CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

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citygirl said:
Do you think the jurors will get that?
MR really grilled him. He seems like a solid, unbiased witness, to me. At times he appeared frustrated by Maline's questions.
And, I did notice CM corrected Maline about a money amount. I think Maline said 4700 and CM said it was 6,000.
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As i said, I think this guy is easily the best defence witness to date, and he took a great shot at knocking off the motive aspect

I think he just compromised himself for no reason - silly mistake but maybe if you are in the game in the US you have to fan boy for your team

The more highly prized expert witnesses I knew in NZ didn't sell out their credibility, and that mattered a lot in big trials.

So anyway in terms of trial tactics, its clear he prepared a report a year ago, and then rushed some additional stuff together by yesterday. That's a good sign that Chase is being creative in the background with new versions.

Finally I would say, the witness cannot say whether Joey was using "alternative accounting" yet was prepared to go there, 100% against the multi year course of dealing he had just reviewed.

IMO the big picture is being missed.

With Chase reduced to his 15% model, paying off the debts to Joey was going to be far more difficult than under the 65% arrangement. Chase no longer had the cashflow.

That's why this has strengthened my view that the nexus for the murders was Joey's 42K email.

Also very interesting is the strong cash flow of this business (for a small business)

DK made out like a bandit.

That's probably my greatest question at the end of this testimony. DK and Chase had their snouts deep in the trough at most a week (DK) or immediately (Chase)

I would love to know what conversations happened between those two. A week is still potentially Joey on holiday. But DK seems to have realised he wasn't coming back pretty quick.
 
Texas Red said:
The analyses you make of criminal intent as it pertains to both CM’s and DK’s actions is interesting, IMO, criminal intent could be proved in both circumstances but unfortunately, since the statute of limitations has been exceeded, a criminal prosecution is now a moot point. Considering the fact that prosecution is no longer an option the point of including it now just muddles the true objective of finding the truth.


Their actions in this incident are pertinent to motive and this is where I see bias against CM, DK is given a pass on almost every one of his suspicious actions. The comment that I’m now replying to is a good example, I don’t believe I’ve seen you make any arguments in defense of any of CM’s actions? This is understandable considering you obviously believe him guilty. But, the point is why defend DK? Even if you believe CM guilty, doesn’t exclude DK from some type of potential involvement.
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BIB

If you actually go back to my posts I didn't "defend DK' - I responded to a post saying DKs actions should be treated as theft

So I offered a legal analysis of why it might be hard to make out - because of the need to prove intention.

The simple fact is it will be far easier to make out a criminal intent when there is an obvious fraudulent act. This indeed came up yesterday with the "hacking of Joey's Paypal". Assuming DK did the password reset, who gave him the pass reset mail? For example if Mike had access to Joey's email and helped DK do the pass reset - then "hacking in" with criminal intent suddenly looks a bit thin.

So yeah - maybe DK did have criminal intent - I just don't know. Personally I lean towards DK as a chancer who has totally made out like a bandit - possibly criminal - possibly not.

Chase on the hand is obviously criminal in forging Joey's signature, including while he was alive.
 
mrjitty said:
DK made out like a bandit.

That's probably my greatest question at the end of this testimony. DK and Chase had their snouts deep in the trough at most a week (DK) or immediately (Chase)

I would love to know what conversations happened between those two. A week is still potentially Joey on holiday. But DK seems to have realised he wasn't coming back pretty quick.
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It appears that you've turned over a new leaf.
 
mrjitty said:
BIB

If you actually go back to my posts I didn't "defend DK' - I responded to a post saying DKs actions should be treated as theft

So I offered a legal analysis of why it might be hard to make out - because of the need to prove intention.

The simple fact is it will be far easier to make out a criminal intent when there is an obvious fraudulent act. This indeed came up yesterday with the "hacking of Joey's Paypal". Assuming DK did the password reset, who gave him the pass reset mail? For example if Mike had access to Joey's email and helped DK do the pass reset - then "hacking in" with criminal intent suddenly looks a bit thin.

So yeah - maybe DK did have criminal intent - I just don't know. Personally I lean towards DK as a chancer who has totally made out like a bandit - possibly criminal - possibly not.

Chase on the hand is obviously criminal in forging Joey's signature, including while he was alive.
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SB gave DK access to the PayPal to pay for JM's older son's child support, is what she testified to at trial.
 
The DT was grasping for straws and DK was the final one. Sounds like that didn't go well for them either. I live in Hawaii so the fact DK was here was.especially interesting to me. You guys may be right. DK may have been next and if I were him I might not feel safe even now.
 
I think Dan knew something was wrong nearly straight away as he had worked with the man for years and emails were piling up and he can not reach him or Summer.

That’s not how Joey worked so he knew within days something didn’t add up and DK being a criminal took advantage of it. I think Micky did the same to some extent. Has it not been said during the trial he didn’t give the oldest son money like he claimed?

IMO
 
mrjitty said:
tldr

Having murdered Joey, he needed to then go create himself the cheques on the PM and Saudi jobs etc to get the money

This testimony makes it clear how the finances work - but provides no explanation why Chase took it upon himself to create the cheques, delete them and backdate them
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Rodriguez is ace.

