CA - Joshua Tree parents arrested for keeping kids in a box for 4 years, Mar 2018 *Charges Dropped*

[EuTuCroquet?]

There are kids all over the world living in worse conditions than a 200 square foot wooden box and we don't consider them abused, they are just poor.

So how does this one equal abuse? Poor isn't abusive.

Help me understand, TeaTime. Three children locked in a box underneath a trailer with no access to electricity or running water, and a home overrun with filth and cats isn’t cruelty or abuse because ... ?

Apologies if I missed in the story where the parents are poor. Is that a thing in America? Poor people can keep their kids restrained in boxes? Is that legal in California?

 

[Yellow Rose]

From what I read they OWNED the land at least. This sort of "tent city" life seems to be all over the west coast now. Wish Hollywood would spend less time criticizing the rest of the world and spend some of their billions on cleaning up and assisting with the needful.

 

[Trident]

It may come as a surprise to some of you, but the pioneers lived in "houses" made of sod. They were called "soddies", made out of dirt cut from the prairies. People in other countries live much worse. Why do we think everyone is entitled to a perfect life?

 

[Lilibet]

Help me understand, TeaTime. Three children locked in a box underneath a trailer with no access to electricity or running water, and a home overrun with filth and cats isn’t cruelty or abuse because ... ?

Apologies if I missed in the story where the parents are poor. Is that a thing in America? Poor people can keep their kids restrained in boxes? Is that legal in California?

Just to be clear, it doesn’t say the children were “locked” in a box. They lived in the box with their parents, without sanitation and in filth on filthy property, which is certainly bad enough. It doesn’t seem that we have a Turpin family situation here. But no, even the relatively free but disgusting living conditions are not legal, especially for children. I can’t understand why anyone would defend this just because people in other countries may live in substandard conditions. Living amidst feces is a choice.

 

[Lilibet]

It may come as a surprise to some of you, but the pioneers lived in "houses" made of sod. They were called "soddies", made out of dirt cut from the prairies. People in other countries live much worse. Why do we think everyone is entitled to a perfect life?

No surprise here. I read “The House by Plum Creek” and you can be sure that Ma and Pa Ingalls worked hard to keep it as clean as a sod house could be. There is a difference between living in a house made of sod or a house with a dirt floor and and in a box or shack with feces. I’m shocked that anyone is defending this and acting like it’s OK!

As I mentioned earlier, it is possible to be poor and keep your home relatively clean. Plenty of third world people do just that. Animals don’t sleep or eat where they defacate. Cats bury theirs. I expect at least that of humans in any country. Basic sanitation is not “perfection.” And yes, children are entitled to the basics, even if their parents choose to live in squalor, as it appears these parents did.

 

[flourish]

This may shock all you, but kids used to work in the coal mines and factories. And in other countries kids are pimped out on the regular. And lots of children used to not have plumbing and everyone totally just pooped wherever without designating and creating latrines or outhouses or holes in the ground. So, like, don't be so culturally intolerant.. it's not like society evolves or child welfare laws exist. Geez, so jydgy!

 

[Lilibet]

This may shock all you, but kids used to work in the coal mines and factories. And in other countries kids are pimped out on the regular. And lots of children used to not have plumbing and everyone totally just pooped wherever without designating and creating latrines or outhouses or holes in the ground. So, like, don't be so culturally intolerant.. it's not like society evolves or child welfare laws exist. Geez, so jydgy!

I certainly hope you just neglected to indicate sarcasm. But just in case this is for real, I think we are all well aware that children are mistreated worldwide. Why is it “culturally intolerant” and “judgy” to expect parents everywhere to do the best they can for their children under their circumstances. Just because children are treated poorly elsewhere doesn’t mean we need to think it’s OK. I must have missed that memo.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

It may come as a surprise to some of you, but the pioneers lived in "houses" made of sod. They were called "soddies", made out of dirt cut from the prairies. People in other countries live much worse. Why do we think everyone is entitled to a perfect life?

???

People still live in sod houses, and some people live in homes with dirt floors.

America isn’t a third-world country.

Would you be cool with your three kids or grandkids living in a 4”-tall box under a house, surrounded by filth?

