagine the only people not wanting to do it, could be people who either may already suspect a relative or even be one themselves. I don't think the crime seriousness would matter except there would likely be no reward if the offence was just a misdemeanour. But it wouldn't be compulsory. There could come a time when everyone's DNA is on file. Could help with organ donation and other beneficial outcomes too.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

But would you want to be held responsible if a family member was caught because you uploaded your dna? I would feel too guilty if I was the one that got a relative busted.

I have no desire to find missing relatives, and would never submit my DNA to any of the geneology sites. After this, however, I'm going to order a kit and send in my DNA. If my DNA can help put a rapist or murderer behind bars, I'm all for it. I would have no problem turning in a family member who had committed horrible crimes.

Feel guilty? Nope. I would, however, feel guilty if I could have prevented a future rape or murder and did nothing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[GreyClay]

Thanks for clarifying. Is Mary Hong LE? A lot of the rape victims are still alive. Maybe they have picked him out from a picture line up despite there being no other evidence in those cases. Also, they could find some of their belongings in the stuff they took from his house - that would be new evidence.
What would happen, for example, if they find a way to prosecute the CCC rapes, despite the SOL? Is that a possibility? E.g. if they were classed as attempted murder.

Also, perhaps there are post 1986 cold cases yet to be linked, including murders like the Cheryl Hawkley and Cindy Wanner cases that have been mentioned as possibles?

:cow:

You're welcome!

Mary Hong's job title is the Senior Forensic Scientist at the Orange County Crime Lab. She's a champion!

The only possibility of prosecuting the rapes - according to the consensus of most LE who have spoken about it - would be to charge JJD with kidnapping in those cases. Beth Snelling was being kidnapped before her father intervened and was murdered. Certainly there is the one instance (in Attack 9) where he removed the victim from her house and took her to the canal. But an adventurous DA could try to argue that he kidnapped ALL of the victims.

It is a slippery slope - OJ Simpson was charged with (and convicted of!) kidnapping for saying "don't let anyone leave the room" when he was involved in the dispute over his memorabilia. He was armed, as was the EAR.

It is possible that it could be argued that the EAR kidnapped most of the female victims - as he moved them from the bedroom to the lounge room to carry out the sexual assaults. A couple of victims were taken out of their houses and raped on the patio.

I think it is quite likely that JJD will do what BTK, the Green River Killer and many others before him did. When confronted with the overwhelming evidence against him (and to spare his family further grief) he will likely plead guilty to all 12-13 murders, thus avoiding a trial. This would also remove the possibility of the kidnapping case(s) being tried.



I am unsure if there will be any post-1986 victims, he was already 41 years old at the time and his second daughter was months away from being born. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a murder or two we don't yet know about, but I would suspect prior to 1986 is more likely than post 1986. My own opinions only!

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/maj...in-east-bay-rapist-golden-state-killer-case#/

This has probably been posted a couple of threads back but it is interesting for a few reasons.

A recording of the killer's voice.

Some other reports of neighbour interactions.

A timeline and map link.

A link to the PC announcing JJD arrest.

Eta. If you click on the map in the timeline section it has individual clickable links to each crime. If you click on the Citrus Heights attack (14 May '77) it describes the attack and has a photo of an "attack bag" found that contains cotton gloves, a flashlight and some fabric. So they still have photos of some of the evidence.

 

[Mominmi]

But would you want to be held responsible if a family member was caught because you uploaded your dna? I would feel too guilty if I was the one that got a relative busted.

i would not feel guilty at all for being the reason a criminal got caught. I’d feel proud I protected my community from my relative.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/golden-state-killer-arrest-prompts-look-at-40-year-old-local-murder/

Golden State Killer arrest prompts look at 40-year-old local murder

May 18, 2018

**********

families looking for inclusion through dna

This is heartbreaking. Hope they nail it. Great link Tp.

 

[Tadpole12]

You're welcome!

Mary Hong's job title is the Senior Forensic Scientist at the Orange County Crime Lab. She's a champion!

The only possibility of prosecuting the rapes - according to the consensus of most LE who have spoken about it - would be to charge JJD with kidnapping in those cases. Beth Snelling was being kidnapped before her father intervened and was murdered. Certainly there is the one instance (in Attack 9) where he removed the victim from her house and took her to the canal. But an adventurous DA could try to argue that he kidnapped ALL of the victims.

It is a slippery slope - OJ Simpson was charged with (and convicted of!) kidnapping for saying "don't let anyone leave the room" when he was involved in the dispute over his memorabilia. He was armed, as was the EAR.

It is possible that it could be argued that the EAR kidnapped most of the female victims - as he moved them from the bedroom to the lounge room to carry out the sexual assaults. A couple of victims were taken out of their houses and raped on the patio.

I think it is quite likely that JJD will do what BTK, the Green River Killer and many others before him did. When confronted with the overwhelming evidence against him (and to spare his family further grief) he will likely plead guilty to all 12-13 murders, thus avoiding a trial. This would also remove the possibility of the kidnapping case(s) being tried.



