Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I think you would get more info/attention from a tweet to him. JMO. Why not try both?

He'd probably not appreciate a public calling out of his potential errors. It's only fair to let him explain privately, and maybe they can edit the article if there are any irregularities.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Did everybody just log out? Is this one of those good ideas nobody wants to do?
I'll do it.

The question is really about having a source for the line "One of the many vehicles to park near the house, police would later reveal, belonged to Mr. Garland..." because we do not dispute that he "visited" the Liknes's house, though we could point out that subsequently being accused of 3 murders kind of takes the visit out of visiting

I agree, and will help if you need it.

 

[ABro]

I think, for me, is the issue regarding whether DG parked near the house or attended the sale, or was at the house anytime that weekend other than when the incident took place.

For me the issue is not pronouncing someone wrong before you know they're actually wrong.

 

[Wondergirl]

One of the members at this outdoor forum says he knew Garland when he was working as a chemist in B.C. under the name Mathew Hartley. MH /DG was a customer. The ***spelling*** being a possible further clue here. Typo or otherwise

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=223336&page=4

 

[stan laurel]

There were some comments in the last few days about Calgary having some old money families, and many new money families (oil boom). I'm not convinced that old money or new money means entitled. New money, in general, tends to show off a bit more. I decided to look a little further into it. Calgary is a diverse city with opportunities for established, as well as new, Canadians. Per capita, the population is well educated, has a good quality of life, and has numerous employment opportunities. Given the demographics of Calgary, I think people expect straight up information from police about a triple murder simply because a lack of information could present a danger to the population. It would be a much bigger problem for police if they were looking for a second or third suspect in these murders, where that information was withheld, and another member of the extended family was murdered. It is better for everyone if police are straight up with the community, and that the community respect the need of the police to protect the integrity of the investigation for the trial.

◾Calgary has the highest concentration of head offices in Canada, per capita, and the highest personal income in the country.
◾Calgary is ranked #1 in the world for quality of living. (Eco-City Ranking, Mercer 2010)
◾Calgary has the lowest unemployment rate and the lowest tax rates in Canada. More than 90,000 new jobs are expected to be created here over the next five years —the highest in Canada.
◾Calgary is a global centre for the energy, finance, and transportation/logistics industries.
◾Calgary has the highest employment rate in Canada for newcomers and the third highest diversity rate in the country.
◾Calgary has the highest percentage of post-secondary educated citizens in Canada and the largest concentration of entrepreneurs.

http://haskayne.ucalgary.ca/programs/mba/yyc-advantage
(more at link)

you forgot the one that was on the news last week;

Calgary has the highest debt per household averaging in at $120,000, or $50,000 above the national average.

 

[Sillybilly]

The Globe and Mail articles states: "One of the many vehicles to park near the house, police would later reveal, belonged to Mr. Garland." I have never read that in any news article, nor heard it in a police press conference. What was said was that a vehicle was seen several times in the area of the crime scene during the hours when the family vanished. If it is true that the vehicle was parked near the house, there must be at least two more media reports with the same information. Where are they?

<rsbm>

Catching up here, so sorry if addressed:

In the presser, starting at 1:22 in the video in the linked article, Staff Sgt Andrus specifically said the vehicle was driving/driven:

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/police-confirm-violent-crime-occurred-in-home-of-missing-trio-1.1898699

"The vehicle was seen in the area the night of the incident driving in the area several times and we believe the person in that vehicle will have information that will assist us in our investigation"

from another point in the presser, from:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/04/21784996.html?cid=rsshomepage

"The fact it was the night of the incident and it was driven in the area several times, it's a good possibility the people in the truck would have information," said Andrus.

If the vehicle was parked, somebody should tell the Staff Sgt

 

[bakerlady]

I'm backtracking a bit trying to make sense of things that stand out in my mind.

1.(In this post)[http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lgary-30-June-2014-4&p=10714723#post10714723] sillybilly says

On the prairies, I don't think it would be unusual to find an underground bunker to be used as shelter in the event of tornado warnings. Nowadays might find them being used as an underground meth lab.

Are there actually tornado shelters in Calgary? If so there could be endless locations that DG could have used. I wonder how many abandoned homes/farms there are around Airdrie. Just thinking out loud there.

2. BBM - The original Amber Alert http://www.emergencyalert.alberta.ca/alerts/2014/07/2576.html

Description:
An AMBER Alert has been issued for the abduction of a 5 year old male from South West Calgary June 30. Nathan O&#8217;Brien, is a white male, 3 feet tall, curly blonde hair, brown eyes. Last seen wearing peach colored shorts and a blue striped hoody. Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather Alvin Liknes, a white male, 6 feet tall, 200 lbs with grey and blond hair, black shorts. Alvin has a distinctive walk. His grandmother Kathryn Liknes is described as 5foot 3 tall, 120 pounds with red and brown hair and green eyes.
The child was last seen in the area of MacLeod Trail in South West Calgary. Anyone with information regarding the child is asked to call Calgary Police at 403-532-6237

We have already debated the part about he may be with AL. But what also stands out to me is the mention of MacLeod Trail specifically. Was he REALLY last seen on that road thru CCTV recordings? Or did LE just use the street name because it is a major road that most would be familiar with? Why not say he was last seen at his Grandparents home in the MacLeod Trail area. Maybe I am nitpicking but I just think that might be something to consider further.

