CA - Hannah Williams, 17, fatally shot by police on freeway, Fullerton, 5 July 2019

[al66pine]

@MsFacetious
Thank you for your ^ summary of the 15 min vid.
Fullerton PD did an excellent job of explaining the context, the sequence of events.
Showing some of the vid in slo-mo and capturing some still pix highlighted the crucial moments and why the LEO did what he did.

Ssad, sad, sad for every one involved.

 

[MsFacetious]

I agree I thought the video was excellent, I wish more departments did that.

Hannah's Dad did not mention that Hannah didn't have a driver's license in his call to 911. I just noticed that.

This article has quite a bit of information about Hannah, her life, her personality and her family.

'I can't bring her back': parents of girl killed by California police speak out

She was also preparing to take her driver’s test after she got her next paycheck. She never got a chance.

 

[ruffday]

After watching the video I have two thoughts.
Her actions, unfortunately caused her demise. I don't believe she was in her right mind to know what was going to happen because of her actions (or perhaps she did?)
And secondly, her dad broke my heart. I can't imagine his pain. I hope he is able to recover from this horrible tragedy.

 

[MsFacetious]

An attorney for Williams’ family who saw the raw video said he believed the girl was pointing the toy weapon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following the release of the footage, Lee Merritt, the Williams family’s attorney, questioned why the officers handcuffed the girl and left her handcuffed in a critical moment.

“She was clearly not a threat. She was clearly begging for help. She was responsive,” he said. “There was some unnecessary and undue delay” he said.

A police spokesman for the Fullerton police department said it was “standard practice” to handcuff someone in this type of scenario. “An officer has no idea how badly injured someone is, if they possess another weapon,” Jon Radus wrote in an email, adding, “The possible bad scenarios are endless.”

Police release body-cam footage of California girl’s shooting death

I don't think it's clear at all that she wasn't a threat. If she's begging for help she could easily still grab a gun. Sure it would have been great if he'd just somehow known she wouldn't be a threat and left her hands free, but he had no way of knowing that.

If he'd handcuffed her in the front she could have laid on her back, to make breathing easier, maybe? However, that may have made it harder for them to treat her wounds. Not sure where her chest wound was but hand cuffed in the front would have made accessing the thigh wound difficult. I think they'd have been more delayed that way. Having her hands free may have delayed them too, because she may have grabbed at her own wounds and made things worse.

I think this officer did the best thing in this scenario. Seriously, I'm usually jumping on the cops in these situations. I think he did the best he could here.

Do I wish he'd waited to fire? Absolutely. Can I reasonably ASK him to wait? No, I can't. I think this was a suicide by cop, which I wish was not a thing but unfortunately it is.

I think this was Hannah's way of taking the act of suicide out of her own hands. What her motivation for that was, I don't know. That's just what it seems like to me.

 

[ruffday]

An attorney for Williams’ family who saw the raw video said he believed the girl was pointing the toy weapon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following the release of the footage, Lee Merritt, the Williams family’s attorney, questioned why the officers handcuffed the girl and left her handcuffed in a critical moment.

“She was clearly not a threat. She was clearly begging for help. She was responsive,” he said. “There was some unnecessary and undue delay” he said.

A police spokesman for the Fullerton police department said it was “standard practice” to handcuff someone in this type of scenario. “An officer has no idea how badly injured someone is, if they possess another weapon,” Jon Radus wrote in an email, adding, “The possible bad scenarios are endless.”

Police release body-cam footage of California girl’s shooting death

I don't think it's clear at all that she wasn't a threat. If she's begging for help she could easily still grab a gun. Sure it would have been great if he'd just somehow known she wouldn't be a threat and left her hands free, but he had no way of knowing that.

If he'd handcuffed her in the front she could have laid on her back, to make breathing easier, maybe? However, that may have made it harder for them to treat her wounds. Not sure where her chest wound was but hand cuffed in the front would have made accessing the thigh wound difficult. I think they'd have been more delayed that way. Having her hands free may have delayed them too, because she may have grabbed at her own wounds and made things worse.

I think this officer did the best thing in this scenario. Seriously, I'm usually jumping on the cops in these situations. I think he did the best he could here. Do I wish he'd waited to fire? Absolutely. Can I reasonably ASK him to wait? No, I can't. I think this was a suicide by cop, which I wish was not a thing but unfortunately it is.

