CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #18

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Forensic dude really opened my eyes to the heart of the matter - cash

A lot has focussed on net position (e.g. 15K "overpaid" but usually in business cashflow is far more important

IMO the move from 65% to 15% destroyed Chase's cashflow and combined with his gambling issues (and no doubt debts all over town) led to the loss of his account. He didn't even have a bank account in the following couple of months

So while Chase was not paid 65% gross (Joey paid lots of invoices on behalf from Chase's end) it looks to me like Chase could still utilise that far more of that cashflow for himself and suppliers.

15% may ultimately be the true margin he was getting before (i.e. 50% costs) but it still heavily reduces your room to move. When you are getting big whacks of money you can stiff suppliers for months and pay only the hungriest mouths while diverting cash to yourself. On 15% that stuff catches up on you.

In previous years his 65% end had cashflow approaching 200K.

At 15% it is barely 45K

MR was right to focus on "financial health" - the man can't even get a bank account in late 2009, the big cheques are going to MSM - then suddenly in early feb he is rolling in cash. He knew the big numbers Joey was pulling down and that is what he was after.
If he had a bank account, could the IRS have garnished his income to pay themselves back the money CM owed them in back taxes?
(quote)
Which is to say, if the IRS is looking for you, you can’t hide.

So before the agency garnishes your wages and freezes you bank accounts – and before you pack a bag and flee the country – here’s what to do if you owe money and can’t pay.
https://money.usnews.com/money/pers...hat-to-do-if-you-owe-the-irs-but-you-cant-pay
 
Bulldog X (...cont) - onto the final straight Part 5

Witness misled that Defendant made deposits to Joey. What was really meant was that defendant banked cheques for EIP for Joey - it wasn't cheques from Chase (LOL)

Confirmed that Joey had to pay cheques to MSM on behalf of Chase - so this seems to validate argument at the beginning of the trial. Witness "misspoke on this"

MR jams witness up on the loss of revenue. Loss of 50% gross - i.e. all the margin on fabrication and all the cashflow.

Payments to CJ were noted as receipts for Chase - defence did not supply CJ bank statements

MR finally started to dig into how DK paid 10K to MSM for the fabrication of the Saudi job, yet Chase received direct cash plus the 3 cheques he wrote himself from Joey amounting to 25K ish - would be great to have a proper analysis of this job - but Chase seems to have done well on it


Sorry for all the posts but this was easily the most important defence witness IMO, so worth getting key points into discussion!
 
Bulldog X (...cont) - onto the final straight Part 5

Witness misled that Defendant made deposits to Joey. What was really meant was that defendant banked cheques for EIP for Joey - it wasn't cheques from Chase (LOL)

Confirmed that Joey had to pay cheques to MSM on behalf of Chase - so this seems to validate argument at the beginning of the trial. Witness "misspoke on this"

MR jams witness up on the loss of revenue. Loss of 50% gross - i.e. all the margin on fabrication and all the cashflow.

Payments to CJ were noted as receipts for Chase - defence did not supply CJ bank statements

MR finally started to dig into how DK paid 10K to MSM for the fabrication of the Saudi job, yet Chase received direct cash plus the 3 cheques he wrote himself from Joey amounting to 25K ish - would be great to have a proper analysis of this job - but Chase seems to have done well on it


Sorry for all the posts but this was easily the most important defence witness IMO, so worth getting key points into discussion!
Appreciate your posts and your understanding of it all.
 
Another answer to Cathy's earlier tweet about the jury... I'm personally surprised by the answers... but whatever, I think trying to read a jury is not easy and since we don't know what it is like on a daily basis there, it's hard to get a read with 1 or 2 tweets a month about them lol JMO

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @cathyrusson @KenneyBaden @RBianchiEsq
I have seen prosecutors win weak cases by sitting juries who fold to the "authority" wielded by the state. "Well, they have all these people looking into things; surely they are correct" is the attitude. It is incorrect legally, but it happens. 1/2

Aaron Keller‏ @AKellerLawCrime
Replying to @AKellerLawCrime @cathyrusson and
Furthermore, some juries see any attempt by the defense to put on a case as merely an attempt to "make an excuse," "evade punishment," etc. Hopefully this jury applies the burden of proof properly and realizes that the defense does not *need* to prove someone else did it. 2/2

And another lawyer's opinion...

Koribanics_Law‏ @mkoribanics
Replying to @RBianchiEsq @cathyrusson and
I agree with Bobby “ read em and weep” Bianchi. I would read laughter with such serious charges as good sign for the defense.

I stopped reading the chatters on L&C since the chat seemed so one sided pro defense. It seems it hasn't changed by the ones you have posted.

It reminds of another murder case where we only had one reporter in court. She constantly put the state down, and praised the defense continuously. Those following were so worried based on her comments, the victim wasn't going to have justice, thinking the verdict would be NG. Then BOOM! The verdict of GUILTY came back pretty quickly.