3. On July, 4 LE asks the public to help identify the truck. Later that day they found it. Did it take 4 days for LE to get the CCTV footage? IMO that would be one of the first things to obtain in an Amber alert case. Once LE got this photo didn't they show it to the Liknes and O'briens first BEFORE releasing it to the media? IMO that would be the most logical thing to do in order to avoid tipping off the perp. What if DG saw his truck on the news and NO was alive at the time and then he decided to kill him then, because he knew LE would be coming for him? Doesn't LE take these things into consideration? I find it hard to stomach that LE did not show the photo to ALjr and PG before releasing it to the media. And if they did show it to them before then, I would find it hard to believe that neither of them recognized that truck. ALjr's father was missing, wouldn't he be front and center waiting for the newest developments? Wouldn't LE reach out to family first considering the staggering statistics that most abductions and violent crimes are committed by family members?

 

[bakerlady]

I don't have a twitter account and I was going to email him using the websleuth email. I did write and email to him and hit send message and the message disappeared, but there is nothing in my sent box so I'm not sure what happened. I guess I'll just have to write it again and ask him to pardon me if he received more than one email.

You have to go into preferences and click 'save copy of sent messages' or else they don't get saved. I found that out recently myself.

 

[stan laurel]

<rsbm>

Catching up here, so sorry if addressed:

In the presser, starting at 1:22 in the video in the linked article, Staff Sgt Andrus specifically said the vehicle was driving/driven:

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/police-confirm-violent-crime-occurred-in-home-of-missing-trio-1.1898699




from another point in the presser, from:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2014/07/04/21784996.html?cid=rsshomepage



If the vehicle was parked, somebody should tell the Staff Sgt

"The fact it was the night of the incident and it was driven in the area several times, it's a good possibility the people in the truck would have information," said Andrus.

people in the truck?????

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm backtracking a bit trying to make sense of things that stand out in my mind.

1.(In this post)[http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lgary-30-June-2014-4&p=10714723#post10714723] sillybilly says

Are there actually tornado shelters in Calgary? If so there could be endless locations that DG could have used. I wonder how many abandoned homes/farms there are around Airdrie. Just thinking out loud there.

2. BBM - The original Amber Alert http://www.emergencyalert.alberta.ca/alerts/2014/07/2576.html

We have already debated the part about he may be with AL. But what also stands out to me is the mention of MacLeod Trail specifically. Was he REALLY last seen on that road thru CCTV recordings? Or did LE just use the street name because it is a major road that most would be familiar with? Why not say he was last seen at his Grandparents home in the MacLeod Trail area. Maybe I am nitpicking but I just think that might be something to consider further.

3. On July, 4 LE asks the public to help identify the truck. Later that day they found it. Did it take 4 days for LE to get the CCTV footage? IMO that would be one of the first things to obtain in an Amber alert case. Once LE got this photo didn't they show it to the Liknes and O'briens first BEFORE releasing it to the media? IMO that would be the most logical thing to do in order to avoid tipping off the perp. What if DG saw his truck on the news and NO was alive at the time and then he decided to kill him then, because he knew LE would be coming for him? Doesn't LE take these things into consideration? I find it hard to stomach that LE did not show the photo to ALjr and PG before releasing it to the media. And if they did show it to them before then, I would find it hard to believe that neither of them recognized that truck. ALjr's father was missing, wouldn't he be front and center waiting for the newest developments? Wouldn't LE reach out to family first considering the staggering statistics that most abductions and violent crimes are committed by family members?

You sort of answer your own question... If most abductions/violent crimes are committed by family members, wouldn't they be potentially tipping off the perps by going to them before going to the public? You'd then afford them the time to hide, clean, or destroy the truck before the public was on the lookout for it.

 

[bakerlady]

He'd probably not appreciate a public calling out of his potential errors. It's only fair to let him explain privately, and maybe they can edit the article if there are any irregularities.

Y'know this made me chuckle. I have Aspergers and one of my many hardships is being sensitive to others feelings. It's not that I am a mean person, I am just brutally honest and to the point and I fail to see that someone else might have hurt feelings from my failure to say the appropriate thing at the appropriate time/place.

I never would have thought that he might be embarrassed or ashamed in public from a tweet pointing out his wrongdoings. So, thanks for pointing that out and I think you are probably right.

ETA: I was thinking more along the lines to just ask if he can verify his source that said the truck was parked. But in a roundabout way I guess that is pointing out he is wrong if in fact he is wrong.