I agree with you. That officer did what he needed to do and watching him try to help her after showed his compassion. I feel so bad that this situation ended this way. A young girl exhibited poor judgement and her life is ended. I do not blame the officer. I hope he is able to move forward. This was an unfortunate circumstance that he was put into. I also mourn the loss of Hannah. I don't believe she was a bad person. She just put herself into a bad position.

 

[al66pine]

Multiple MSM articles referenced "rental car" teen was driving.
Was it a long-term leased car, like 3 yrs, 4 yrs to her parents?
Or a short term rental (Avis, Hertz, etc.) perhaps rented to some relatives visiting for July 4th? Or ?
Any significance to "rental car"? May or may not be relevant; IDK.

 

[MsFacetious]

Rental car means it was a short term rental. If it was a long term lease he could have looked up the plate number with his insurance and wouldn't have needed to call the rental company.

I don't know. I think it's just one of the facts of the case, it was a rental car. The media knows that since it was likely part of the report when the cop ran the plate it would have shown him that.

I think the significance of a rental may be that it delayed the report. Between Hannah not having a license and it being a rental.... Dad was probably afraid to report it. He was clearly worried they'd charge her with stealing the car. He may have reported her missing sooner otherwise?

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

All I see in the Video is the police officer getting out of his car and opening fire.
I can see where her parents would be very upset.
Did the police officer tell her to step out of the car?
Of course she would be holding a cell phone to trying to call her parents.

 

[al66pine]

All I see in the Video is the police officer getting out of his car and opening fire....

sbm Not sure if we are discussing same vid. Here's the one I saw and referred to. After watching vid below from LEO's body-worn cam, perhaps you could advise whether you now see teen in shooting-style stance facing LEO.
.
Fullerton Cal. PD vid, w pic of teen at 8 min:26 sec,
Rightmost side of screen. Teen stands fully facing LEO, w her feet spread ~ 1 ft. apart, arms up extended forward to shoulder level, w an object in her hands, w wrists extended in a gun aiming and firing position, close to front corner of passenger side of her car.

15+ min. long.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

The video shows the police officer getting out of his car.
Next you can see it looks like Hannah is trying to run away in front of her car.
Next is Shots Fired.
Next is Hannah on the ground after being shot.
At no time in the video does it show her crouching down in a firing position or even facing the Officer at any time.

 

[al66pine]

Has anyone else watched -

from Fullerton Cal. PD youtube?

Pls post here about what you see at 8 min; 26-27 sec's mark:
---A person standing with arms at shoulder level w object in both hands in firing position and facing LEO's body cam or
---Something else.

If you do not see the person facing LEO, try watching on a device w bigger screen. It's relatively clear on my tablet. Thx in adv.

 

[MsFacetious]

The video shows the police officer getting out of his car.
Next you can see it looks like Hannah is trying to run away in front of her car.
Next is Shots Fired.
Next is Hannah on the ground after being shot.
At no time in the video does it show her crouching down in a firing position or even facing the Officer at any time.

She was standing towards the front of her vehicle, feet spread apart, pointing the gun at the officer. Not crouched down, a shooting stance is while standing. I don't know where that crouching thing came from. Even the family's attorney admits Hannah was pointing the gun at the officer. See my post a few posts up, he's quoted.

Hannah was OUT of her car before the officer was out of his. There was no time for him to tell her to exit the car, she did it before he did. Hannah was shot in the FRONT, not the back. So she was definitely not running away. The video is fast and in the shade, but it's clear enough to show this.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

I don’t see it. I only see her running from her car and being shot down.

 

[bears10]

I don’t see it. I only see her running from her car and being shot down.

Here is a still from the video. The uploader wrote gun, not me, just fyi. Sorry for the potato quality. If you zoom in a bit it may make more sense. HTH.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

Okay I watched the entire video. Here are the things I noted.

The officer was taking his K9 to the vet for an injury, not a check up. It was 7pm.

Hannah passed his marked squad speeding and then intentionally hit his vehicle when he attempted to pull her over.

Hannah then made a u turn (or maybe pitted herself when she hit the cop?) so that she was facing the wrong way on the freeway.

The body cam is silent for the first 30 seconds.

Hannah was out of her vehicle before the officer was out of his. That really surprised me.

The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him. He fired, striking her in the left thigh and chest. She fell and dropped the (replica) gun.

