CA-Sandra Cantu, 8 missing 3/27/09 from Tracy,#1

[TripleA]

There is a happy medium. It is when parents take their kids to parks or activities where the kids can play while still being supervised, or when parents provide an environment inside their home that encourages creative playing, allows for play-dates, and discourages tv as the only source of entertainment. Parents just need to be more involved now. I see a lot of parents that I would consider lazy. Too lazy to walk their kid to a neighbors to play and pick them up when it was time to come home. Too lazy or self-involved to play a board game on a rainy day instead of letting the Playstation babysit. Too lazy to go out for a nature walk and explore on a nice day, etc.

Yes it does suck a little that my kids don't have the same freedoms as I did in the 70's and 80's, but they also have many different/modern opportunities that I did not.

 

[sandcastles4me]

It seems foolish to allow a child to be unsupervised at any time these days. Despite the work we do on this site, the chances of stranger abduction is very, very rare. I think more rare than getting hit by lightening. But, who the heck wants to take even the remotest chance of your child being abducted, assaulted and killed by a stranger? I could not take it. I would go insane, kill as many RSO's as I could find and then kill myself if that happened to a child of mine.

Nevertheless, I worry about the impact of contant supervision and vigilance on children. My mom's neighborhood, where I grew up, once swarmed with kids. Now, they are locked inside getting fat and watching t.v. and palying video games or trapped in an intense regimine of organized activities. Kids do not have the freedom of unsupervised exploration and play anymore and I wonder what that does to their psyches. I spent hours exploring either alone or with friends. What fun, dreamy, fantasy-laden times those were. My imagination was nurtured during these times. I had fun, got exercise and didn't feel "watched" all the time. I noticed that the girls who live next door to my mom and are always supervised, would act so strange the few times they were allowed outside under the gaze of their parents - stilted, quiet compared to how we were as kids, and they seemed a bit unnatural. They would gaze towards neighbor's windows sometimes and generally act as if they knew they were the main characters in a play that was always about them. I think that comes from never being free of parental supervision to any large degree. But what is the alternative? Perhaps investing in some highly trained large dogs that accompany the kids everywhere and are trained to attack if an adult comes too close or someone tries to hurt the kids? I don't know.

There are 100-130 stranger abductions a year and over 10,000 attempts. I do not feel that is rare. I am an over-protective parent, but I do feel you have to be to insure your childrens saftey. Child predators are everywhere, Lurking and waiting.

 

[believe09]

I think we are all different because even my 15 year old son knows that I must know where he is, with who, when, telephone number please, name of parent, address and a time of return.

I know that if something is going to happen at times it will - such as when he was young and I would watch him like a hawl at the park, for fear of him falling fromt he moneky bars - well his friends who were there ALONE - would never get hurt, but my kid did.

But for some reason I feel if I let him go freely with no information that if something does happen - I will not be able to live with myself. Sigh.

I do not know if we are O/T at this point, but I wonder if there is any evidence that our hypervigilence has prevented the worst from occurring? I am not being flip-I actually wonder. My children's principal and I were discussing a similar issue-she shared with me that her 13 year old son had no idea how to cross in front of a vehicle because he had never had to do it by himself...it was a powerful statement that I am still thinking about. And we wonder why the younger generation comes home to live after college, hmm???

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Does anyone know if the search warrants were the result of the evidence that was discovered or that the evidence was discovered after the warrants were executed??

 

[secretsquirrel]

That was no innocent kiss. No stranger should be kissing a child anywhere. It freaked the family out enough to file a police report on it and it should have. It's completely inappropriate. The # of abductions that take place a year are nothing compared to how many children are molested. 1 in 6 girls are molested before they are 10, 1 in 4 girls before they are 18. Those are DOJ statistics and that is just what is reported. Most of the time it's someone the child knows. It's most often the devil you know that you have to worry about which is even more reason not to let your child play outside alone. That man next door who is always watering his grass and giving your daughter ice cream is the same one who is grooming her. That nice man who offers to help you and give your kids rides etc., that coach who wants sleepovers because of early games. Those are the ones you have to watch. NO ADULT should prefer the company of children and no adult should be seeking opportunities to become too comfortable or familiar with your kids.

 

[Mendara]

That was no innocent kiss. No stranger should be kissing a child anywhere. It freaked the family out enough to file a police report on it and it should have. It's completely inappropriate. The # of abductions that take place a year are nothing compared to how many children are molested. 1 in 6 girls are molested before they are 10, 1 in 4 girls before they are 18. Those are DOJ statistics and that is just what is reported. Most of the time it's someone the child knows. It's most often the devil you know that you have to worry about which is even more reason not to let your child play outside alone. That man next door who is always watering his grass and giving your daughter ice cream is the same one who is grooming her. That nice man who offers to help you and give your kids rides etc., that coach who wants sleepovers because of early games. Those are the ones you have to watch. NO ADULT should prefer the company of children and no adult should be seeking opportunities to become too comfortable or familiar with your kids.

