CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[oceanblueeyes]

Ugh. Self delete. Duplicate post. Site is acting up for me at least. Sorry.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In reference to CJ calling Chase, IIRC in the prelim one of the detectives stated that Jarvis stated it was unusual for her to be able to get a hold of Chase, even though he would frequent casinos, he would answer if called. Something to that effect.

I truly hope CJ was not complicit with this but is becoming alarmingly clear that may be the case.

What interests me the most is to know if CJs statement to LE has changed any since they have long been apart now?

I think they most likely have interviewed her again since the PH was held to see if she may have remembered more concerning the day it happened, and all of the days afterwards.

Who's witness list is she on? Tia

We have often seen this happen in other cases when a live in partner is no longer in any kind of relationship with the defendant.

In fact, in several cases it was their helpful statement when they finally came forward to LE much later after the break up, and told them what they had known all along that finally lead to the case being solved.

I wonder if she saw any difference in what he may have been wearing that day or when she washed clothes? Just a thought.

At the time when these type of witnesses first gave a statement to LE some even admitted they had provided false alibis for the suspects when first questioned.

Sometimes their testimony can lead to them being one of the key witnesses in the case.

Will there be things she is willing to reveal now since the defendant has been locked up for years, and their relationship ended years ago? Did she say why their relationship ended in only 6 months afterwards?

She will now be able to look back without any emotional involvement.

If someone is able to finally look at everything with a more objective view from the outside looking in it can make them come to completely different conclusions.

Often they are able to see many things much clearer, and far differently than when they were in the middle of it at the time, where emotional attachments clouded their perspective, and choices they may have made back then or what they convinced themselves into believing at the time.

Imo

 

[A lucas]

What interests me the most is to know if CJs statement to LE has changed any since they have long been apart now?

I think they most likely have interviewed her again since the PH was held to see if she may have remembered more concerning the day it happened, and all of the days afterwards.

Who's witness list is she on? Tia

We have often seen this happen in other cases when a live in partner is no longer in any kind of relationship with the defendant.

In fact, in several cases it was their helpful statement when they finally came forward to LE much later after the break up, and told them what they had known all along that finally lead to the case being solved.

I wonder if she saw any difference in what he may have been wearing that day or when she washed clothes? Just a thought.

At the time when these type of witnesses first gave a statement to LE some even admitted they had provided false alibis for the suspects when first questioned.

Sometimes their testimony can lead to them being one of the key witnesses in the case.

Will there be things she is willing to reveal now since the defendant has been locked up for years, and their relationship ended years ago? Did she say why their relationship ended in only 6 months afterwards?

She will now be able to look back without any emotional involvement.

If someone is able to finally look at everything with a more objective view from the outside looking in it can make them come to completely different conclusions.

Often they are able to see many things much clearer, and far differently than when they were in the middle of it at the time, where emotional attachments clouded their perspective, and choices they may have made back then or what they convinced themselves of at the time.

Imo

Great points Ocean. My only concern is that even though she is not emotionally involved anymore she still may not tell it as it is.

The reason being, I summise, is the death penalty. She has kids with him and as a mum she possibly won’t want her kids to have to go through their dad dying as a result of her testimony. After all, what she says could be make or break for CM if she’s there for prosecution?

She may be principled and want to do the right thing but I imagine she has a huge dilemma on her hands.

What do you guys think?

 

[Bernina]

Great points Ocean. My only concern is that even though she is not emotionally involved anymore she still may not tell it as it is.

The reason being, I summise, is the death penalty. She has kids with him and as a mum she possibly won’t want her kids to have to go through their dad dying as a result of her testimony. After all, what she says could be make or break for CM if she’s there for prosecution?

She may be principled and want to do the right thing but I imagine she has a huge dilemma on her hands.

What do you guys think?

Last death penalty execution in California was January 2006 so unless something changes, I don't believe it would be an issue? There's 200+ California inmates with death penalty convictions so I would imagine most would die of old age before getting to the death chamber.

 

[A lucas]

Last death penalty execution in California was January 2006 so unless something changes, I don't believe it would be an issue? There's 200+ California inmates with death penalty convictions so I would imagine most would die of old age before getting to the death chamber.

Wow that’s interesting and may be a game changer for her when testifying.