It was then we realized we had been spoon fed nonsense by the biased pro defense reporter.

Does anyone on there ever admit the state is doing a great job...not only in their own case, but during cross examinations or is it all high fives for the defense?

As for Kenny Baden I find her replusive,and crass. I realize she is the typical defense attorney who always sides with the defense. I remember how replusive she was in the Spector murder case. If it was up to KB she would want all murderers to walk free.

As far as the jury laughing doesnt mean anything either way except they get along well, and feel comfortable together.

During the trials I've been on as a juror as the weeks passed everyone became much closer due to the amount of time we spent together including short breaks, and at lunch. Two became my friends, and we still are today.

This jury will forge an even closer bond with each other since they have had an unbelievable amount of downtime where they are consistently waiting together as a group for something to happen.

So since they can't discuss the trial itself they bond friendships with each other based on talking about their families, and their daily lives outside of court.

Of course they laugh. They aren't robots, but human beings. Believe me, they have not forgotten the brutally 4 murdered victims or why they are there, and who they are to sit in judgment of when deliberations begins.

They are just trying to make the best of the trying situation they've found themselves in.

It's far better to laugh about how many times they've shown up for duty, and nothing or very little happened, than being angry, bursting out in tears from frustration.

It shows they are all in until the end. That's a great attitude to have. I commend them for their commitment to fulfill their duties to completion.

The main thing I'm glad to see is the jury seems to be bonding with each other.

Imo, there will be an unanimous verdict reached.

Imo
 
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I stopped reading the chatters on L&C since the chat seemed so one sided pro defense. It seems it hasn't changed by the ones you have posted.

sorry obe, I just got this alert and I don't even have time to read all of your post cuz I gotta get to work... just want to say, I find that the L&C chat is actually quite split with opinions about the case... I also find that although there are a lot of disagreements of opinions, it's a very respectful and light discussion... almost like we are 'adults' LOL right @la2cabo and @geevee ? LOL
 
It was then we realized we had been spoon fed nonsense by the biased pro defense reporter.

RSBM

One reason this happens (e.g. Pistorius/Knox spring to mind) is that sophisticated defence teams often have a media strategy for the trial and plant info with trusted journalists. it's a bit like sports. Some journalists are completely up a managers or players backside because he texts them tidbits on the side so they massage their source with favourable coverage.

(Not saying that is happening on this trial with has little coverage).
 
sorry obe, I just got this alert and I don't even have time to read all of your post cuz I gotta get to work... just want to say, I find that the L&C chat is actually quite split with opinions about the case... I also find that although there are a lot of disagreements of opinions, it's a very respectful and light discussion... almost like we are 'adults' LOL right @la2cabo and @geevee ? LOL
I agree the chat room is very friendly and funny. I think OBE is referring to the "talking heads" that I think appear on the network (tv) or maybe the chat room wasn't as friendly as it is now. The mods definitely don't tolerate rudeness.
 
I stopped reading the chatters on L&C since the chat seemed so one sided pro defense. It seems it hasn't changed by the ones you have posted.

It reminds of another murder case where we only had one reporter in court. She constantly put the state down, and praised the defense continuously. Those following were so worried based to her comments, the victim wasn't going to have justice, thinking the verdict would be NG. Then BOOM! The verdict of GUILTY came back pretty quickly.

It was then we realized we had been spoon fed nonsense by the biased pro defense reporter.

Does anyone on there ever admit the state is doing a great job...not only in their own case, but during cross examinations or is it all high fives for the defense?

As for Kenny Baden I find her replusive,and crass. I realize she is the typical defense attorney who always sides with the defense. I remember how replusive she was in the Spector murder case. If it was up to KB she would want all murderers to walk free.

As far as the jury laughing doesnt mean anything either way except they get along well, and feel comfortable together.

During the trials I've been on as a juror as the weeks passed everyone became much closer due to the amount of time we spent together including short breaks, and at lunch. Two became my friends, and we still are today.

This jury will forge an even closer bond with each other since they have had an unbelievable amount of downtime where they are consistently waiting together as a group for something to happen.

So since they can't discuss the trial itself they bond friendships with each other based on talking about their families, and their daily lives outside of court.

Of course they laugh. They aren't robots, but human beings. Believe me, they have not forgotten the brutally 4 murdered victims or why they are there, and who they are to sit in judgment of when deliberations begins.

They are just trying to make the best of the trying situation they've found themselves in.

It's far better to laugh about how many times they've shown up for duty, and nothing or very little happened, than being angry, bursting out in tears from frustration.

It shows they are all in until the end. That's a great attitude to have. I commend them for their commitment to fulfill their duties to completion.

The main thing I'm glad to see is the jury seems to be bonding with each other.

Imo, there will be an unanimous verdict reached.

