CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #4

[Tortoise]

"McStay feed coming up. Warning, we're in a different courtroom and the signal sucks"

it sure does

 

[Funky funky]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Joey may have got into a fight with Chase at his home and was killed accidentally? Summer and the poor kids could’ve been coallteral damage? It’s a relatively small amount of money to murder a whole family over, and if the motive was money why not take the remaining £100k that was in the family bank accounts? I mean, if he was holding Joey for ransom over the passwords, then why not empty the other accounts? It’s just a thought. Maybe because I STILL just can’t get my head around the murder of those 2 kids.

 

[Emi]

Cathy Russon on Twitter
Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 4m4 minutes ago
#McStay - Our signal is going in and out. This hearing is being held in a different courtroom and the signal is no good. We are recording this and will have it in full later, but you can still watch live here:

 

[katydid23]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Joey may have got into a fight with Chase at his home and was killed accidentally? Summer and the poor kids could’ve been coallteral damage? It’s a relatively small amount of money to murder a whole family over, and if the motive was money why not take the remaining £100k that was in the family bank accounts? I mean, if he was holding Joey for ransom over the passwords, then why not empty the other accounts? It’s just a thought. Maybe because I STILL just can’t get my head around the murder of those 2 kids.

But if he killed joey by accident, why would he so brutally murder the babies?

 

[Funky funky]

But if he killed joey by accident, why would he so brutally murder the babies?

Summer would’ve been a witness, hence she had to go, the babies could’ve also indentified him.

 

[katydid23]

Russon:
"The gist is Ryan Baker, QuickBooks customer service rep is having surgery and prosecution wants to have him appear via video before surg which I believe is Thurs. Defense says they want him there"


The defense is complaining that they have not been given doctor's notes to prove the witness is having surgery or to prove he cannot travel...

 

[katydid23]

Summer would’ve been a witness, hence she had to go, the babies could’ve also indentified him.

Right. But he bashed their heads in with a hammer. If he had to kill someone, especially 2 toddlers, why use a brutal method like that?

 

[Deleted member 192280]

And what would the motive be for a hit? Nothing has been unearthed through the investigations. The only evidence found points to greed and CM.

The unlikelihood that one person did it all.

 

[katydid23]

The unlikelihood that one person did it all.

We have seen many cases where ONE person killed an entire family, or a group of victims. It is not impossible, nor unusual.

 

[Texas Red]

Never be nervous (or sad ) about people having an open mind about a case. I want to see more evidence before I make up my mind about what he is or isn't guilty of. Why would that make you nervous?

And in the end, none of us or our opinions about his guilt or innocence matter. We are simply people in a true crime forum who have become attached to this case and sharing our thoughts on it. Only the juror's opinions matter.

I don't think mothwing's, concern is directed towards having an open mind, it's quite the opposite.

 

[Funky funky]

Right. But he bashed their heads in with a hammer. If he had to kill someone, especially 2 toddlers, why use a brutal method like that?

If he had already killed their mother in that manner, then why not? I don’t think he would’ve been thinking too much about method. Murder is murder after all.

 

[katydid23]

Russon:The QuickBooks customer service rep that the state is going to call is having surgery and can't be there in the person. The defense is arguing they don't want to have him testify via video. Judge says he can testify via Skype. Arguments still going...


they are now arguing about the process of testifying by Skype, so I think we are making progress. The Defense really really really does not want the Quickbook guy to testify about that damning phone call...

 

[Deleted member 192280]

We have seen many cases where ONE person killed an entire family, or a group of victims. It is not impossible, nor unusual.

Sure, it's easy to kill an entire family at once, but usually it involves gunning down or stabbing or burning or bombing the whole family, leaving plenty of blood, signs of struggle, killer DNA, ETC. This case involves rounding up the family who may or may not have been at the same place the same time, driving them to the grave site in two vehicles, also driving the trooper to the Mexican border, and leaving no/little trace.

 

[Texas Red]

Thank you.

I'm confused.

Why would we not use CM to describe the killer when he is the one on trial???

I've never seen such a thing happen the entire time I've followed murder trials here and elsewhere.

The name of the one on trial is used in every trial to describe the killer so somehow it's supposed to be different for CM? I truly don't understand that or why.

As for the presumption of innocence that has long passed.

That is only the judicial standard the jury must go by before testimony starts being entered.

When they first sitdown defendants have that presumption before any testimony is heard. That is why they are told during jury instructions that openings and closings aren't evidence.

The presumption of innocence legally can erode away at anytime during the trial depending on the witnesses testifying that begins to sway that presumption

If the presumption of innocence lasted throughtout the trial then we wouldn't ever have fast verdicts. I have seen one murder trial have a verdict of guilty in 15 minutes which means the presumption no longer held up when it started at the beginning, and probably hadn't shortly after the witnesses started testifying and it kept crumbling.

As for believing he is totally innocent shocks me somewhat with the incriminating evidence in its totality that has already been entered,

I do respect whatever anyone wants to believe.

I would be very interested in knowing what facts have been entered thus far that convinces anyone he is a completely innocent man.

Being innocent, and being found NG aren't legally anything alike. No one is ever found innocent during any criminal trial.

Often in other cases when the jury speaks out after finding a defendant guilty it can be one of the earlier witnesses they heard from that they said was most compelling in finding them guilty so that shows in many cases the presumption doesn't last for very long.

Imo

If, as you say, CM had the presumption of innocence when the trial started, what evidence has been presented so far that has shown guilt. I initially thought CM was guilty but from what I’ve seen in the trial so far I don’t believe it has been proven.

 

[Tortoise]

The unlikelihood that one person did it all.

One weapon used and same extent of violence and depravity involved points to one person killing them all.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

If, as you say, CM had the presumption of innocence when the trial started, what evidence has been presented so far that has shown guilt. I initially thought CM was guilty but from what I’ve seen in the trial so far I don’t believe it has been proven.

This.

 

[katydid23]

Sure, it's easy to kill an entire family at once, but usually it involves gunning down or stabbing or burning or bombing the whole family, leaving plenty of blood, signs of struggle, killer DNA, ETC. This case involves rounding up the family who may or may not have been at the same place the same time, driving them to the grave site in two vehicles, also driving the trooper to the Mexican border, and leaving no/little trace.

If someone has the time and the privacy, which CM did, then it is doable.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

One weapon used and same extent of violence and depravity involved points to one person killing them all.

One person killing them all, quite possible, but unlikely one person rounded up the family, drove three vehicles around the same time, two to the grave site and one to the Mexican border. And without leaving any trace.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

If someone has the time and the privacy, which CM did, then it is doable.

CM was not the only one that had the time and privacy.

 

[katydid23]

If he had already killed their mother in that manner, then why not? I don’t think he would’ve been thinking too much about method. Murder is murder after all.

I disagree. We were on a camping trip once, and we had to help another family deal with a family pet that was gravely injured, by a wild predator, and in a lot of pain. They chose to put the animal out of his misery. They had a choice of how to do so.

Are you saying it would make no difference if they shot the animal in the head, quickly. Or they decided to take a rock and smash him in the head over and over, until he finally died? Is it the same thing?