I’m a bit clueless on death penalty as we don’t have it here in UK.

Where death penalty is more active I know they usually have to wait years anyway don’t they? With his ‘heart condition’ and ahem...‘old age’ you’re right he’s likely to die waiting if convicted.

 

[Plumeria5]

As I put myself in Summer's position and thought how I might react during the day on February 4th IF I knew that my husband was going to fire an employee that had been stealing from him...I would have been checking in throughout the day, texting, "How is it going?", "Have you told him yet?", etc. I don't believe Summer contacted Joey much in the early afternoon, if at all, but she did later on. That is why I am wondering if Joey kept a lot of this to himself, what he found out from the bank, etc. because he didn't want to upset Summer and would tell her after the fact.

 

[geevee]

Great points Ocean. My only concern is that even though she is not emotionally involved anymore she still may not tell it as it is.

The reason being, I summise, is the death penalty. She has kids with him and as a mum she possibly won’t want her kids to have to go through their dad dying as a result of her testimony. After all, what she says could be make or break for CM if she’s there for prosecution?

She may be principled and want to do the right thing but I imagine she has a huge dilemma on her hands.

What do you guys think?

We know she changed her story once, in a search warrant it mentioned she told them when she first said he was home watching a movie with her (on the 4th) she must have been remembering another evening.

Also, in a search warrant it states that after they broke up they stayed in contact with each other, he visited her often (maybe because of the kids) but they didn't separate and act like strangers or go to war with one another. I hope she'll testify and tell the truth about every single thing, but with the DP on the line, and them sharing kids, I don't know.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

P

Great points Ocean. My only concern is that even though she is not emotionally involved anymore she still may not tell it as it is.

The reason being, I summise, is the death penalty. She has kids with him and as a mum she possibly won’t want her kids to have to go through their dad dying as a result of her testimony. After all, what she says could be make or break for CM if she’s there for prosecution?

She may be principled and want to do the right thing but I imagine she has a huge dilemma on her hands.

What do you guys think?

Lucas, I totally agree with you, and your worry.

Maybe I am way too naive, but I would like to believe the best lesson she can teach her children is to always be honest no matter how hard it may be at the time.

I'm sure she has already told their children neither she or the children are to blame nor in any way responsible for their dad,s actions that caused him to be on trial for very serious crimes.

I think she knows he put his own personal rage, greed, and vendetta/ revenge first, and betrayed all of them by making that his number priority instead of his children, and their mom.

I think she already knows even if convicted, and given death it will never be carried out, and he will die from old age being cared for by the taxpayers.

Anyone who lives in CA already knows even though juries often find the death penalty the correct punishment in many...many...cases the government thumbs their nose and ignores the countless decisions they made never implementing what they painstakingly decided each time.

So I don't think she is that worried about it actually coming to fruition.

That is so well known even for those who don't even reside in CA.

I do have compassion for CJ and the children.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

I'm not positive but I think they both had the first generation google phones.

I just realized I posted the wrong link. I'll send the right one in a bit.

So I looked up the first generation google phone... it was the Nexus One, it was released in Jan 2010, only a month before their disappearance. I am thinking that maybe Summer's text didn't come through because his phone was locked up and it had to be rebooted... rebooting it would show an e-note on the phone records. Rebooting could also explain that quick internet access too (email program?)

Nexus One - Wikipedia

 

[missy1974]

The defense can hire a process server, anyone can really. So if they find him he can be served.

We actually have a PI who also serves them. So when he's serving he can give them an opportunity to talk and potentially avoid needing to be subpoenaed at all.

However, we are clearly way more efficient, so I have no idea what they might do here. Maybe send a message in a bottle? Or by balloon? Oh! Homing pigeons!

This is ridiculous seriously.

@ message in a bottle? Or by balloon? Oh! Homing pigeons!

But they don't have LE or the FBI at their disposal to serve him a subpoena, right? lol

 

[A lucas]

Thanks for letting me have your thoughts on Cathy Jarvis Ocean. Like you, I desp hope she does what’s right if called up to testify.

