Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[OutOfTheDarkness]

They were likely knocked out with a chemical and then stabbed. Knocking them out would put them to sleep making it easier to kill them. A medical examiner would still be needed. I also suspect there were traces of a chemical being used which they were looking for at the Garland property.

How do you knock someone out with a chemical, especially if it were 3 people at one time? That might make some sense if there was NO signs of "medical distress", because then you could just smother or strangle victims.

 

[winnnancy]

Ether can be found around diesel machinery as a starting agent and is used in making illicit drugs.
It has been used for crime

 

[otto]

Gun registry was a joke. I'm sure the statistics on crime committed by the " knife and gun clubs" would amaze you. There are many collectors possessing all types of firearms.
A silencer is likely easy to procure.
That being said, a gun wouldn't likely leave behind evidence of a struggle.

Here's the Calgary Crime map illustrating murders and how that murder was committed

http://www.cbc.ca/calgary/features/homicide/

Gun murders are extremely rare, and usually associated with gang violence.

 

[Cherchri]

Extreamly well done Wendiesan. Even having lost a loved one to a homicide I was incapable of putting this into writting and explaining the types of costs incurred. Thank you for explaining this and explaining the many victims and the re-victimization that occurs. For our family everytime there is a homicide in the news we relive the horror and the terror of our own situation. You never forget it, your NEVER the same. In our situation our loved one died without a will and the proceeds of the estate has shattered our family beyond repair. living family taking other family members to court over disputes and long burried family issues resurfaced and have completely destroyed the family as a whole. Even after years of counseling we have not recovered. For us there was no trial...there was no persons to point a finger at...we had a body to bury but absolutely no worldly justic. Which made the greif a different kind of trama. I relived our experience just by reading your post. Thank you does not even begin to describe the gratitude I feel for your ability to explain this for some who may not know.

I am sorry for your loss and continued grief.

 

[otto]

Sorry - just thinking out loud. So the truck was seen several times during the times of the murders. My best guess, based on the time JO left, sunset and sunrise is that 11-5am is the time frame we are looking at.
A direct trip from the Liknes house to the north side of airdrie would be about 45 mins - 1 hr. So my best guesstimate is that he could have at MOST done 2 trips, when you consider all the other "activities" he supposedly did while there.
So as someone said, not all the victims would fit in the truck, so either the bodies were disguised (put in bags etc) or possibly somewhere closer to the Liknes home than the acreage.

If he had five hours, we can subtract 2 hours for the round trip to take the bodies to the acreage, and that still leaves three hours to commit the three murders, remove the bodies from the house, put them in the truck, and clean up the scene.

 

[Sillybilly]

I would rather not know the gory details of what happened in the Liknes home on the night of the murder. I can only imagine that with three victims, no one had an escape route or a moment to overcome the attacker. Police have said that this was a premeditated murder, which suggests to me that the suspect went to the home with the intent to commit murder, that he had a weapon, a plan, and that he would not be deterred with conversation, thoughts of torture, or the presence of a small child. Given the timeline, it seems that in the span of about five hours he was able to murder three people, remove them from the scene (including a 200 pound 6 foot tall man), dispose of their bodies (perhaps a 1.5 hour round trip to the Airdrie acreage), return to the crime scene, clean up, and be on his way home. I don't think that leaves much time for torture.

The timeframe could have been anywhere between 10:00 pm and 10:00 am ... we don't have all the facts. We don't know that what appears to be an early morning capture of the truck wasn't taken the day prior. Plus, I'm not talking gory details and prolonged hours of torture. Going back to "why Kathryn" when his beef was presumably with AL? DG had to have known Kathryn would be there (it seems only Nathan was the surprise). I'm suggesting the possibility of brief moments where AL may have been forced to witness the death of his loved ones before he was killed, whether in the home or elsewhere.

Just sayin'

 

[deugirtni]

Debt is supposed to die with bankruptcy. But just curious.. what if someone was on the verge of bankruptcy and then they were murdered before it was signed off or whatever. And then there is life insurance. Would the life insurance have to go to the bankrupt person's bankruptcy? Would the estate be liable for all? I know it is not likely relevant in this case, but just... curious.