This case reminds me of one of those kid's magic painting books where you paint water on the page and the colours start to develop.

It's about far more than the forged cheque on the 2nd. It was about waiting it out for Dan K to be paid off and Merritt replacing Joey with all the promised work coming down the pipe. No wonder he was mad with Dan.

Merritt was down to 15% since the summer before. Metro came on the scene. The tide had changed. Joey was moving up in the world, Merritt was moving in the opposite direction.

All imo.
 
LadyL said:
some of us (me ;)) know DK's a snake but also think that Chase Merritt did the ultimate misdeed
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ITA!

Exactly. They both were greedy snakes in the grass.

But there is simply no comparison to stealing money, compared to crushing the skulls in of all four victims which included two defenseless little boys. It's even more egregious if that financial greed of thievery was a motive to murder.

But standing alone, theft, fraud, forgery, etc. is never as serious of a crime as heinous homicides X 4.

Crimes known as white collar crimes are not even handled the same as quadruple murders or any premeditated murders for that matter... within our justice system for a valid reason.

That's when Merritt goes to the very top of the garbage heap all by himself in this case.

I'm sure Joey would have liked to have had a chance legally to take care of anyone who was stealing from him, rather than him being murdered in cold blood along with his entire family.

CM was THE ONLY ONE who made sure Joey never got any chance to correct what CM was doing to him or to confront others if needed.

CM is the one who made sure Joey was unable to protect his business, preventing it from happening where he couldnt take any proper legal remedies for what CM was doing to him.

Comparing the acts done by DK after the fact, and what all CM did throughout isnt even comparable. It's worse than comparing apples to oranges. There simply is no existing comparison for each of these two men, and what each one did.

It's like trying to compare the dangerousness of a garden snake to a pit viper.

DK deserves to be sued in civil court by Joey's estate administrators.

CM deserves to be thrown in the pits of hell where he belongs for everything he has done to all four of the Joey McStay family.

Imo
 
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citygirl said:
Do you think the jurors will get that?
MR really grilled him. He seems like a solid, unbiased witness, to me. At times he appeared frustrated by Maline's questions.
And, I did notice CM corrected Maline about a money amount. I think Maline said 4700 and CM said it was 6,000.
Click to expand...
The hacking comment made me feel like he wasn't unbiased. In all fairness though, his testimony might be solely based on what's been provided (or not provided) by the defense.

I'm looking forward to cross today. I think ADA Rodriguez will shred his testimony or clarify it at the very least.
 
Karinna said:
He did return didn't he around the 17th.? He helped SB keep JM's business afloat.
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That was meant tongue in cheek, alluding to DK being in Hawaii when the McStays were murdered.

I do think CM's hatred of DK occurred because DK was keeping CM from the pot of gold, and it was DK who first alerted folks to the missing McStays, who knows how much CM would have swiped had it not been for DK.

This isn't to say DK didn't put his own hand in the pot, but I think CM's animosity of him is directly related to money (and not how the business would be run going forward).
 
Texas Red said:
It appears that you've turned over a new leaf.
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Don't think so - but we've never had a detailed walkthrough of the dropship business before

With the good SEO, Joey was making good $$ there but with poor margin

Looks like DK diverted the sales to his own account in April approx (necessary to fulfil)

The wild speculation (not allowed by the judge) is then he failed to fulfil lots of orders
 
geevee said:
That was meant tongue in cheek, alluding to DK being in Hawaii when the McStays were murdered.

I do think CM's hatred of DK occurred because DK was keeping CM from the pot of gold, and it was DK who first alerted folks to the missing McStays, who knows how much CM would have swiped had it not been for DK.

This isn't to say DK didn't put his own hand in the pot, but I think CM's animosity of him is directly related to money (and not how the business would be run going forward).
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I agree

this is a whole aspect to the bigger picture that is fascinating, but post murder

IMO DK just out hustled Chase. In the end, he controlled the website and thus the rev.
 
Tortoise said:
Rodriguez is ace.

This case reminds me of one of those kid's magic painting books where you paint water on the page and the colours start to develop.

It's about far more than the forged cheque on the 2nd. It was about waiting it out for Dan K to be paid off and Merritt replacing Joey with all the promised work coming down the pipe. No wonder he was mad with Dan.

Merritt was down to 15% since the summer before. Metro came on the scene. The tide had changed. Joey was moving up in the world, Merritt was moving in the opposite direction.

All imo.
Click to expand...

BIB

Yes exactly - that is what is apparent from the spreadsheets. It's also why the 42K matters. In the 65% context, he had cashflow to address it - but in the 15% context not so much.

And as per forensic man, with Joey dead, it returned to Chase's 65% model.

problem is, the two scam artists couldn't run the business
 
asyousay said:
I think Dan knew something was wrong nearly straight away as he had worked with the man for years and emails were piling up and he can not reach him or Summer.
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I posted something about this months ago because it actually happened with my own business parter. I didn't get an answer to stuff on a friday and by monday i was in an utter panic. Turned out he had to drive his mother to ER - BUT when I sent a text saying dude I am now panicking - he did respond

2010 was already a highly connected time. The idea someone just goes dark on their sole proprietor business operations for a week?

Nah
 
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