CA - Hannah Williams, 17, fatally shot by police on freeway, Fullerton, 5 July 2019

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I’m wondering if she had her cell phone in her Nathan DS trying to call her parents because she was pulled over and it was mistaken as a gun?
Hopefully her cell phone will show what time the last call was made.
 
Last night I saw the bodycam video and 911 call made by Hannah's dad. Also saw pics of the replica gun. Hannah did point it at the officer. I'm heading out the door and will come back and post links later. Basically the dad was reporting (an hour after the shooting) that she had stolen a car. He was worried about her mental health and she was on meds. A little different than the narrative the family has put out.
 
It's time that people make sure their family members aren't carrying any sort of gun - replica or otherwise, unless they have a permit. Replica guns are not going to go away, there are already millions of them out there.

This was a suicide by cop, moo. The whole thing goes down really quickly, but she does point a realistic looking gun at the officer, who now has to live with this.

Even better, families should try to be aware of each others' mental health issues. It is hard with teens, I know, and even the best families can fail at understanding the depths of despair that depression causes.
 
The gun

"....Civil rights leader Rev. Jarrett Maupin ...[said] ..."This young lady had several siblings, and we don’t know who that gun belonged to....”
sbm Pub. July 10 Replica gun found on scene after California 17-year-old shot and killed by police officer on highway


What difference does it make who the gun belonged to --- her, or siblings, parents, friend, NRA president, or the late Jim Brady? Or was stolen?

The gun was at the scene. If she was the only one in the car w custody and control of it, that is the relevant fact.
I haven't seen vid(s) and do not know ---
- whether she held or pointed gun at LE in a way that justified his using firearm.
- where gun was found after the shooting.
^ Two separate but relevant points.

IMO gun ownership is irrelevant.


 
Now am watching 15 min vid from LE that SuziQ linked in post 5.

5:00 min + mark



LEO fired his weapon.

LEO said -you see the 417 on the ground. (417 is code for gun.I think gun is on white street stripe, in front of her front passenger tire).
__ LEO said – you have me covered partner?


___After being shot, teen was laying on ground on freeway, w object in her right hand and was raising arm and pointing object (gun? phone?) at LEO (I paused vid there).

___ LEO said roll over on your stomach, put your hands to your side.

___ teen moves.

5:24 teen pushes/slides object several feet on ground, away from tself.
Could it be another gun? ^ At this point, teen could still pose a threat to LEO(s).
5:25+ teen complies w order to put hands behind back.


(Still watching vid)
 
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Anyone --
Feel free to fill in or correct ^ vid times and to add more info to timeline. TYVM.
My fingers are so slow, hard for me to transcribe, would like to get all of it, instead of skipping parts like above.
Also gotta leave the laptop for a while.
 
I suspected that this may be a suicide by cop. I was disappointed in the family's spin on it from the beginning.

I'm generally on the side of the family in these cases. But this one was a stretch from the beginning. I don't like that because it takes away credibility from the true unjustified police shootings.

It was clear that this cop didn't stop on the way to the vet to kill this girl. It didn't make sense why Hannah was driving the rental car.

I also didn't believe the cop knew Hannah was a POC or LGBTQ when he shot her. So I didn't believe that factored in either.

Focusing on helping other LGBTQ teens instead of attacking law enforcement would be a better use of the family's time.

I still wish the officer had waited to fire, but it wasn't my life on the line. Hopefully the officer can recover from this.

Sorry Hannah felt this was her only option.
 
Last night they showed the video of her, during the traffic stop, on the local KTLA news.

You can see her, on the body cam of the officer---she got out of her car and crouched down, in shooting position, pointing something at the cop---

It was too blurry to see on video what she was pointing---but I am sure it looked like a gun, to the cop, and he had good reason to be concerned that she got out and aimed something at him....

And they played a 911 call by her father, saying she was acting out, having mental health issues...

Very different narrative from what the family was putting out there.
 