Imo
So true about jury behaviors. I've been a juror and one for a few weeks. We all got along famously except for one juror who chose to eat alone. She turned out to be our lone hold out and wouldnt take part in our deliberations. So court watchers might want to observe jurors who behave like this, the laughter and bonding indicate zip imo
 
RSBM

One reason this happens (e.g. Pistorius/Knox spring to mind) is that sophisticated defence teams often have a media strategy for the trial and plant info with trusted journalists. it's a bit like sports. Some journalists are completely up a managers or players backside because he texts them tidbits on the side so they massage their source with favourable coverage.

(Not saying that is happening on this trial with has little coverage).

Thank you. I agree.

In the other case I mentioned email complaints were coming in fast, and furious to the news site the reporter was affiliate with. Complaining how she had totally mislead the public who was following the trial. It might as well been labeled fake news even way back then. Lol!

It's just flat out wrong for talking heads to sway the facts one way or the other based on anyone's personal agenda.

Report on both sides. It's really not that hard. Both sides usually bring out good points with the witnesses.

It goes sideways when among the court facts coming out from both sides in any trial, talking head opinions are interjected as if those are also facts in evidence to be considered ...when's its simply opinion based, and often biased.

Imo
 
sorry obe, I just got this alert and I don't even have time to read all of your post cuz I gotta get to work... just want to say, I find that the L&C chat is actually quite split with opinions about the case... I also find that although there are a lot of disagreements of opinions, it's a very respectful and light discussion... almost like we are 'adults' LOL right @la2cabo and @geevee ? LOL

Right, I find a pretty good split there but the convo rarely if ever devolves into argument or angry words. The most frustration displayed is with the court calendar. lol
 
Thank you. I agree.

In the other case I mentioned email complaints were coming in fast, and furious to the news site the reporter was affiliate with. Complaining how she had totally mislead the public who was following the trial. It might as well been labeled fake news even way back then. Lol!

It's just flat out wrong for talking heads to sway the facts one way or the other based on anyone's personal agenda.

Report on both sides. It's really not that hard. Both sides usually bring out good points with the witnesses.

It goes sideways when among the court facts coming out from both sides in any trial, talking head opinions are interjected as if those are also facts in evidence to be considered ...when's its simply opinion based, and often biased.

Imo

This stuff was really bad on the Pistorius trial - especially grifters like Mark Williams Thomas who got access to the defendant to make an exclusive 'documentary". Of course the price of access was a complete snow job.

Then of course Pisto went down for murder and it all doesn't look so clever - but hey ho!
 
So I wonder if the defence team are worried they have gone too "all in" on some DK dude did it?

According to the Opening, there was also supposed to be the shadowy band of 4 killers in 2 teams. Then the lurking DK with his fake alibi that the State failed to investigate - more as just one potential psychopath than the definitive killer.

But the way they case has played out - it feels like the defence is very committed to DK being the killer. So if that should get shot down suddenly the defence is in big trouble due to trial by narrative. I wonder if this is why they may not call Riccobene despite have promised the world in the opening?

In the famous words of Admiral Akbar ....
 
April Coronado certified fraud examiner for Union Bank in 2010 testified about that.


She spoke to DuGal in Feb 2010 about the cheques and he did nothing. I get so frustrated with that guy. Took 2 or 3 dogs there trained to notice stuff hidden or not visible to the naked eye but used his vision to decide they weren't needed in the house.

Went to San Ysidro but didn't get security footage for the whole of the 8th based on the security guy saying he thought he would have noticed the Trooper if it was there before 5 pm.
Dugal was asked in testimony if he took the dogs through the home and he stated that the warrants wouldn't allow for it. To me the dogs even being present at the home, if even only outside, speaks to his efforts and personal mindset that foul play may have been at hand.
 
Something I find remarkably casual in this Court is Maline wanders in with a drink while his colleague is addressing the Judge, meanwhile Deputy DA Imes is chatting with MR
Perhaps they should wear wigs.
 
Perhaps they should wear wigs.

Ha!

We don't wear those for many years - the only time I wore it was when I was admitted to the High Court as it is regarded as a special occasion. Gown and Wig! Judge wore the red robe and long wig!

I was in a case in germany recently and counsel still wears a black gown here. i don't think I wore that back in 96/97 in the High Court but actually i don't remember so well now.
 
What was the point of yesterday's questioning of Steers (or was it Hanke?) regarding the awning?

And what was proved by the paintball waivers? It didn't prove the two timed felon felon rode in the car with Joey. What am I missing?
 
Ha!

We don't wear those for many years - the only time I wore it was when I was admitted to the High Court as it is regarded as a special occasion. Gown and Wig! Judge wore the red robe and long wig!

I was in a case in germany recently and counsel still wears a black gown here. i don't think I wore that back in 96/97 in the High Court but actually i don't remember so well now.
Apparently, wigs are still worn in the criminal courts, I guess, in order to create an ambiance of solemnity? N0t being from that culture I always felt the wig wearing did quite the opposite.
 
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