Additionally, I don't remember where it was mentioned but it has been, there is taxes owing on the latest company bankruptcy.
Debt apparently does not die with death. The estate may be liable to pay. We don't know if AL was incorporated.

 

[otto]

The timeframe could have been anywhere between 10:00 pm and 10:00 am ... we don't have all the facts. We don't know that what appears to be an early morning capture of the truck wasn't taken the day prior. Plus, I'm not talking gory details and prolonged hours of torture. Going back to "why Kathryn" when his beef was presumably with AL? DG had to have known Kathryn would be there (it seems only Nathan was the surprise). I'm suggesting the possibility of brief moments where AL may have been forced to witness the death of his loved ones before he was killed, whether in the home or elsewhere.

Just sayin'

BBM

"July 4: Staff Sgt. Doug Andrus says a violent struggle occurred inside the Liknes' home before the three went missing. Police release images of a green Ford F150 made in the late 1980s or early 1990s that was seen driving around Parkhill several times during the night of the disappearance."

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10005882

Alvin would have been the greatest threat to the suspect, so I'm assuming he would be the first victim.

 

[garbagetweet]

Debt is supposed to die with bankruptcy. But just curious.. what if someone was on the verge of bankruptcy and then they were murdered before it was signed off or whatever. And then there is life insurance. Would the life insurance have to go to the bankrupt person's bankruptcy? Would the estate be liable for all? I know it is not likely relevant in this case, but just... curious.

From what I understand there are different situations and ways that things are handled.

Life insurance plans generally have a beneficiary. In the case of a beneficiary the funds are paid directly to that person(s). Other funds such as investments (RRSP, TFSA, etc.) sometimes have beneficiaries listed as well in which case the funds would be payable to whoever is listed. Payments to beneficiaries happen outside of the estate.

When beneficiaries are not available the funds become payable to the estate. The estate holds all funds for distribution. The estate is also liable for settling bills and what not. When it comes to debts the estate is not liable for payment of the debts but a creditor can make a claim against the estate for the amount which is owed at which point the estate has to pay the creditor.

 

[bakerlady]

Chloroform could have been used and the rest of the dirty work in the bathtub.

Something about the supposed blood stain in the driveway always confused me. It looks like something violent happened in the driveway and there is a big area of spattered blood, as if it were falling from a head or neck or chest wound and then that person fell down and was dragged into the house and placed in something to cover up the body like a bag... ugh sorry.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

From what I understand there are different situations and ways that things are handled.

Life insurance plans generally have a beneficiary. In the case of a beneficiary the funds are paid directly to that person(s). Other funds such as investments (RRSP, TFSA, etc.) sometimes have beneficiaries listed as well in which case the funds would be payable to whoever is listed. Payments to beneficiaries happen outside of the estate.

When beneficiaries are not available the funds become payable to the estate. The estate holds all funds for distribution. The estate is also liable for settling bills and what not. When it comes to debts the estate is not liable for payment of the debts but a creditor can make a claim against the estate for the amount which is owed at which point the estate has to pay the creditor.

The estate is actually responsible to pay all debts of the deceased person before disbursement to the beneficiaries is made

http://estatelawcanada.blogspot.ca/2010/09/what-does-executor-do-if-he-is-notified.html

 

[Leeby]

Garland attended the University of Alberta for just over two years. He was in the Faculty of Science. In his third year, he transferred into the science undergraduate program for medical students. In October of that year he was expelled for cheating.

"A Postmedia News story from the drugs trial noted that the meth cook, as drug makers are called, had studied science at the University of Alberta but was expelled after being caught cheating."

http://o.canada.com/news/national/b...w-and-mental-health-concerns-documents-reveal

He was caught cheating in his third year, but he was probably cheating the entire time he was at the university. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he cheated in high school as well.

He then had a meth lab. There are an awful lot of people that have meth labs that are not all that bright. Having a meth lab doesn't make Garland a chemistry mastermind, and cheating in a Bachelor of Science program doesn't make him a chemistry mastermind. I think that people are giving him an awful lot more credit than he deserves. Regarding appealing his employment benefits, I seem to recall that there was a technicality that was used to reverse the decision. That also doesn't make Garland a genius ... it tells me that he spent a lot of time tenaciously looking for any way to reverse the decision because he felt that even though he lied about who he was, he was cheated..

