CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981
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I don't normally quote myself, LOL, but it's too late to edit that post and I wanted to clarify something. I read the above-mentioned chapter and that derogatory quote was said by a studio head in reference to Judy Garland, not Natalie Wood.
I still say, why use a picture of Natalie to illustrate that chapter title page? It would have been more appropriate to show a picture of Judy Garland. Very odd.
redheadedgal
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1) yes-- i copied the part that answered your question.
the case is still considered an accident and the re-investigation is still open. if and when the case status is changed to homicide, suspects may or may not be publicly named.
eve?
2) blogs and wiki are not official rules and regulation sources imo
3) eve-- did you read that legal site? "owner" is mentioned several times as the responsible party, correct?
4) in a sense though he trying to be NW's hero... trying to get justice for her now... better late than never imo.
5) columbo, thanks!
redheadedgal
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i am awaiting several books myself... will post anything interesting found when i am able to dive into them.
redheadedgal
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i was just reading some online reviews of RWs book... even he blames himself and himself only for her death. from his book:
‘I’ve had several decades to think about what happened,’ he wrote. ‘My conclusion is that Natalie (the coroner later estimated that the actress had drunk seven or eight glasses of wine) heard the dinghy banging against the boat and slipped trying to retie it. ‘Others have suggested she was trying to get away from the argument. But nobody really knows. Did I blame myself? If I’d been there, I could have done something. I wasn’t, but, ultimately, a man is responsible for his loved one. Yes, I blamed myself.
another site i read earlier this weekend mentioned that DD specifically remembers he had already made sure the dinghy was tied up tight that evening so there was no way it was banging the boat/making noise. i'll try to find that source...
the info is from Goodbye Natalie Goodbye Splendour p. 288/289
**i am reading sections of the book online... let me just say that it seems that RWs version and what DD remembers about that night are very contradictory...
‘I’ve had several decades to think about what happened,’ he wrote. ‘My conclusion is that Natalie (the coroner later estimated that the actress had drunk seven or eight glasses of wine) heard the dinghy banging against the boat and slipped trying to retie it. ‘Others have suggested she was trying to get away from the argument. But nobody really knows. Did I blame myself? If I’d been there, I could have done something. I wasn’t, but, ultimately, a man is responsible for his loved one. Yes, I blamed myself.
another site i read earlier this weekend mentioned that DD specifically remembers he had already made sure the dinghy was tied up tight that evening so there was no way it was banging the boat/making noise. i'll try to find that source...
the info is from Goodbye Natalie Goodbye Splendour p. 288/289
**i am reading sections of the book online... let me just say that it seems that RWs version and what DD remembers about that night are very contradictory...
eve
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Hi RHG
Yes, no suspect would be named until they think they have a case. Blogs and Wiki both known to lack credibility. Anyone can "edit" Wiki. Blogs? Opinion and hearsay. My students are not allowed to use either as sources.
My understanding is that the buck stops with the owner, yes. I would say certainly as re: civil law issues, like strict liability and negligence.
And I agree re: DD.
Eve
I also remember reading that DD tied the dinghy up tight that evening.
As far as her "slipping"--according to GNGS the decks had just been painted with this special paint they use on decks. It has something in it to make the surface like sandpaper to prevent slipping--I forget if it's crushed up nutshells, or what. But it doesn't seem likely she would have slipped on the deck because it would have gripped her shoes. She could have tripped on something and took a tumble.
At first, I also was puzzled at RW saying "he wasn't there"...it's funny, for a moment I thought he meant he "wasn't there" owing to liquor or drug consumption. I thought "what do you mean, you weren't there?" But it sounds like he's trying to convince us and himself that he wasn't present when she fell overboard or whatever. Possibly he's trying to corroborate his own original story. He's definitely trying to distance himself from the whole thing,IMO. Maybe he wasn't there. I just don't know. It's all so confusing. Probably the only thing he will ever admit is that he blames himself.
redheadedgal
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the interesting thing is, this blame could mean way more than on the surface:
-publicly admitting as husband that he was responsible for her "accident" b/c he wasn't there to protect her/save her
but also,
-privately admitting to himself -and himself alone- he was responsible if the events of that night were more sinister (as alluded in GNGS)... a mea culpa...
