GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[Chewy]

The more I think about it the more it does seem believable that someone would lie to include themselves in an issue like this. I've witnesses someone flat out lie about details that then went to the press and corrupted the entire investigation. (Or at least discussions) and in the end when evidence came out to prove the person was getting the details wrong they played victim and said they were being persecuted.

So I guess maybe the witness wanted the attention and the involvement?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

A neighbor was outside watering flowers and heard no screams? Someone being stabbed that many times would be screaming and since her bed was taken, was she sleeping when this happened? If she was, it would take away the excuse of a bad temper, because she did something wrong and he attacked her.

Unless the neighbor was right outside the window...how would he hear? Wasn't the neighbor across the street? I can't hear anything from my neighbor's house. Also, blue22 posted that her father was stabbed, and he said that you lose your ability to scream out when it is happening.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This is all I could find, but it is about dependency court, not criminal.

Other important things to do at the early in the case

The Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 (ICWA) ((Pub.L. 95–608, 92 Stat. 3069, enacted November 8, 1978), codified at 25 U.S.C. §§ 1901–1963.[1]) is a Federal law that governs jurisdiction over the removal of Native American (Indian) children from their families.

ICWA gives tribal governments a strong voice concerning child custody proceedings that involve Indian children, by allocating tribes exclusive jurisdiction over the case when the child resides on, or is domiciled on, the reservation, or when the child is a ward of the tribe; and concurrent, but presumptive, jurisdiction over non-reservation Native Americans’ foster care placement proceedings.[2]

I don't think this would be relevant in a murder case?

 

[Ghostwheel]

The more I think about it the more it does seem believable that someone would lie to include themselves in an issue like this. I've witnesses someone flat out lie about details that then went to the press and corrupted the entire investigation. (Or at least discussions) and in the end when evidence came out to prove the person was getting the details wrong they played victim and said they were being persecuted.

So I guess maybe the witness wanted the attention and the involvement?

Now that just gives me the creeps.

 

[dinaslala]

I’s hair was cropped short, and he wore a green jumpsuit and had chains around his waist. Throughout the proceeding, he remained calm and fairly unexpressive. He chuckled at one point after the bailiff made a comment to him and a nearby Calaveras County Probation Officer. In contrast to I’s behavior, his biological father, Barney, and mother, Patricia Rodriguez, cried softly with looks of agony on their faces while sitting in the front row of the courtroom.

Calaveras County District Attorney Barbara Yook is representing the county on this case, and her petition to the judge charges Isaiah with second degree murder along with a special allegation that he personally used a knife in commission of the crime.

I’s legal team, Sacramento-based lawyers Mark J. Reichel and Steven Plesser, did not enter a plea for their client. Instead, they asked Martin for a two-week continuance, which he granted after Isaiah agreed to waive time.

Martin took Calaveras County Probation Department’s recommendation and sent Isaiah back to Juvenile Hall instead of allowing him to be released into the care of his family.

snipped

I’s defense counsel said the family had requested the media and public not be allowed in the courtroom in future proceedings – a request Martin denied without prejudice.

“I see no impairment to the child’s right to a fair trial,” he said.

Despite a hoard of media bombarding the Fowler family on their way in and out of the courtroom, they made no comments Wednesday.

I is schedule to appear in court at 1:15 p.m., Wednesday May 29. He may later face a jurisdictional hearing, which is similar to a trial without a jury. If he is found guilty, he will be sentenced at a later hearing.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_e06c961e-bda2-11e2-8813-001a4bcf887a.html

Dammit, why cant PRISCILLA get an ounce of respect? lease::banghead:

 

[blue22]

Unless the neighbor was right outside the window...how would he hear? Wasn't the neighbor across the street? I can't hear anything from my neighbor's house. Also, blue22 posted that her father was stabbed, and he said that you lose your ability to scream out when it is happening.

I should have noted before, it depends on where she was stabbed. I have always assumed in was in her mid section area. (Stomach, ribs, lungs, heart area.) That's where he said it's hard to make a lot of noise. If she was being stabbed in other areas, she could have screamed. I still doubt he would have heard, even if she did scream.

I still think the kid did it, but I don't think the neighbor not hearing anything is very important.

 

[MsFacetious]

Lawyer: Is boy mature enough to aid murder defense

Plesser said neither he nor his law partner Mark Reichel had seen the evidence that led the Calaveras County district attorney to charge the boy.
Still, they believe he is not guilty of the crime that terrified the rural community of Valley Springs and baffled investigators and the FBI for two weeks.

"We have no reason to have any doubts about our client's innocence," Plesser said.

-----------------------------

"We have questions," Plesser said. "Why do the police think the minor did this? Why would a 12-year-old commit an offense like this?
And how did it not lead to an immediate arrest and it took 2,000 hours of resources by the sheriff's office and the FBI? We're confident we'll get the answers when we examine and test the evidence."

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=25171053&ni...murder-defense-&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-3

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The neighbor who said she saw Barney spoke out more than once:

May 1:

Christy Lawson lives three doors down from where Fowler was killed and said she witnessed a harrowing scene at about noon Saturday.

Lawson said a man who she believed to be Barney Fowler, Leila’s father, came to the edge of her driveway.