The documents from the court stated that DG was a genius. In my opinion DG would have been sent through rigorous psychiatric testing upon his arrest for meth production/identity theft/evading police ... This psych review would be completed by a court approved psychiatrist and a report would be presented, in court, to the judge.

The term genius is a reflection of IQ. A standardized psychiatric assessment would include a number of different assessments of IQ...Furthermore, the court documents stated DG suffered from ADHD, a diagnosis which I believe was provided in a court ordered psychiatric review.

I once read a book ,"In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Dr. Gabor Mate, which defines an observeable link between ADHD and the use of stree level stimulants (mostly methamphetamine). The book is essentially about his experiences with drug addicts on East Hastings Street in Vancouver BC...Dr. Mate talks about ADHD and how sufferers can be geniuses but without stimulant medication they lack the brain chemistry to focus and organize themselves and their thoughts. Dr. Mate claims if an ADHD individual uses a stimulant as strong as methamphetamine, they will experience a perfect mental clarity and will function at almost superhuman mental ability. The book also discusses how prescription medication for ADHD is not strong enough to produce this level of mental perfection, thus damning the ADHD person into a life of methamphetamine use and inevitable street dwelling.

DG could very well have been a user, and his IQ would have allowed him to make very pure product(methamphetamine)... Which he could have easily continued making for personal use throughout the years. If he was disciplined enough he would have been able to take a "therapeutic dose" and provided he has his drugs would have appeared quite normal/high functioning.

Meth gives users superhuman strength and the ability to stay awake for days in end.... This, coupled with a, possibly legitamit , genius IQ would make DG a very dangerous man...

I could be totally off base here, just my opinion .

 

[Krystine]

Chloroform could have been used and the rest of the dirty work in the bathtub.

Something about the supposed blood stain in the driveway always confused me. It looks like something violent happened in the driveway and there is a big area of spattered blood, as if it were falling from a head or neck or chest wound and then that person fell down and was dragged into the house and placed in something to cover up the body like a bag... ugh sorry.

Does anyone remember the round-ish spot on the lower part of the garage door (car door, not man door)? Someone thought that someone had been propped up against it, and that spot would indicate the head. I have no idea how to find that comment, and can't recall if it was made by media or a WS user.

 

[news.talk]

The point of removing Alvin from the crime scene is a bit of a mystery for me. I kind of hope that he was lured out of the house to sit in the suspect's vehicle for a conversation and that he was attacked there, as that means he was removed from the home in one piece. Lifting 200 pounds of dead weight into the back of a pickup would most likely require some kind of aid ... like a dolly and a ramp. I don't know how much weight Garland can lift, so perhaps he simply dragged Alvin out of the house and lifted him into the back of the pickup truck.

Since bedding was collected from the Spyhill Landfill, I'm assuming that bedding was missing from the crime scene ... bedding that could have been used to remove/drag the victims to the truck, and cover them in the back of the truck.

I guess the trouble I have with the "AL being lured out" theory is, Parkhill is a very quiet, friendly area much like mine - If two people are even having a quiet conversation outside it can be heard... given that it was a hot night and windows were probably open, a murder occurring would have alerted neighbours. Same goes with any type of dolly to move the victims. In this type of neighbourhood, ANY sound is noticed and in all reports the neighbours claim to have heard "nothing". The only thing that makes sense to me is for the victims and evidence to be disassembled, bagged and then moved. Seeing a bunch of garbage in the back of a truck wouldn't alert neighbours or other drivers on the road.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-search-gets-help-from-high-tech-gear-helicopter-1.2713772
This report shows how the Vieworx's technology works. I pray it helps LE find the family.
Demonstration at bottom of article.

 

[ResearchQuest]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-search-gets-help-from-high-tech-gear-helicopter-1.2713772
This report shows how the Vieworx's technology works. I pray it helps LE find the family.
Demonstration at bottom of article.

A very generous donation by Vieworx. LE will have had the photos for a few days now, here's hoping that something is found that can help resolve the case. I see that a National Research Council aircraft was also in the vicinity.