I think you hit the nail on the head !
redheadedgal
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in GNGS rulli lays out the (possible) scenario that RW wanted to teach NW a lesson so he left her in the water for a while after she (slipped? was pushed? was hit?)... if this was the case though, wouldn't he have gone for her after a bit? why wait 4 hours? seems a long time to teach someone a lesson/keep the concern on the down-lo. plus, if the neighboring boat heard a male voice say "we're coming to get you... hold on" (paraphrased), why didn't they?
i'm beginning to wonder if the only realistic scenario truly was the men thought she'd taken the dinghy and was safe... **
this is just so confusing :maddening:
**of course, i'm somewhat drowsy from cough syrup w/ codeine so i may not be thinking clearly lol
i'm beginning to wonder if the only realistic scenario truly was the men thought she'd taken the dinghy and was safe... **
this is just so confusing :maddening:
**of course, i'm somewhat drowsy from cough syrup w/ codeine so i may not be thinking clearly lol
I agree, it becomes very confusing after awhile, cough syrup or not! I keep thinking I need to find the original "tale" that was told and compare it to what they are all saying now. Write them all down separately and compare. I can't seem to find a record of the original account, though. ?? But anyway, does that make any sense?
redheadedgal
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GNGS, pp. 23-24: Statement put out by RW the day after:
... While Mr W was in the cabin, Mrs W went to their state room. When Mr W went to join her he found she was not there and that the dinghy was also gone. Since Mrs W often took the dinghy out alone*, Mr W was not immediately concerned.
However, when she did not return in 10-15 minutes, Mr W took his small cruiser and went to look for her**. When this proved unsuccessful, he immediately contacted the Coast Guard*** who then continued the search and made the discovery early this morning.
... Other witnesses said Miss W had been celebrating with friends Saturday night when she wandered off by herself about 1AM****...
* she did? no one has confirmed this to my knowledge
** he did? and was there another small craft on the yacht? i've never seen pics of one
*** later he says he called 4 hours later, correct?
**** i thought all other reports say 11pm
Good analysis. I think you are correct on all points there.
His statement sounds ridiculous now. One thing I noticed was: "When she did not return in 10-15 minutes" ....:waitasec: If she stormed off in anger, did he really expect her to come back in 10-15 minutes anyway? And in reality it appears he waited much longer than that to go searching with the search team. He had no cruiser that I know of! They had a dinghy.
Also, where was CW all this time? Didn't RW originally say that CW and he were drinking and arguing, and Natalie left them because she was sick of the verbal (?)fighting? I think originally he said that the bottle broke because of turbulence (yeah, right--turbulence in the isthmus). After he smashed the bottle, did everyone run away--NW to her stateroom and CW to his room? If they all ran away, did he just sit there by himself? Nothing really adds up. Was DD in the wheelhouse all this time?
Who are the "other witnesses" who said that NW went off by herself at 1 a.m. ????? And yes, it should be 11 p.m.
ETA: I'm almost at the point in RW's book where they go on that fateful weekend so I may come back here with more information later.
eve
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I have the same questions you do.
I have never seen any confirmation that she often took the dinghy out alone. At night? I seriously doubt it. No,no,no.
What cruiser? Huh?
Timeline????:banghead:
Other witnesses? Who, pray tell, and where are they now?
This "version" makes me lean towards believing DD. It seems like a total crock to me.
Eve
I agree, I would not pay money for it --I got my copy at the library!
I don't want to contribute to RW's coffers in any way, shape or form.
I'll share more later--not sure how much I can quote without violating TOS ??? But RW's accounting of that day is really sketchy.
I won't get into this too much now because I'm multi-tasking: trying to watch NG--it's about Bianca Jones-- read NW's book, and post here!
But here's one thing I notice about RW's story. He says that after they moved the boat to the Isthmus, around 1 p.m. "they all took a nap". When he woke up he found a note from Natalie saying that she and Chris had gone ashore.
Now: assuming NW and RW took a nap together, and CW took a nap in his room, wouldn't RW have woken up if NW had gotten out of bed, and met with CW (who must have awakened from his nap) to plan an afternoon ashore? It seems like he would have heard them talking and also woken up.
