Cadaver dogs have hit on dumpster near home #2

[lillys]

When the scent dogs hit on or near the dumpster would they only hit on Haleigh's scent or any human scent? tia

 

[sarx]

Persoanlly, I cannot imagine post-mortem matter being located in a constructin dumpster. That is not the way Nursing Homes or any facility disposes of human matter.

How long had that dumpster been there? Where did it come from? Decomp scent lasts for years/decades even, so it's impossible to say what the dogs were hitting on.

And, if the dogs were trained in blood too, well, that makes a dumpster an almost guaranteed spot for them to alert on.

There are so many variables that go along with this dumpster and it sounds like LE may not have done the best job of checking what was in it, so sadly we'll never know.

Did I miss it? Is the dumpster on the map?

 

[sarx]

When the scent dogs hit on or near the dumpster would they only hit on Haleigh's scent or any human scent? tia

If we are talking strictly HRDD/cadaver dogs then it would be any deceased human scent (bone, decomp, etc), not specific to Haleigh.

Can someone tell me, were the dogs taken to the dumpster or did they search up to it?

 

[ladonna]

How long had that dumpster been there? Where did it come from? Decomp scent lasts for years/decades even, so it's impossible to say what the dogs were hitting on.

And, if the dogs were trained in blood too, well, that makes a dumpster an almost guaranteed spot for them to alert on.

There are so many variables that go along with this dumpster and it sounds like LE may not have done the best job of checking what was in it, so sadly we'll never know.

Did I miss it? Is the dumpster on the map?

I watched that dumpster search and always thought LE did a shoddy job at best.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Was the pond ever searched by water cadaver dogs?

Looking at the map it would not surprise me if the initial dog was following her residual scent around the subdivision from taking that route all the time. If she had ended up in the water (pond), it would theoretically be possible for the dog to trail her freshest scent from the house to the pond, then once at the pond lose the fresh scent (say because she was in the pond), at which time the dog would pick up an older trail (I'm assuming that she had been to this pond many times before) and then continue on with a well traveled path/route of hers.

THIS IS TOTAL SPECULATION AND HYPOTHETICAL, but it is possible in terms of what a dog could/would do given the circumstances.

IDK about the water cadaver dogs.

I came to the same conclusion of residual scent being what the dog was following.

It seems like an extremely erratic path of movement for an abductor to:

-Take her several hundred feet through the woods at night to the pond

-Then go over to the area of the out building and travel up the middle of Green Drive

-And pass within 50 or 60 feet of the same door he exited at the trailer.

Not to mention wander around much of the neighborhood traveling up the middle of the streets and disappear completely at the railroad tracks which, as you pointed out, is very close to the bus stop which coincidentally would be the last point in the neighborhood where Haleigh would have been on a regular basis.

 

[Whisperer]

So the dogs could have stopped at the tracks because that is where Haleigh boards the bus most days. They could have been trailing her early morning romp when she went to school. The other part around Bucanan and to the pond could be a separate activity of the day. IOW, there could be two or more different trails of Haleigh going on, possibly on different days.. I am confusing myself..

 

[sarx]

So the dogs could have stopped at the tracks because that is where Haleigh boards the bus most days. They could have been trailing her early morning romp when she went to school. The other part around Bucanan and to the pond could be a separate activity of the day. IOW, there could be two or more different trails of Haleigh going on. I am confusing myself..

Nope, you are not confusing yourself (well, maybe you are, but you are correct).

Working a trailing dog where someone takes a path repeatedly can make things very difficult.

 

[Peliman]

If we are talking strictly HRDD/cadaver dogs then it would be any deceased human scent (bone, decomp, etc), not specific to Haleigh.

Can someone tell me, were the dogs taken to the dumpster or did they search up to it?

Hi sarx, here's an report released on the dumpster search you may find interesting. Thanks for the knowledge. Also there's a question on the original scent article from the live search. This story may help paint a bigger picture.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/18805304/detail.html

 

[Whisperer]

Now that you reminded me, I recall in the Lacy search, that it also revealed the dogs hit on a dumpster around the corner from the Peterson Home.