“He was white as a ghost,” she said. “He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

“He said, ‘Have you seen anything?’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘Is she OK? Is she OK?’” Lawson recalled. “He said, ‘No. She’s not OK.’”

May 13:

Other neighbors wondered why the boy didn’t come out of the house looking for help.

“No screaming, no yelling, no ‘bloody murder’, the dogs didn’t bark,” said neighbor Christy Larson.

 

[Shwalt00]

The neighbor who said she saw Barney spoke out more than once:

May 1:



May 13:

Unless Barney told the neighbor that his daughter had been stabbed, how would she know to ask if SHE is ok? Why wouldn't she ask if both children were ok? Did she know what happened even before Barney came over??

 

[ilovemew]

Unless Barney told the neighbor that his daughter had been stabbed, how would she know to ask if SHE is ok? Why wouldn't she ask if both children were ok? Did she know what happened even before Barney came over??

“He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

Maybe that's how.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Unless Barney told the neighbor that his daughter had been stabbed, how would she know to ask if SHE is ok? Why wouldn't she ask if both children were ok? Did she know what happened even before Barney came over??

The reporter probably left out some of the conversation. Barney could've told the neighbor that Leila was attacked, asked her if she saw anything, and then the neighbor asked if Leila was okay.

 

[Dee10]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...r-8-article-1.1345163?localLinksEnabled=false

"Experts said, based on the circumstances known so far, the case was a very unusual one.

Kathleen Heide, a University of South Florida criminologist and author of the book, "Young Killers: The Challenge of Juvenile Homicide," told Reuters, "Killings by 12-year-olds are very, very rare."

She said jealousy, sibling rivalry, anger, mental illness, accidents and a preoccupation with violent imagery tend to set off killings of a brother or sister.

Franklin Zimring, a University of California at Berkeley School of Law professor, concurred. "Lethal violence with 12-year-olds is extraordinarily rare," he said."

 

[Davereid]

The more I think about it the more it does seem believable that someone would lie to include themselves in an issue like this. I've witnesses someone flat out lie about details that then went to the press and corrupted the entire investigation. (Or at least discussions) and in the end when evidence came out to prove the person was getting the details wrong they played victim and said they were being persecuted.

So I guess maybe the witness wanted the attention and the involvement?

It is really sad but I have no doubt there are countless people who would do that. Too many people want their fifteen minutes of fame. They would take advantage of a terrible situation to do so. Either way they are getting attention. But they probably did not consider the down side of it-the other disturbed people. I am sure they will be getting death threats, mean letters and phone calls.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

A neighbor who only gave his first name as Don, was watering his roses within sight of the home where Leila was stabbed said didn’t see or hear any commotion at the house during the time of the incident.

“If I had stabbed a girl, I’m running out of the front of that house and taking off. . .I didn’t see nothing come out of that house,” said Don.

Hmmm...I wonder if Don saw Barney walking down the street? I would love to know the exact times he was outside.

 

[MsFacetious]

In other news, this isn't the first time a boy this age stabbed his younger sister to death...
(For anyone struggling to believe it.)

4-year-old fatally stabbed; 13 yr old brother arrested - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

“He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

Maybe that's how.

You think this neighbor could identify Leila's blood imprint from the bloody imprint on a shirt? :scared:
Could tell that it wasn't any other child or person?
Wow.
I think that is extremely unlikely.
There's obviously more to the conversation that we were not told about.

 

[Shwalt00]

“He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

Maybe that's how.

I know, but I was just wondering how she knew the imprint belonged to Leila. It just struck me as odd, is all.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

That neighbor also said:

“I wish I could have seen that guy running through my backyard. I would have tackled him right below the knees … and held him until someone else could have come,” Lawson said.

So IDK maybe she likes to exaggerate?

 

[MsFacetious]

I think that Ella's case is a very good look into the future for this case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9439276&posted=1#post9439276

Her older brother is now 20 years old. (He killed Ella at 13.)
Her mother is much further along this journey than Leila's family is.
Her mother does not believe her son should be released and believes he is still a danger.
I think Leila's family could learn a lot by talking to Ella's mother, or even just reading her story. :twocents:

 

[tlcya]

The neighbor who said she saw Barney spoke out more than once:

May 1:



May 13:

Unless Barney told the neighbor that his daughter had been stabbed, how would she know to ask if SHE is ok? Why wouldn't she ask if both children were ok? Did she know what happened even before Barney came over??

Excellent point! How DID she know to ask AT THE TIME if SHE was okay?

The reporter probably left out some of the conversation. Barney could've told the neighbor that Leila was attacked, asked her if she saw anything, and then the neighbor asked if Leila was okay.

I guess but reporters were so hot to talk to neighbors right after and seemed so anxious to quote them in news articles, you would think they would put the whole conversation between BF and CL in there in its entirety or at the very least, as the case was waning and less information was forthcoming they would add the quotes they hadn't previously used as filler for those oh so sparse articles after the pressers ended and LEO clammed up.

interesting. Just one more thing to mull over.

 

[tlcya]

“He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

Maybe that's how.

I don't think a bloody imprint on a shirt would identify a male or female victim by its appearance. Maybe Eileen has the answer in her post and the reporter just didn't quote the entire conversation but just sound bites. I find that odd but possible.