The audio on the bodycam kicks on as he's reporting shots fired, requesting EMS and ordering Hannah to roll over onto her stomach and to put her hands to her side.

Hannah is begging for help and saying she can't breathe. The officer says they are going to help and asks where she is hit. She says her chest.

The cop puts a tourniquet on her leg to try and control that. They put a seal on her chest to try and control that. There really is not much blood.

Hannah only asks for help in what was released. She doesn't say anything else or ask why she was shot, the cop doesn't ask her what she was thinking, she just asks for help and he tries to help.

While the initial footage of the shooting itself could be better, I do think it's enough to show the cop acted reasonably. I think the quality issue is largely due to the shadow from them being on the side of the vehicle and how fast it happened.

He wasted no time in getting his medical bag and doing everything he could until EMS got there. However, listening to Hannah was heartbreaking.

There is a bystander who is right there and tells the cop it's a replica. He is also with Hannah telling her to stay with them. He also grabs the cops medical bag for him I believe. (These could have been other cops too but there was a bystander as well because he had to be told to stay back until the cop handcuffed Hannah while the other officer covered him.)

Around 8:30pm a 911 call was received from Hannah's father. He reported that she had taken the vehicle about 3 hours earlier and they couldn't reach or find her.

He was very emotional. He said she was on anti depressants and they were concerned she would harm herself.

He said he did not think she drank, did drugs or carried weapons. He was very clear that he didn't want to press charges for the car. He was very clearly very scared that his daughter wouldn't be coming home.

He didn't know what she was wearing but knew her description other than that. (5"6, about 190, white, they didn't ask hair and eyes or tattoos).

They were entering her into the missing persons and he was going to get the plate number from the rental company.

I think Hannah realized the mistake she made once she was shot. I wish they'd been able to give her another chance.

It was very emotional to listen to. I hope that the bystander and cop who tried to help Hannah will know they did what they could.

I'm still not pleased how the public was misled but I'm inclined to think that the family didn't initiate that. I think others latched on and just dragged the family along with them. Much like baby Chloe in PR and Jasmine in Texas.

“The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him.”
The video does not show this. That is what was said. That is not what we see on the video.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

officers are required to render aid, no matter what. It is a severely punishable offense if not. It's the law, not an act of compassion.

ETA: I was just adding that - my intent was absolutely NOT to sound snarky at all. Some may not know that.

 

[al66pine]

“The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him.”
The video does not show this. That is what was said. That is not what we see on the video.

Anyone?
A link for source of quote “The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him.”
Not just who said it, but a link, pls. Thx in adv.

 

[MsFacetious]

“The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him.”
The video does not show this. That is what was said. That is not what we see on the video.

That's what the family attorney sees on the video. It works I'd have been clearer if Hannah had come around the other side of her vehicle because she would have been more visible. The cop can't control that though.

officers are required to render aid, no matter what. It is a severely punishable offense if not. It's the law, not an act of compassion.

ETA: I was just adding that - my intent was absolutely NOT to sound snarky at all. Some may not know that.

I am aware of that but it doesn't mean they always do. We've seen several cases where the person died waiting for EMS. This cop acted quickly. He could have taken more time and he didn't.

Anyone?
A link for source of quote “The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him.”
Not just who said it, but a link, pls. Thx in adv.

They were quoting my summary.

 

[oceanstarryeyes]

In my opinion, the video might tell what happened but it doesn’t show what happened.
Merritt has said at least three witnesses have been interviewed by cops, including two who reported seeing Williams get out of her rental car while holding her cellphone. But one witness claimed Williams was holding the replica handgun when she was shot, according to ABC News, citing unspecified media reports
Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeways
Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeway

 

[katydid23]

In my opinion, the video might tell what happened but it doesn’t show what happened.
Merritt has said at least three witnesses have been interviewed by cops, including two who reported seeing Williams get out of her rental car while holding her cellphone. But one witness claimed Williams was holding the replica handgun when she was shot, according to ABC News, citing unspecified media reports
Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeways
Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeway

The replica gun was out on the street, lying near where Hannah fell from the shots. I don't think it would have been there if she hadn't had it in her hands.

When they slowed down the video you can see her pointing something at the officer. I believe she was purposely taking that stance, so he would shoot her. Tragic ending and I wish it hadn't happened that way.