 

[Cherchri]

The documents from the court stated that DG was a genius. In my opinion DG would have been sent through rigorous psychiatric testing upon his arrest for meth production/identity theft/evading police ... This psych review would be completed by a court approved psychiatrist and a report would be presented, in court, to the judge.

The term genius is a reflection of IQ. A standardized psychiatric assessment would include a number of different assessments of IQ...Furthermore, the court documents stated DG suffered from ADHD, a diagnosis which I believe was provided in a court ordered psychiatric review.

I once read a book ,"In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" by Dr. Gabor Mate, which defines an observeable link between ADHD and the use of stree level stimulants (mostly methamphetamine). The book is essentially about his experiences with drug addicts on East Hastings Street in Vancouver BC...Dr. Mate talks about ADHD and how sufferers can be geniuses but without stimulant medication they lack the brain chemistry to focus and organize themselves and their thoughts. Dr. Mate claims if an ADHD individual uses a stimulant as strong as methamphetamine, they will experience a perfect mental clarity and will function at almost superhuman mental ability. The book also discusses how prescription medication for ADHD is not strong enough to produce this level of mental perfection, thus damning the ADHD person into a life of methamphetamine use and inevitable street dwelling.

DG could very well have been a user, and his IQ would have allowed him to make very pure product(methamphetamine)... Which he could have easily continued making for personal use throughout the years. If he was disciplined enough he would have been able to take a "therapeutic dose" and provided he has his drugs would have appeared quite normal/high functioning.

Meth gives users superhuman strength and the ability to stay awake for days in end.... This, coupled with a, possibly legitamit , genius IQ would make DG a very dangerous man...

I could be totally off base here, just my opinion .

Many people with conditions such as depression and ADD self medicate that much is true. DG was diagnosed ADD as opposed to ADHD. We covered this in an earlier thread. Those conditions are commonly lumped into one category but there are significant differences. The H stands for hyperactivity and DG was not diagnosed as hyperactive. ADD people also often self medicate with alcohol, nicotine, marijuana and even comfort food but they are usually polar opposites to the hyperactive ADHD. While many people of high intellect are ADD in fact, ADD has nothing to do with intelligence or determination. ADHD and ADD are neurobehavioral disorders caused by alterations in brain chemicals and changes in the way the brain works. They both present unique challenges, but don't have to get in the way of success. Many successful people have managed the condition. Albert Einstein is said to have had symptoms of ADD.

 

[otto]

I guess the trouble I have with the "AL being lured out" theory is, Parkhill is a very quiet, friendly area much like mine - If two people are even having a quiet conversation outside it can be heard... given that it was a hot night and windows were probably open, a murder occurring would have alerted neighbours. Same goes with any type of dolly to move the victims. In this type of neighbourhood, ANY sound is noticed and in all reports the neighbours claim to have heard "nothing". The only thing that makes sense to me is for the victims and evidence to be disassembled, bagged and then moved. Seeing a bunch of garbage in the back of a truck wouldn't alert neighbours or other drivers on the road.

There had been an estate sale at the house for the previous three days, so there were probably a lot of vehicles, coming and going, removing contents from the house. Would anyone have paid attention to more of the same activity after three days of similar activity?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

There had been an estate sale at the house for the previous three days, so there were probably a lot of vehicles, coming and going, removing contents from the house. Would anyone have paid attention to more of the same activity after three days of similar activity?

I think they may have in the wee hours of the morning. Garage sale traffic doesn't often continue after 10 pm

 

[Touchtherapy]

Chloroform could have been used and the rest of the dirty work in the bathtub.

Something about the supposed blood stain in the driveway always confused me. It looks like something violent happened in the driveway and there is a big area of spattered blood, as if it were falling from a head or neck or chest wound and then that person fell down and was dragged into the house and placed in something to cover up the body like a bag... ugh sorry.

If such was the case I would expect blood spatter on the surrounding surfaces such as the house, the lawn, the roof, the siding. IMO the stain is being labeled as drag marks because of the lack of splatter. If something horrific happened in that spot it would be impossible to contain the splatter and completely clean it up. I do belive the crime took place in the residence and the marks are drag marks specifically.