Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

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Here is a close up of the patio. No chalk marks but all the chalk could have been washed off by now.


I’m going to add to “Chalkgate”.

Someone more familiar with LE would know this better than I, but wouldn’t LE have taken the chalk as evidence? The story is that the boys were playing with chalk on the concrete so I would think that LE would have taken it during one of there searches.

I’ve moved solidly into the chalk being a plant unless someone thinks that LE wouldn’t collect the chalk the boys were using.
 
This P.I. inserted himself into the investigation, and also begins to post that the boys may have been seen with unknown adults, and yet does not notify any LE department, and then says "I feel like I haven't been accepted as a professional in this particular case," he did not offer any services to be accepted. He took it upon himself that his help would simply be accepted, and his information(that he did not report to LE) be beyond reproach.
What should matter to him is whether or not the family appreciates his services. If he's working for them pro bono, then I assume his main priority is to find the boys. Or was, I guess.
 
I’m going to add to “Chalkgate”.

Someone more familiar with LE would know this better than I, but wouldn’t LE have taken the chalk as evidence? The story is that the boys were playing with chalk on the concrete so I would think that LE would have taken it during one of there searches.

I’ve moved solidly into the chalk being a plant unless someone thinks that LE wouldn’t collect the chalk the boys were using.
I'm sure we are all interested to see the photos of those chalk marks/drawings the boys made. Of course, LE has experts who will be able to determine if they were indeed the artwork of children.

I'm confused tho. I recall the adoptive father saying how cold it was and that he needed to gather firewood. Why were 2 tikes outside playing if it was so cold?

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Well nothing can prevent him for searching on his own like any other Citizen. Given his expressed concern for the welfare of these children, I'm sure he will. If he wasn't in alignment with LE, then searching as a Citizen is probably all for the best. Who knows, he may be the one who finds them.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Maybe the PI is pulling a tactical move. Letting everyone know that he is no longer investigating the case. Nothing to see here. Wink wink.

;)MOO
 
Also, if the boys had never been to the CC home, would there even be clothes that were dirty/worn clothes...
I wonder if they still wore pull-ups at night. Many 3 yr old boys still need them for sleep time....There SHOULD have been evidence like that left behind.
Also there should have been drinking cups they had used, and evidence of their lunch and recent snacks, if not dinner already too....
I have a large bucket of sidewalk chalk for my grandkids.
They like to draw on the brick wall of the garage, and all it takes is one afternoon of rain to wash away their wonderful works of art.
While I do not believe the story that these boys were on the patio playing with chalk, if they actually were, and it rained after, there'd be no evidence of their drawings.
Much like the yard has no real evidence that children even lived there.
My 5 yr old granddaughter plays w/chalk on her patio almost every day. But she wouldn't do so if she only had one or two chalk colors. I can't imagine trying to keep 2 'rambunctious' boys busy for very long with one or two pieces of chalk on the patio.
 
Thanks for posting this video!

If the time on the video is behind by an hour then it looks like the dad drove the van at around 5:40 for about four minutes, then came back and called LE around 5:45. The police chief said they arrived within five minutes.

I did not see any video from 4:30 until the time the dad comes out at around 5:30 so it would be interesting to see what they were doing for those 45 minutes. I think the neighbor said he didn't see them but I guess if the dad was throwing wood on the other side of the house he wouldn't be seen.

I didn't see the mom looking outside at all. They claimed they searched the house first, which would mean they were inside for at least 30 minutes before the dad got in the van. The video does not show the period of time between when the boys were found to be missing and when he got in the van but it makes no sense for them to be searching the house all that time.

Imo
Why would 2 adults need 30 minutes to search for 2 young boys inside the house? I think they could figure out they were not inside in 10 minutes max--unless they thought the boys were purposely hiding. But even then, I could find my grandbaby within minutes when she tried to play hide seek at that age.

Do they have a dog? Our dogs can find kids in minutes.
 
I understood it to mean that children’s items were found in the home, but Chief couldn’t say whether any of them belonged to O&O, because the items were collected, and/or still in the process of being collected, to be sent to the lab for DNA testing.

I’m not sure the ages of all the children, but if there were toys etc., found in the home, how would LE know which child/children they belonged to. Maybe there weren’t enough beds in the home to account for all the children etc., and I would assume they asked TW&JW for items belonging to O&O, toothbrushes, hairbrushes etc. If they couldn’t produce these items that would’ve been a huge red flag. Even if they handed over toothbrushes etc., that doesn’t necessarily mean they belonged to
O&O, they’d need to be tested for the boys DNA.

IMHO
And even if they did have toothbrushes and hats used by O and O at the new house, how would LE know if they had just been brought over in the move, without the boys being present?

I think the key is going to be testimony from the older kids and from the extended family. JMO
 
This P.I. inserted himself into the investigation, and also begins to post that the boys may have been seen with unknown adults, and yet does not notify any LE department, and then says "I feel like I haven't been accepted as a professional in this particular case," he did not offer any services to be accepted. He took it upon himself that his help would simply be accepted, and his information(that he did not report to LE) be beyond reproach.
Welcome to WS. Nice first post. I kinda feel bad for the guy. The thing is if he would have acted professional he would have received professional feedback. He blew that chance when he went to the media for his 15 minutes instead of reporting tip to LE. It’s on him. He bears the responsibility.
 
Well nothing can prevent him for searching on his own like any other Citizen. Given his expressed concern for the welfare of these children, I'm sure he will. If he wasn't in alignment with LE, then searching as a Citizen is probably all for the best. Who knows, he may be the one who finds them.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Wouldn’t that be a story? Hmmm, I hope he does. His confidence is so low right now. C’mon PI, keep your chin up. You made a bad decision. Learn and grow.
 
Welcome to WS. Nice first post. I kinda feel bad for the guy. The thing is if he would have acted professional he would have received professional feedback. He blew that chance when he went to the media for his 15 minutes instead of reporting tip to LE. It’s on him. He bears the responsibility.
EXACTLY. If that tip about the 2 men, walking with the boys, was valid, then putting it into the public was a mistake. It would give the men a head's up, putting the boys into even more danger.

If he was an experienced professional, he could have taken the witness to the precinct and let her tell them what she saw-- instead of going to the press with a somewhat nebulous sighting.
 
Why would 2 adults need 30 minutes to search for 2 young boys inside the house? I think they could figure out they were not inside in 10 minutes max--unless they thought the boys were purposely hiding. But even then, I could find my grandbaby within minutes when she tried to play hide seek at that age.

Do they have a dog? Our dogs can find kids in minutes.
Yes, can someone explain how this dog business came into the picture. Did I read something about a dog door in one of the photos up thread? Does anyone remember that?
 
Yes, can someone explain how this dog business came into the picture. Did I read something about a dog door in one of the photos up thread? Does anyone remember that?
There was a beware of dog sign at both the cal city house and an identical one at the Bakersfield house associated with parents and grandparents. Social media profiles are not to be discussed limiting discussion.
Still. My view as expressed by some others is that any parent would call 911 for a dog related accident or almost any accident. Very few accidents are prosecuted. If you could blame a dog, you would. JMO
 
Yes, can someone explain how this dog business came into the picture. Did I read something about a dog door in one of the photos up thread? Does anyone remember that?
That was me, I said it looked like a doggie door next to the slider that was boarded up. It was one of the pictures Tricia posted. Don't know how to bring it over. Amanda probably could.
 
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