Excellent points in bold! I wonder if LE is going down the list of such people in her life.

I had a neighbor that loved to play "soap opera" with me while my mom and his wife talked int he kitchen and had tea. One day the soap OPERA script called for a romantic kiss. He tried to kiss me and I screamed at the top of my lungs.

Lets just say my mother had them evicted.

 

[secretsquirrel]

And note that stranger danger does not work when you simultaneously teach kids both not to talk to strangers and also to be polite, forcing them to hug "uncle johnny" even though they may have very valid reasons for recoiling from him.

 

[nursebeeme]

Does anyone know if the search warrants were the result of the evidence that was discovered or that the evidence was discovered after the warrants were executed??

respectfully snipped~

From the pressers......le would not delve into the probable cause issues of the sws.... however today they gave a little nugget, if you will... they said (reporter asked your same question) that the people who were served the sws had to do with "location" and "connection" (whatever the hell that mean) and then later said that evidence was recovered as a result of the sws. Hope that helps. And I know... it didn't answer a damm thing as usual in these things LOL

 

[nursebeeme]

And note that stranger danger does not work when you simultaneously teach kids both not to talk to strangers and also to be polite, forcing them to hug "uncle johnny" even though they may have very valid reasons for recoiling from him.

quote of the day! next to believe saying Frank may fall on the lesser of two swords (ie, what he did two years ago... did I get that right Believe??

 

[LinasK]

I think it is important NOT to confuse your children. If kissing an adult on the mouth is inappropriate and an alert for them that it is wrong touching - then it needs to be applied to all persons. No adult should kiss the child on the lips. How is a child supposed to know it is okay for Grandpa to kiss me on the lips and daddy, but not okay for Sissy's boyfriend UNCLE JOE to kiss me on the lips.

Bravo! Standing Ovation for this post!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[nursebeeme]

Excellent points in bold! I wonder if LE is going down the list of such people in her life.

I had a neighbor that loved to play "soap opera" with me while my mom and his wife talked int he kitchen and had tea. One day the soap OPERA script called for a romantic kiss. He tried to kiss me and I screamed at the top of my lungs.

Lets just say my mother had them evicted.

yikes! WTG for how you handled it!

I had a nasty great uncle who used to try to hug and grope and kiss you on the lips.... I was around sandra's age but knew it wasn't right... My sister and I used to call him gross! (God (not)rest his soul)

 

[Mendara]

And note that stranger danger does not work when you simultaneously teach kids both not to talk to strangers and also to be polite, forcing them to hug "uncle johnny" even though they may have very valid reasons for recoiling from him.

Exactly my point about it being ok to kiss daddy and grandpa and cousin nick on the mouth but not okay to kiss uncle johnny and uncle ray on the lips. As kids get older and watch tv and movies and talk to friends the kiss becomes romantic and something else entirely and can be confusing. My niece ofr instance saw her parents kiss and has been trying to makeout with my son ever since. So what if she falls into the hands of someone with bad intentions? She should be taught not to kiss on the mouth altogether.

 

[LinasK]

I was molested for many years as a child by a family friend, and I also was violently, sexually, assaulted by a boyfriend at 23 yo. I am what many refer to as a "hover-mother". I am hyper-vigilant when it comes to my children's safety. If I saw a stranger kiss one of my kids on the lips I would probably freak out. But we don't really know how long the family had been neighbors with this man, and we don't know how often Sandra hung out with the man. We do know that the mother thought nothing of letting her barely 8 yo daughter wander around the neighborhood alone, even after calling LE about the pool incident a couple of years earlier. The fact is that no one has given any context to that particular incident, and I just think that until someone speaks out to say that it was intentional sexual contact, I will reserve from slandering a man.

I have been around families who repel from hugs, and families who seem to have no physical boundaries at all. Although I watch my children like a hawk, and I frequently remind them that kids are assaulted every day, I won't tell decide for them what their comfort level is and I won't make them fearful of family members that I trust implicitly.

Okay, well I was molested by an uncle that my parents trusted implicitly. They had no clue of what happened, and when I was 4 or 5, he used to rub up against me from behind!

 

[Mendara]

yikes! WTG for how you handled it!

I had a nasty great uncle who used to try to hug and grope and kiss you on the lips.... I was around sandra's age but knew it wasn't right... My sister and I used to call him gross! (God (not)rest his soul)

You know he was a real nice man. If my mom hadn't taught me that it was wrong maybe I would have kisse dhim and never told a soul. I was only 6. I bet things like this happen often and go unoticed if a child thinks its okay and not a big deal.

I was a firecracker of a child. I remember standing there with my mouth open screaming!