I’m wondering if she had her cell phone in her Nathan DS trying to call her parents because she was pulled over and it was mistaken as a gun?
Hopefully her cell phone will show what time the last call was made.
bbm W quick wiki & google search, I did not find "Nathan DS." What is it? Thx in adv.

In Fullerton Cal PD youtube vid SuziQ posted, the still shots of her standing at front of car, body toward LEO, less than a car length away, and both arms up, w object in her outstretched hands in a shooting stance look pretty clear imo. A bit less clear in the original speed body-cam.
Several seconds later, there was a gun on freeway pavement a few/several feet from her.
`
Not following importance of timing of last phone call and if/how it relates to an object mistaken as a gun. @oceanstarryeyes or anyone else?
 
bbm W quick wiki & google search, I did not find "Nathan DS." What is it? Thx in adv.

In Fullerton Cal PD youtube vid SuziQ posted, the still shots of her standing at front of car, body toward LEO, less than a car length away, and both arms up, w object in her outstretched hands in a shooting stance look pretty clear imo. A bit less clear in the original speed body-cam.
Several seconds later, there was a gun on freeway pavement a few/several feet from her.
`
Not following importance of timing of last phone call and if/how it relates to an object mistaken as a gun. @oceanstarryeyes or anyone else?
If the last phone call was at the same time the officer pulled her over then it could have been her cell phone in her hand, not a gun.
Two witnesses said she was holding a cell phone. Another witness said she was holding a gun.

“Merritt has said at least three witnesses have been interviewed by cops, including two who reported seeing Williams get out of her rental car while holding her cellphone. But one witness claimed Williams was holding the replica handgun when she was shot, according to ABC News, citing unspecified media reports”


Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeway
 
But even if she was holding her cell phone, if she crouched down and pointed it at the officer, in a shooting stance, then he was acting reasonably in self defense.

Traffic cops are shot at every day, just as quickly as that. They have to react instantly, if someone gets out of the car and take a shooting stance.
 
Where in the video does it show her getting out of her car and crouching down in a shooting position?

Two witnesses said they saw her standing by her car holding a cell phone.

Maybe the crouching down was her falling down after she had been shot.
 
Where in the video does it show her getting out of her car and crouching down in a shooting position?
Two witnesses said they saw her standing by her car holding a cell phone.
Maybe the crouching down was her falling down after she had been shot.
Pls watch Fullerton Cal. PD youtube vid. 15 min.

Linked vid, 8 min:26 sec --- rightmost side of screen, a full length shot.
Close to front corner of passenger side of car, teen stands fully facing LEO, w her feet spread apart (1 ft?), arms up extended forward to shoulder level, w an object in her hands, w wrists extended in a gun handling posture.
Based on this LE body-worn cam vid, looks to me like it's a gun.

---Two witnesses saying they saw her holding a cell phone? I don't see anyone here disputing that or calling them liars or deluded. Entirely possible imo that the two witnesses saw her w cell imo.
--- Crouching? I missed other ref to that, but entirely possible imo that someone said they saw her crouching.
---Teen doing jumping jacks and deep knee bends beside the car? Entirely possible that she did imo, altho I have not seen/heard anyone saying she did.

But notwithstanding any or all of the above possibilities, the ultimate critical legal point is:
LE body-worn cam vid shows her w gun pointed at him which allows him to respond to deadly force by using his weapon in self defense. Well, except for those who believe
- the law is 'wrong' and LEOs should have no right of self defense, or
- the vid was monkeyed with.


All JMO, could be wrong.
 
Hannah Williams shooting: Cops to release footage of incident on California freeway
.... But one witness claimed Williams was holding the replica handgun when she was shot, according to ABC News, citing unspecified media reports.

bbm sbm
Did witness literally say 'replica gun'? Or 'a gun' which the witness later learned to be a replica gun but did not know that at the time of shooting?
Where was witness in relation to teen? How many yards? In car? On bicycle? Walking?
How could a witness could distinguish a replica gun from a non-replica gun, unless witness was only ~5 feet away?