 

[Cattools]

You have to go into preferences and click 'save copy of sent messages' or else they don't get saved. I found that out recently myself.

I have that option checked, but can't seem to send mail except to other members.

 

[bakerlady]

You sort of answer your own question... If most abductions/violent crimes are committed by family members, wouldn't they be potentially tipping off the perps by going to them before going to the public? You'd then afford them the time to hide, clean, or destroy the truck before the public was on the lookout for it.

haha I guess I did didn't I. :blushing:

 

[otto]

Not interested in going on the defensive on this, you came in as a 'third party' and had nothing to do with my initial comments. I'm not sure you know what I commented on. Is this like reality tv, where you form "alliances"?

Not at all. It's interesting to read all the different perspectives on the case. I believe that it is the diversity in strengths, experience, insights, interpretations of information, and sleuthing methods that leads to new insights. I've been posting here for a long time, and have to admit that the information that has been posted in relation to this case blew me away in terms of resources that everyone pulled together, and angles that were exposed.

 

[Cattools]

"The fact it was the night of the incident and it was driven in the area several times, it's a good possibility the people in the truck would have information," said Andrus.

people in the truck?????

Andrus said, in response to a reporter's question, that it could not be determined if there was more than 1 person in the truck.

 

[bakerlady]

I also really want to know about that black SUV that seemed to be abandoned in that marshy area. https://twitter.com/SUNjimwells/status/485913963188592641

IMO that would be a good place to bury things in the mud. It looked like that truck was stuck there, did it ever get towed away? Who the heck did it belong to?

 

[Cherchri]

Hmmmm I am not sure about this at all but let's see what everyone else thinks. Maybe his horrific accident happened in 1999 and not when he was a student?

Review - More News November 24, 1999 - Richmond Public library
Nov 24, 1999 - They were struck by a tractor-trailer unit that was heading south on No. ....

https://www.yourlibrary.ca/community/richmondreview/archive/RR19991124/morenews.html

Jul 9, 2014 - 15 posts - &#8206;7 authors
He was belatedly tracked down &#8212; in Richmond, B.C., where he had also been arrested in connection with a stolen tractor-trailer &#8212; in 1999 ...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

haha I guess I did didn't I. :blushing:

No harm no foul. It would be interesting to know what the logic was at the time, who they asked and when, and who knew what info. I suspect if anyone recognized the truck, LE would've been at the acreage immediately.

It may have taken that long to take possession of the video, and they may have asked select family members if they recognized the truck. Unless it comes out at trial, or a family member writes a book, we may never know the timeline or rationale behind the release of the video.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hmmmm I am not sure about this at all but let's see what everyone else thinks. Maybe his horrific accident happened in 199 and not when he was a student?

Review - More News November 24, 1999 - Richmond Public library
Nov 24, 1999 - They were struck by a tractor-trailer unit that was heading south on No. ....

https://www.yourlibrary.ca/community/richmondreview/archive/RR19991124/morenews.html

Jul 9, 2014 - 15 posts - &#8206;7 authors
He was belatedly tracked down &#8212; in Richmond, B.C., where he had also been arrested in connection with a stolen tractor-trailer &#8212; in 1999 ...

He was arrested in Vancouver, BC in May 1999, but was actually caught with the stolen tractor trailer in October 1998 in Richmond, BC:

from:
http://injusticebusters.org/index.htm/newstories3.htm

Then police discovered that Mr. Garland had been arrested in Richmond, B.C., last October in connection with a stolen tractor trailer unit.

 

[otto]

Wow, it seems like this reporter can do no right. He says life changed the day Garland was arrested for murder -- and that's deemed wrong -- off by nine days.

Maybe you don't agree but I think the laying of murder charges and the end of hope that the three people were still alive can be called life changing.

The 200 people figure has been cited in other news reports. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ing-calgary-boy-grandparents/article19449772/

Couldn't the house have both clapboard and siding?

I'm not sure why this reporter is being bashed like this. It's not clear to me there are any errors in the article.

He wrote about when life changed on Range Road 291. That was on July 5, when the massive search of the Airdrie acreage occurred ... helicopters, 40 police walking shoulder to shoulder until they had inspected the entire property, media camped out blocking traffic on the road, nearby sloughs being investigated, dive teams, road blocks in and around Airdrie ... that was significant to people on Range Road 291, not the arrest that happened at 1:30 in the morning nine days later.

I believe that the journalist embellished when he stated that Garland's truck was parked on the street, and that Garland visited the Liknes home at the end of June. In order to support my premise that the journalist may not be concerned with facts, I provided examples where his facts are incorrect. Where there is one mistake, there are probably more. The reporter is not being bashed, but his comments are inconsistent with what was stated at police press conferences. If Garland parked on the street and visited with the victims prior to the murder, that is relevant and important. If it didn't happen, then it should not be reported.