I am unsure if there will be any post-1986 victims, he was already 41 years old at the time and his second daughter was months away from being born. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a murder or two we don't yet know about, but I would suspect prior to 1986 is more likely than post 1986. My own opinions only!

Ty for the prediction as to JJD's plea.
I heard (podcast) that JJD has up
to six months to plea?

 

[fred&edna]

Thanks for clarifying. Is Mary Hong LE? A lot of the rape victims are still alive. Maybe they have picked him out from a picture line up despite there being no other evidence in those cases. Also, they could find some of their belongings in the stuff they took from his house - that would be new evidence.
What would happen, for example, if they find a way to prosecute the CCC rapes, despite the SOL? Is that a possibility? E.g. if they were classed as attempted murder.

Also, perhaps there are post 1986 cold cases yet to be linked, including murders like the Cheryl Hawkley and Cindy Wanner cases that have been mentioned as possibles?

:cow:

Mary Hong retired?! Is this the same person?!

Interesting article from 2016!


Orange County's Crime Lab Accused of Doctoring DNA Analysis In Murder Cases

"... Efforts to reach Hong for comment were not successful; a crime-lab employee told the Weekly that she retired."
https://www.ocweekly.com/orange-cou...ctoring-dna-analysis-in-murder-cases-7538100/

ETA:


May 16 2018

Sheriff’s Orange County Crime Lab Murder Scandal Unfolds in Courts

"The move helps to keep the public in the dark about the pro-prosecution biases of Mary Hong. With authorities unconcerned about her role in the scandal, Hong nowadays runs crime labs for the California Department of Justice."

https://www.ocweekly.com/sheriffs-orange-county-crime-lab-murder-scandal-unfolds-in-courts/


If true, I foresee a major ***** storm. JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.ocsd.org/news/details?NewsID=1867&TargetID=88

Another link regarding Orange County and MH regarding familial DNA solving a case.

 

[nrdsb4]

If he is indeed a psychopath don't bet on it. People with a conscious punish themselves not psychopaths.

I think you mean conscience, and I totally agree. One of the hallmarks of psychopathy is absence of conscience.

 

[fred&edna]

According to McNamara's "I'll Be Gone In The Dark" Hong forensically linked the Harrington, Witthuhn and Cruz cases.

I want the OC Weekly info to be wrong in casting doubt on Hong's work! But I'm worried.

https://okdownloads.cc/download/I'llBeGoneintheDark/I'll Be Gone in the Dark - Michelle McNamara.pdf

 

[x_files]

I think you mean conscience, and I totally agree. One of the hallmarks of psychopathy is absence of conscience.

yes! typo thanks conscience. oh doh! lol!

 

[x_files]

If he is indeed a psychopath don't bet on it. People with a conscious punish themselves not psychopaths.

That’s amazing! This is so exciting!
This guy was a truck driver. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has other victims scattered along his routes. Once they put his DNA in CODIS, will it alert to any other matches for unsolved cases? Is that how it works?


MOO

damn, this is disturbing. How many more victims are out there!

 

[Gussified]

damn, this is disturbing. How many more victims are out there!

Just to be clear, in my comment that you quoted, I was talking about the guy in Washington state who was identified to be the murderer of two young people, using the same DNA techniques as used in GSK case. Not JJD. I’d have to look back to see the guy’s name, but he’s the truck driver, not JJD.

eta: this case...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ings-of-b-c-high-school-sweethearts-1.4669139

A 55-year-old Seattle-area man has been arrested in the cold case double homicide of a young B.C. couple who were killed in Washington state more than 30 years ago.

William Earl Talbott II was taken into custody after a DNA test came back as a positive match to DNA collected from the crime scene more than three decades ago.
...
He has worked as truck driver over the last 20 years and was arrested leaving work yesterday.
MOO

 

[x_files]

If he is indeed a psychopath don't bet on it. People with a conscious punish themselves not psychopaths.

Just to be clear, in my comment that you quoted, I was talking about the guy in Washington state who was identified to be the murderer of two young people, using the same DNA techniques as used in GSK case. Not JJD. I’d have to look back to see the guy’s name, but he’s the truck driver, not JJD.

eta: this case...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ings-of-b-c-high-school-sweethearts-1.4669139

A 55-year-old Seattle-area man has been arrested in the cold case double homicide of a young B.C. couple who were killed in Washington state more than 30 years ago.

William Earl Talbott II was taken into custody after a DNA test came back as a positive match to DNA collected from the crime scene more than three decades ago.
...
He has worked as truck driver over the last 20 years and was arrested leaving work yesterday.
MOO

gotcha! I am still curious what JJD was doing for work all those years. Do we know if his wife is cooperating with LE? Wouldn't she know? or a family member?

 

[Gussified]

gotcha! I am still curious what JJD was doing for work all those years. Do we know if his wife is cooperating with LE? Wouldn't she know? or a family member?

I agree. There are definitely people who know what he was doing during the 80’s. I do hope those people are talking to LE. I’d love to know, but maybe we’ll find out some day.


MOO