 

[flourish]

I certainly hope you just neglected to indicate sarcasm. But just in case this is for real, I think we are all well aware that children are mistreated worldwide. Why is it “culturally intolerant” and “judgy” to expect parents everywhere to do the best they can for their children under their circumstances. Just because children are treated poorly elsewhere doesn’t mean we need to think it’s OK. I must have missed that memo.

Oh it was super sarcastic

 

[Lilibet]

Oh it was super sarcastic

Whew! You had me going there!

 

[Trident]

???

People still live in sod houses, and some people live in homes with dirt floors.

America isn’t a third-world country.

Would you be cool with your three kids or grandkids being locked in a 4”-tall box under a house?

Show me where/link that they were "locked" in a box. TIA

Many people live in housing half in/half out of the ground to regulate temperature. From what I read, the cats/feces were in the trailer, not in the box. Maybe everyone should have their own bedroom with a tv/computer/I Pod/box of chocolates, etc. In some places life is rough. In the desert, it is better to be somewhat in the ground to keep the temperature down. I've been to Joshua Tree.

I can't see these parents were abusive or didn't love their kids. Maybe they did the best they could, and didn't chain them up. Maybe they taught them good values, better than some raised in opulence such as the Menéndez brothers, who killed their parents and now reside in the opulence of prison. I don't know for sure what the truth is here, and neither does anyone else.

:cow:

 

[flourish]

There is a lot of room between a plywood box and a mansion. Seriously people, the police thought there was enough evidence and they've been charged with child cruelty. So maybe we don't know the entirety of the situation, but the police who WERE there thought it rose to a level of being dangerous.

I'm appalled this is being defended! Living simply doesn't involve piles of feces.

 

[LaborDayRN]

From what I read they OWNED the land at least. This sort of "tent city" life seems to be all over the west coast now. Wish Hollywood would spend less time criticizing the rest of the world and spend some of their billions on cleaning up and assisting with the needful.

This is true. There are "tent cities" with children in many parts of the US. There are families living in their vehicles with children. Is it abuse or is it neglect? I personally feel children should be removed from this type of situation. Possibly place with extended family or in foster homes until the parents can get back on their feet.

Just to clarify a couple of things, if you watch the video near the beginning of this thread. There is an interview with a neighbor. He feels there wasn't abuse. He say's the family is poor, but that's not abuse. It doesn't appear the children were "locked" in the box.

 

[Lilibet]

Show me where/link that they were "locked" in a box. TIA

Many people live in housing half in/half out of the ground to regulate temperature. From what I read, the cats/feces were in the trailer, not in the box. Maybe everyone should have their own bedroom with a tv/computer/I Pod/box of chocolates, etc. In some places life is rough. In the desert, it is better to be somewhat in the ground to keep the temperature down. I've been to Joshua Tree.

I can't see these parents were abusive or didn't love their kids. Maybe they did the best they could, and didn't chain them up. Maybe they taught them good values, better than some raised in opulence such as the Menéndez brothers, who killed their parents and now reside in the opulence of prison. I don't know for sure what the truth is here, and neither does anyone else.

:cow:

They were not “locked” in the box. However, in the first link it refers to “human feces” scattered on the property, not just cat feces in the trailer. That is a health hazard. There was not enough food available. That is not doing the best they can for their kids. As I linked above, San Bernardino County provides a multitude of services, including food. As far as how they were raised or whether they loved their kids, no, we don’t know. Hopefully, this will all get sorted out and the children can return to their parents under safer conditions, if that is possible.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Are. You. Effing. Serious??????????????

I can't with people like this. I can't even call them people.

 

[seattlechiquita]

There is a lot of room between a plywood box and a mansion. Seriously people, the police thought there was enough evidence and they've been charged with child cruelty. So maybe we don't know the entirety of the situation, but the police who WERE there thought it rose to a level of being dangerous.

I'm appalled this is being defended! Living simply doesn't involve piles of feces.

Exactly. And saying that "oh well, they weren't chained" makes the neglect and disrepair ok just gets me so angry. If you decide to have children, it is your responsibility to provide a safe and clean environment where they can develop and thrive. A place where there is caca strewn about ain't one of them.

 

[gitana1]

Is this where you would like your grandchildren to live?

With child welfare laws the issue that comes into play is health and safety. Living among animal and human feces with no water is a risk. This is more than a messy house.

If this abode is fine for you, your children or your grandchildren, then all right.