Also, they moved to the Isthmus because the water was calmer there, so why would anyone have bought RW's original story that the wine bottle broke because of turbulence ? A violently smashed wine bottle would look completely different and leave a different splash pattern from a bottle that fell and broke because of turbulent weather, wouldn't it? :waitasec:
redheadedgal
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in his book POMH he changes his mind a few times about what happened... first she couldn't have taken the dinghy (her fear of dark water, no engine heard)... then maybe she did take the dinghy?... then he doesn't know... then maybe she tried to tie up the dinghy...
:banghead:
"I went below, and Natalie wasn't there," he wrote. "Strange. I went back up on the deck and looked around for her and noticed the dinghy was gone. Stranger*. I remember wondering if she'd taken the dinghy because of the argument, and then I thought, No way, because she was terrified of dark water, and besides that, the dinghy fired up loudly, and we would have heard it, whether we were in the salon or on deck."
He speculated that she might have driven the dinghy to a cove and the engine died. The dinghy was found in a cove the following morning at 5:30 a.m., but Wood wasn't on it.
...
Wagner says he still doesn't know what happened. He thinks she might have gotten up to refasten the dinghy, then slipped and fell in the water, the dinghy drifting away.
*in this account he contradicts the statement from 1981 that she would've taken the dinghy out alone... he uses the word "stranger" to describe the dinghy being gone but if she truly did take the dinghy out alone sometimes, he wouldn't have found it strange that the dinghy was gone.
plus, if she were tying up the dinghy, davern (via rulli in GNGS) said there were two ropes that attached it to the yacht so no way would both ropes have gotten loose if she was re-tying it. she'd have tied one then the other not both at the same time considering how far apart they were.
btw, eve, you said above that you are leaning towards believing DD but i'm still stuck on why no one went for her after a few minutes if RW merely wanted to teach her a lesson. this makes no sense...
can anyone theorize why they'd leave her out in the water for so long?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/natalie-wood-death-robert-wagner-memoir_n_1101958.html
:banghead:
"I went below, and Natalie wasn't there," he wrote. "Strange. I went back up on the deck and looked around for her and noticed the dinghy was gone. Stranger*. I remember wondering if she'd taken the dinghy because of the argument, and then I thought, No way, because she was terrified of dark water, and besides that, the dinghy fired up loudly, and we would have heard it, whether we were in the salon or on deck."
He speculated that she might have driven the dinghy to a cove and the engine died. The dinghy was found in a cove the following morning at 5:30 a.m., but Wood wasn't on it.
...
Wagner says he still doesn't know what happened. He thinks she might have gotten up to refasten the dinghy, then slipped and fell in the water, the dinghy drifting away.
*in this account he contradicts the statement from 1981 that she would've taken the dinghy out alone... he uses the word "stranger" to describe the dinghy being gone but if she truly did take the dinghy out alone sometimes, he wouldn't have found it strange that the dinghy was gone.
plus, if she were tying up the dinghy, davern (via rulli in GNGS) said there were two ropes that attached it to the yacht so no way would both ropes have gotten loose if she was re-tying it. she'd have tied one then the other not both at the same time considering how far apart they were.
btw, eve, you said above that you are leaning towards believing DD but i'm still stuck on why no one went for her after a few minutes if RW merely wanted to teach her a lesson. this makes no sense...
can anyone theorize why they'd leave her out in the water for so long?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/natalie-wood-death-robert-wagner-memoir_n_1101958.html
redheadedgal
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b/c they were all celebs and lost a loved one/friend... i'm certain no LE thought there might've been foul play. they saw RW grieving and heard his tale of woe and gave the group a pass... i wonder if that's one reason the case hasn't been re-opened til now... LE doesn't like to admit they made mistakes by not conducting a more thorough investigation... if the case stays closed, they are not up to scrutiny.
Zoe Bogart
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Still no word from LE and the re-opened "Investigation"? I guess there's no hurry after 30 years!
I haven't read everyone's recent posts but did see where someone got a copy of RW's book from the library. I might do the same and check for DD's and LW's books, too. I mean, after all, what I read about Natalie's death 30 years ago is a bit fuzzy now. I'm a slight bit curious to see what the men have said in their books.
I haven't read everyone's recent posts but did see where someone got a copy of RW's book from the library. I might do the same and check for DD's and LW's books, too. I mean, after all, what I read about Natalie's death 30 years ago is a bit fuzzy now. I'm a slight bit curious to see what the men have said in their books.