I’m disappointed to learn about the Cali death penalty hiatus. But the situation may help Cathy make the right decision and share everything she knows about those critical few days. I imagine it was an unforgettable time, for all the wrong reasons...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As I put myself in Summer's position and thought how I might react during the day on February 4th IF I knew that my husband was going to fire an employee that had been stealing from him...I would have been checking in throughout the day, texting, "How is it going?", "Have you told him yet?", etc. I don't believe Summer contacted Joey much in the early afternoon, if at all, but she did later on. That is why I am wondering if Joey kept a lot of this to himself, what he found out from the bank, etc. because he didn't want to upset Summer and would tell her after the fact.

I agree.

I believe Joey was doing all of this on his own purposefuuly, and he didn't want to involve Summer in any of it.

Once he had his meeting he knew he could fill her in on all of it later after he had confronted CM, and it was all over.

If he had told her ahead of time she could call often, and interrupt at an inopportune time.

I think Joey thought if she knew ahead of time she may have told him it would be unwise to meet Merritt anywhere when he was by himself.

That may be the reason Joey also felt he needed to meet this man only in a very public setting.

Imo, he knew before even leaving for the meeting it was going to become quite volatile, and he didn't want Summer involved. No doubt Joey knew by then how much CM disliked Summer.

No need to make it any worse than Joey knew it was already going to be.

Imo

 

[fridaybaker]

I know some believe Joey was first killed elsewhere, and I highly respect everyone who holds those views including those who have the belief CM had some kind of regret about murdering Joey, and was somehow more humane when doing so.

Imoo, I haven't seen anything that supports that conclusion based on the injuries he sustained.

I know I tend to go with the less complicated theory. I tend to believe the Occam Razor rule is usually the correct answer to the conclusion. Cases are never nearly as complicated as they are made out to be. I can see how others may totally disagree with me though.

Since everyone knows I didnt follow the years long held discussions it may be why I think differently than some or even most. Lol!

In the end, it was Joey that brought down CMs con game into a crash, and burn very quickly. HE is the one who went face to face, and probably nose to nose, with the defendant during a very contentious meeting that started what all would transpire in a few short hours afterwards.

Imo, in CMs mind at the time this was between him, and Joey. Joey had started all of this during that fateful meeting between these two men.

It then became a premeditated plan by CM of which one would be the last man standing when it was all over with.

I don't believe for one second CM had any hesitation in brutally murdering the man he knew was going to once again ...expose him for what he had been all of his adult life.

In fact, I think he planned to murder every one of them when they were altogether where it would cause the most emotional trauma/torture to Joey, most of all.

A husband, and father always feels it is their duty to protect all of their family. Yet, CM wanted to strip Joey of having any way to protect the ones he loved dearly, and he did.

What better way to put Joey through living hell than having to watch his entire family being murdered knowing he was bound, and helpless to stop any of it from happening?

Imo, CM wanted to see Joey beg, grovel, cry, and plead with him to please not hurt his family. Instead of having an ounce of compassion CM felt more empowered knowing Joey knew CM would be the one to decide whether they all lived or died.

Imo, after he had them all restrained inside of their home, he made Joey watch it all unfold.

He killed the boys, one by one in front of them both. Next he raped, and murdered Summer as Joey was made to watch.

After he had murdered all three he then turned to Joey, and he was sadistic and merciless.

The cord could have been a way to control/restrain Joey or even used to offload-yank or pull his larger body off into the gravesite.

Because joey was the largest victim he could have placed him on top of his dead family wrapped up in a cover where if seen only a bulky blanket would show if even seen.

Imo it's just more logical to me, and simpler to believe all 4 were killed at the same location than trying to figure out where Joey could have been murdered first at some unknown location which still remains unobtainable, and unknown.

Imo it's because there is only one murder location. Imo, its much simpler, and would cause more emotional torture, and suffering to not only Summer, but especially for Joey

LOL, this is only my simplistic opinion, and nothing more.

May justice prevail for these 4 victims who are so deserving of nothing less.

deleted

 

[fridaybaker]

I already addressed that in another comment. Perhaps he didn't know? In fact, if someone else killed JM, then CM was wrong to say he's the last person JM saw. He was sure about that, said "definitely", but he proved wrong.

The difference doesn't matter. If he had said "I was the last person he met with that day", it's clear those who want to believe he's guilty would do the same, using such a statement as indication of guilt.

Do you really think he meant to make sure the police didn't miss what he meant, that he killed them, by using "definitely" and not "probably"?