For me, it is not ok

Ok, so the fact that they weren't chained in a box explains the 100k bail amount, which is reasonable under the circumstances.

The bottom line is this is considered neglect in our state, and in I think all US states and it is considered willful cruelty to a child in California. Not because they're poor or choose to live off the grid. But because they willfully failed to provide adequate care and created a seriously unsafe environment.

Here are the applicable statutes:

CHAPTER 2. Abandonment and Neglect of Children [270 - 273.75]

270.

If a parent of a minor child willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary clothing, food, shelter or medical attendance, or other remedial care for his or her child, he or she is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. If a court of competent jurisdiction has made a final adjudication in either a civil or a criminal action that a person is the parent of a minor child and the person has notice of such adjudication and he or she then willfully omits, without lawful excuse, to furnish necessary clothing, food, shelter, medical attendance or other remedial care for his or her child, this conduct is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year or in a state prison for a determinate term of one year and one day, or by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by both such fine and imprisonment. [SNIP].
The court, in determining the ability of the parent to support his or her child, shall consider all income, including social insurance benefits and gifts.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=270.

273 a.

(a) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of that child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits that child to be placed in a situation where his or her person or health is endangered, shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison for two, four, or six years.
(b) Any person who, under circumstances or conditions other than those likely to produce great bodily harm or death, willfully causes or permits any child to suffer, or inflicts thereon unjustifiable physical pain or mental suffering, or having the care or custody of any child, willfully causes or permits the person or health of that child to be injured, or willfully causes or permits that child to be placed in a situation where his or her person or health may be endangered, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=273a.&lawCode=PEN

So it appears that they failed to provide adequate care for their kids in a way that endangered the health, welfare and safety of those kids. Having feces IN the house as well trash everywhere (it looked like a dump) and 30-40 cats, surely qualifies:

[FONT=&amp]"...mounds of trash and human feces were found throughout the property, the statement said. About 30-40 cats were found inside the trailer and roaming freely.

The trash pile that 3 Joshua Tree children have been living in for the last 4 years can be seen from space via google maps."
[/FONT]
http://abc7.com/joshua-tree-couple-arrested-after-3-kids-found-living-in-box/3161477/

The parents were booked on suspicion of willful cruelty to a child.

IMO, this is not just poverty. Not close.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Show me where/link that they were "locked" in a box. TIA

Many people live in housing half in/half out of the ground to regulate temperature. From what I read, the cats/feces were in the trailer, not in the box. Maybe everyone should have their own bedroom with a tv/computer/I Pod/box of chocolates, etc. In some places life is rough. In the desert, it is better to be somewhat in the ground to keep the temperature down. I've been to Joshua Tree.

I can't see these parents were abusive or didn't love their kids. Maybe they did the best they could, and didn't chain them up. Maybe they taught them good values, better than some raised in opulence such as the Menéndez brothers, who killed their parents and now reside in the opulence of prison. I don't know for sure what the truth is here, and neither does anyone else.

:cow:

I read the updated story, as my latter posts reflect.

Put the cats somewhere else to begin with, maybe? Don’t let garbage overwhelm your home, for the kids’ health and safety? (Even if that home is a plywood box with a plastic tarp for a roof, in the desert.) Maybe keep the human feces and garbage away from the children instead of letting them live in it?

Just throwing that out there.

Yes, they were homeless. They allegedly also weren’t properly caring for the basic needs and health of their children, according to police.

The two aren’t synonymous.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.news...arving-children-live-plywood-box-827689?amp=1

“The children were found hungry and living among garbage, debris and human feces at the makeshift property, which had no electricity or running water. A trailer was also found near the box containing around 30 to 40 freely roaming cats.”

 

[human]

I want to scream! No wonder the US is so disturbed. People are defending this for children! I wonder how many people would let their grandchildren live like this and think it was a swell environment? How many people would live like this and think it was OK?

They are living in a garbage dump!

Some people are hoarders and cannot let go of their junk. They see it as precious. Others see it as junk.

On Hoarders, which I have never seen, people have told me the places are cleaned up and soon they are back to a mess.

Anyone who voluntarily lives among feces has issues. It is a health hazard. Can you imagine the smell out in the heat? Where did they get all of the large toys?

 

[WestieMom]

.....