 

[Whisperer]

For the time being, I am going to eliminate the dumpster theory in the Haleigh case. I don't want to though but if the dogs weren't specific (like they were in Caylee's case), I can't put this dumpster into the case. Thank you Sarx for your help. You are truly knowlegeble and I certainly appreciate having you around. Please stay.

 

[Whisperer]

One more questoin sarx...Do the dogs trail in reverse? Could it be she left the bus and all this is in backwards and this is her trail from the bus stop to the house?

 

[Kimster]

You are amazing.

ITA! Sarx, your info in Amber's case was compelling and I am soooo thankful you came here to help. You are answering some very old questions and bringing up new ones to think about. :blowkiss:

 

[sarx]

Sure thing Whisperer.

If the article is accurate and those truly are quotes from Selzer (who was one of the dog handlers), then their dogs were trained to alert on blood (as is stated==He said the dogs could hit on something as small as a bandage used to cover a person's bloody cut). That really opens up the possibility that the dumpster had nothing to do with Haleigh.

 

[Kimster]

:doh: I've been so stuck on that dumpster all this time.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

For the time being, I am going to eliminate the dumpster theory in the Haleigh case. I don't want to though but if the dogs weren't specific (like they were in Caylee's case), I can't put this dumpster into the case. Thank you Sarx for your help. You are truly knowlegeble and I certainly appreciate having you around. Please stay.

Great Information here--using your post, Whisp, to jump off.

What has long concerned me is that, decomp could be in hundreds (if not more) dumpsters around the country. And, if I am reading this right, no way to know if the dogs hit on Haleigh's decomp or someone from say, Jax, if that dumpster came from another area. Am I understanding this right?

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

For the time being, I am going to eliminate the dumpster theory in the Haleigh case. I don't want to though but if the dogs weren't specific (like they were in Caylee's case), I can't put this dumpster into the case. Thank you Sarx for your help. You are truly knowlegeble and I certainly appreciate having you around. Please stay.

ITA

Using the linens as we've been told seems to be the wrong way to do this so we don't know if (say Haleigh was at Sykes the previous weekend) just whose scents were on that linen and who the dogs were actually tracking....that's where I disconnect with the dogs--the Search vs the Cadaver dogs :banghead:

 

[sarx]

ITA! Sarx, your info in Amber's case was compelling and I am soooo thankful you came here to help. You are answering some very old questions and bringing up new ones to think about. :blowkiss:

Hoping I can help shed some light on a topic that not too many really understand. I don't go through a lot of the cases on here (I would never get off the computer if I started!) so please let me know if I can be of help in other threads.

 

[sarx]

Great Information here--using your post, Whisp, to jump off.

What has long concerned me is that, decomp could be in hundreds (if not more) dumpsters around the country. And, if I am reading this right, no way to know if the dogs hit on Haleigh's decomp or someone from say, Jax, if that dumpster came from another area. Am I understanding this right?

You are correct, there is no way to know that the scent was connected to Haleigh. In fact it is highly likely that it may not even have been connected to a dead body at all but blood scent, which could have come from just about anything and was likely benign.

 

[Nore]

:doh: I've been so stuck on that dumpster all this time.

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Hi KImster, didn't someone say if blood on a bandage in the dumpster was from a live person the dogs wouldn't hit on it if they were cadaver dogs? They would only hit if looking for a live person.This was all brought up Very early in the case.I believe Haleigh had been missing for a couple weeks.Most were angry because they waited so long.For cadaver dogs time really doesn't matter.

 

[sarx]

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Hi KImster, didn't someone say if blood on a bandage in the dumpster was from a live person the dogs wouldn't hit on it if they were cadaver dogs? They would only hit if looking for a live person.This was all brought up Very early in the case.I believe Haleigh had been missing for a couple weeks.Most were angry because they waited so long.For cadaver dogs time really doesn't matter.

True, for cadaver dogs time really isn't an issue (they've found graves from 450 A.D.)

Blood is a common training tool though and being that the handler himself commented on the possibility of it being a bandage I would say that tends to confirm the theory that they were not working on cadaver scent.