Why is it that the posters here who are of the opinion CM is guilty are characterized as "wanting to believe it"? The opposite doesn't happen: Whenever someone here posts something conflicting with that opinion, it's not characterized as "not wanting to believe it". The characterization is simply condescension, which isn't argument.

I can speak for myself only, but I can assure you and everyone here that my opinions are based on evidence presented, as well as many years of discussion and thought about all the elements of this case. I've not "wanted" to believe anything, in particular, about this case, frankly, except that before they were found I'd hoped they weren't dead -merely vacationing at their property in Belize.

So please, can we put it to rest the vilification of posters who posit guilt as just "wanting it" rather than having some basis for their opinion?

 

[fridaybaker]

Wow that’s interesting and may be a game changer for her when testifying.

I’m a bit clueless on death penalty as we don’t have it here in UK.

Where death penalty is more active I know they usually have to wait years anyway don’t they? With his ‘heart condition’ and ahem...‘old age’ you’re right he’s likely to die waiting if convicted.

A Lucas: Yes, some who receive the DP actually die from it, mostly it's insurance of a long life! People who are on death row seem to have endless appeals, and die of things like old age before they ever get to "old sparky".

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not certain Joey had time to tell Summer about the QB before he left that morning.

11.51 - 11.53 Joey calls the bank 2 mins
11.53 - 11.55 Joey calls Chase 2 mins
11.56 - 11.58 Joey signs into QB 2 mins
11.56 - 11.57 Joey texts Chase 1 min
12.15 - 12.22 Joey calls bank 7 mins - he is in Lake Elsinore 30 miles from home on I-15, that is 20 mins after called Chase. That is driving at 90 mph!

I don't see any calls to Summer after 11.51 and he was on calls for 11 minutes solid before he first called the bank at 11.51 - 11.53 and then presumably flew out the door.

 

[missy1974]

I've been thinking about Chase arriving a lot. The camera should have caught the truck. But why didn't it? It caught the one vehicle passing the house just before the truck left the driveway and the dodge arriving and pulling into the driveway the day before. If Joseph did arrive, it never caught his vehicle. And remember, there are TWO cameras.

And if Chase got there and backed into the driveway....and if the Trooper was parked in front of the house, I don't think anyone could have driven past the Trooper outside of the camera range, the Trooper would have been in the way.

 

[Tortoise]

And if Chase got there and backed into the driveway....and if the Trooper was parked in front of the house, I don't think anyone could have driven past the Trooper outside of the camera range, the Trooper would have been in the way.

It would be in camera range, but they (prosecutors) wouldn't be able to link it, or any other vehicles going past, to the McStay house because it doesn't turn in on the camera range. There are vehicles that go straight ahead that they don't mention.

When it's backing in the most seen on the camera would be a glow from lights but the actual headlights would be out of range.

 

[Cricket28]

Last death penalty execution in California was January 2006 so unless something changes, I don't believe it would be an issue? There's 200+ California inmates with death penalty convictions so I would imagine most would die of old age before getting to the death chamber.

ITA
Even if CM is convicted and given the death penalty. it will never happen, not in CA.
However, inmates on death row are denied some of the privileges the other inmates are given. So there are other reasons to give him the death penalty besides death. If that makes any sense.

MOO MOO MOO

 

[missy1974]

I'm not certain Joey had time to tell Summer about the QB before he left that morning.

11.51 - 11.53 Joey calls the bank 2 mins
11.53 - 11.55 Joey calls Chase 2 mins
11.56 - 11.58 Joey signs into QB 2 mins
11.56 - 11.57 Joey texts Chase 1 min
12.15 - 12.22 Joey calls bank 7 mins - he is in Lake Elsinore 30 miles from home on I-15, that is 20 mins after called Chase. That is driving at 90 mph!

I don't see any calls to Summer after 11.51 and he was on calls for 11 minutes solid before he first called the bank at 11.51 - 11.53 and then presumably flew out the door.

And maybe he didn't want to tell her yet? Maybe he wanted to be sure before telling her... she already didn't like Chase, it would just be one more reason not to like him. I could see Joey not telling her everything, just knowing what he know about Summer. She was no nonsense, spoke her mind, and didn't always get along with everyone because of it (it wasn't just Chase).