 

[secretsquirrel]

Kids can be taught about "uncomfortable touch" and that if ANYONE touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable, that they can safely give voice to that. If a child does not want to be tickled and gives voice to that, we as adults must stop and let them know that we are stopping because they asked and no one has the right to touch them if they don't want to be touched. It does not have to be a rule that no adult should kiss a child on the lips even parents. The rule is that no adult should touch a child in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. Predators groom our kids with ambiguous lines that include tickling them, asking for hugs, touching their leg and leaving their hand on it a few moments too long to see how the child reacts. We have to empower our kids to understand that if something feels uncomfortable to them they should trust their instinct and they should tell.

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/abduction/framesource.html

this is a very interesting interactive on child predators....

bumping this up in light of what everyone is talking about... if you look at the part on timeline of laws helping children the last significant one was in 2003. Hmmmm 6 years later I think we are due for a few tweaks to what is existing...


((when I say "significant" I meant widespread... there has been a lot of work done by Shasta Groen's father, Jessica Lunsford's father and others locally...and if anything else "significant" happens it will be on due on large part to their tireless efforts))

 

[Mendara]

Kids can be taught about "uncomfortable touch" and that if ANYONE touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable, that they can safely give voice to that. If a child does not want to be tickled and gives voice to that, we as adults must stop and let them know that we are stopping because they asked and no one has the right to touch them if they don't want to be touched. It does not have to be a rule that no adult should kiss a child on the lips even parents. The rule is that no adult should touch a child in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. Predators groom our kids with ambiguous lines that include tickling them, asking for hugs, touching their leg and leaving their hand on it a few moments too long to see how the child reacts. We have to empower our kids to understand that if something feels uncomfortable to them they should trust their instinct and they should tell.

What IF it doens't feel uncomfortable? Then what? Its okay then? OFF TOPIC I know. But still.

 

[Patience]

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10072355

Parents in the Poway Unified School District are on the lookout for a suspicious white van. The van was seen recently stalking a first grader and a seventh grader.
Sabre Springs resident Brett Hanavan keeps track of crime in his area through a neighborhood watch email string. Recently he started to see a pattern.
"Seems like there's been some similar situations with a white van - the same details, the same suspicious nature," Hanavan said.
Two recent incidents involving a white Ford van with three Hispanic men inside happened in Torrey Highlands. On March 12, the mother of a seven-year-old girl dropped off by a school bus near Torrey Meadows Drive and Torrey Santa Fe Road reported the white van following her daughter.

 

[LinasK]

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=10072355

Parents in the Poway Unified School District are on the lookout for a suspicious white van. The van was seen recently stalking a first grader and a seventh grader.
Sabre Springs resident Brett Hanavan keeps track of crime in his area through a neighborhood watch email string. Recently he started to see a pattern.
"Seems like there's been some similar situations with a white van - the same details, the same suspicious nature," Hanavan said.
Two recent incidents involving a white Ford van with three Hispanic men inside happened in Torrey Highlands. On March 12, the mother of a seven-year-old girl dropped off by a school bus near Torrey Meadows Drive and Torrey Santa Fe Road reported the white van following her daughter.

Ummm, that's near San Diego, wrong end of the state from Sandra's case...

 

[KR2tonenow]

It seems foolish to allow a child to be unsupervised at any time these days. Despite the work we do on this site, the chances of stranger abduction is very, very rare. I think more rare than getting hit by lightening. But, who the heck wants to take even the remotest chance of your child being abducted, assaulted and killed by a stranger? I could not take it. I would go insane, kill as many RSO's as I could find and then kill myself if that happened to a child of mine.

Nevertheless, I worry about the impact of contant supervision and vigilance on children. My mom's neighborhood, where I grew up, once swarmed with kids. Now, they are locked inside getting fat and watching t.v. and palying video games or trapped in an intense regimine of organized activities. Kids do not have the freedom of unsupervised exploration and play anymore and I wonder what that does to their psyches. I spent hours exploring either alone or with friends. What fun, dreamy, fantasy-laden times those were. My imagination was nurtured during these times. I had fun, got exercise and didn't feel "watched" all the time. I noticed that the girls who live next door to my mom and are always supervised, would act so strange the few times they were allowed outside under the gaze of their parents - stilted, quiet compared to how we were as kids, and they seemed a bit unnatural. They would gaze towards neighbor's windows sometimes and generally act as if they knew they were the main characters in a play that was always about them. I think that comes from never being free of parental supervision to any large degree. But what is the alternative? Perhaps investing in some highly trained large dogs that accompany the kids everywhere and are trained to attack if an adult comes too close or someone tries to hurt the kids? I don't know.

Well said and quite right. Technology and the computer era has made people more hyper-conscious to their own vulnerbility. I mentioned early in this thread, that in the large community I live, I NEVER see girls 13 and under walk alone by themselves. I watch my own child like a hawk and he's in his teens.

 

[secretsquirrel]

What IF it doens't feel uncomfortable? Then what? Its okay then? OFF TOPIC I know. But still.

That's where bad touch comes in. No adult should be touching a child in a place that is covered by a bathing suit.