How quickly did witness make that determination? One second? Two? Three? Was in no danger at the time or in discussing it afterward. Hindsight, 20/20.

An LEO facing a circumstance like this does not have time for leisurely deliberation.

 
I can believe that witnesses reported both gun and cell phone. Some may have seen the object, others may have just assumed what it was.

Although ultimately I think it's the stance that matters more than the object. Whether it's a gun or a cell phone or a toy dinosaur, if you point it at an officer in a shooting stance... you clearly want them to BELIEVE it is a gun. That belief is what they act on, not what the object actually is.

It bothers me a lot that the family has so misled everyone. There was simply no need to come out so accusatory. They could have come out saying "We just want to see the video to know what happened so we can understand."

When you come out claiming your kid is perfect and has never done anything wrong... when you know you called the cops on them that day, saying they were acting out... that's a problem. I hope that the family will now release a statement saying something more appropriate and true.

Just so sad that Hannah felt this was her only option. Perhaps her family will find an explanation among her possessions that will help them to understand.
 
Okay I watched the entire video. Here are the things I noted.

The officer was taking his K9 to the vet for an injury, not a check up. It was 7pm.

Hannah passed his marked squad speeding and then intentionally hit his vehicle when he attempted to pull her over.

Hannah then made a u turn (or maybe pitted herself when she hit the cop?) so that she was facing the wrong way on the freeway.

The body cam is silent for the first 30 seconds.

Hannah was out of her vehicle before the officer was out of his. That really surprised me.

The officer came around the back of her vehicle and found her in a shooting stance towards the front of her vehicle, pointing the gun at him. He fired, striking her in the left thigh and chest. She fell and dropped the (replica) gun.

The audio on the bodycam kicks on as he's reporting shots fired, requesting EMS and ordering Hannah to roll over onto her stomach and to put her hands to her side.

Hannah is begging for help and saying she can't breathe. The officer says they are going to help and asks where she is hit. She says her chest.

The cop puts a tourniquet on her leg to try and control that. They put a seal on her chest to try and control that. There really is not much blood.

Hannah only asks for help in what was released. She doesn't say anything else or ask why she was shot, the cop doesn't ask her what she was thinking, she just asks for help and he tries to help.

While the initial footage of the shooting itself could be better, I do think it's enough to show the cop acted reasonably. I think the quality issue is largely due to the shadow from them being on the side of the vehicle and how fast it happened.

He wasted no time in getting his medical bag and doing everything he could until EMS got there. However, listening to Hannah was heartbreaking.

There is a bystander who is right there and tells the cop it's a replica. He is also with Hannah telling her to stay with them. He also grabs the cops medical bag for him I believe. (These could have been other cops too but there was a bystander as well because he had to be told to stay back until the cop handcuffed Hannah while the other officer covered him.)

Around 8:30pm a 911 call was received from Hannah's father. He reported that she had taken the vehicle about 3 hours earlier and they couldn't reach or find her.

He was very emotional. He said she was on anti depressants and they were concerned she would harm herself.

He said he did not think she drank, did drugs or carried weapons. He was very clear that he didn't want to press charges for the car. He was very clearly very scared that his daughter wouldn't be coming home.

He didn't know what she was wearing but knew her description other than that. (5"6, about 190, white, they didn't ask hair and eyes or tattoos).

They were entering her into the missing persons and he was going to get the plate number from the rental company.

I think Hannah realized the mistake she made once she was shot. I wish they'd been able to give her another chance.

It was very emotional to listen to. I hope that the bystander and cop who tried to help Hannah will know they did what they could.

I'm still not pleased how the public was misled but I'm inclined to think that the family didn't initiate that. I think others latched on and just dragged the family along with them. Much like baby Chloe in PR and Jasmine in Texas.
 
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