Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

[otto]

maybe one of the backers of winter petroleum?

What's the theory? Was the accused set up, was he involved with a biker gang that murdered a five year old child and his grandparents as a favour, or did he get together with someone that lost money through dealings with one of the victims and together the committed murder?

What evidence is there that more than one person was involved in the three murders?

Is there any evidence that the murders are a result of business dealings? As far as I remember, the evidence led to the accused, and only then was a possible motive understood. It isn't the case that the motive was understood, and therefore someone with business dealings was arrested.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It would be in his best interest to be talking to his lawyer. How many defenses are there: self-defense (not reasonable in this case), reasonable doubt by attacking the evidence (possible) or by blaming someone else(I suppose it is possible), or claiming not criminally responsible on account of mental illness (unlikely in this case).

It all depends what, if anything, was found in the truck and at the acreage.

 

[otto]

Otto, that story was fall of 2013 - since then meth has boomed in Calgary.

http://www.calgaryjournal.ca/index....ports-dramatic-rise-in-crystal-meth-addiction

From your link: "The drug's contents tend to be a combination of toxic chemicals such as lye, Drano, pseudoephedrine, battery acid, insecticides, solvents and ether."

What kind of people are doing that to themselves!

 

[Cattools]

It all depends what, if anything, was found in the truck and the acreage.

How so? Please lead me through this, if you will?

 

[otto]

Perhaps it was the reverse... Maybe HE was looking after the farm, the businesses, and them.

They didn't seem to need any "looking after" when they went camping.

 

[ABro]

I don't know that your statement is fair. The G's might have the acreage but not a lot of money. The community seems very supportive of them, they are active members of their church .... how do you think they would get the money out of their home? They are retired and I'm sure the legal bill will be enormous. DG is an adult, there comes a time where you can't keep financially supporting your kids.

What community support have you seen? Other than an abrasive reverend's tweets, I haven't seen anyone who knows them and/or supports them speak out. Of course, I may very well have missed it.

 

[news.talk]

From your link: "The drug's contents tend to be a combination of toxic chemicals such as lye, Drano, pseudoephedrine, battery acid, insecticides, solvents and ether."

What kind of people are doing that to themselves!

Addicts. Apparently the high surpasses other stimulants and is cheaper, easier to obtain and manufacture.

 

[otto]

One more point from someone living in Calgary. With respect to the Winter Petroleum angle, folks may be reading a lot more into it than necessary. Oil companies get started up all the time. Many fail. From my peripheral involvement in multiple oil companies, I would suggest that, while the investors obviously go into it in the hopes of succeeding, they also know it's a gamble. It's part of the business culture here, and I don't think it's likely for such a failure to yield a murderous rage, IMHO.

If you are involved in the industry, around Calgary or elsewhere, I'd certainly like to know if you agree with me on this. Thoughts, anyone?

If there were dead bodies every time the oil industry laid off employees, Calgary would be murder central.

 

[Cattools]

What community support have you seen? Other than an abrasive reverend's tweets, I haven't seen anyone who knows them and/or supports them speak out. Of course, I may very well have missed it.

Here's a link regarding his parents and their neighbours : http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

 

[otto]

Addicts. Apparently the high surpasses other stimulants and is cheaper, easier to obtain and manufacture.

I'm guessing meth is not the first drug that someone tries, so with youth addictions, it seems like something is going wrong within families.

 

[news.talk]

If there were dead bodies every time the oil industry laid off employees, Calgary would be murder central.

I am laughing only because we are at our 22nd homicide for the year. It is FAR above the national average.

Maybe all the victims were killed by angry oil executives? [emoji69]

 

[ABro]

Here's a link regarding his parents and their neighbours : http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

The only person that quotes is Jim Nevada, the guy who was on TV the first day the press hit the acreage. He says "everyone loves them" which IMO is a meaningless cliche, given that he's lived there for decades and never even met Douglas Garland. Still waiting for someone who actually knows the Garlands and has a story/anecdote that offers insights.

I've been struck by the fact there's been next to nothing so far.

 

[otto]

I am laughing only because we are at our 22nd homicide for the year. It is FAR above the national average.

Maybe all the victims were killed by angry oil executives? [emoji69]

Five victims were murdered at the same location at then end of classes in April. Now there are three victims in one location. There are at least two really crazy people that snapped so far this year. Josh Lall went crazy and murder three family members and a tenant in 2008. Ian Gordon axe murdered three family members in 1998. They're not all oil executives, but I do believe they were all nuts when they committed the murders.

 

[otto]

The only person that quotes is Jim Nevada, the guy who was on TV the first day the press hit the acreage. He says "everyone loves them" which IMO is a meaningless cliche, given that he's lived there for decades and never even met Douglas Garland. Still waiting for someone who actually knows the Garlands and has a story/anecdote that offers insights.

I've been struck by the fact there's been next to nothing so far.

How would anyone know how the family of the accused is doing? It's certainly not something that should be in the news.

 

[sheshecanada]

http://m.torontosun.com/2014/07/28/red-scorpions-gang-member-arrested-in-red-deer-alert

 

[Cattools]

What community support have you seen? Other than an abrasive reverend's tweets, I haven't seen anyone who knows them and/or supports them speak out. Of course, I may very well have missed it.

Does this really matter to you. He's an adult. They are in their 80s. Whose going to be making statements to the media about the accused or the parent's of the accused? The parents appear to be stable members of the community having lived there for 40 years.

 

[bakerlady]

Back on July 5th, I was speaking with a woman who had access to some information - and at that time she told me that 3 bodies were found. As the search carried on, I kind of just thought she was full of crap and moved on.

Coincidentally on that same date, the Amber Alert was taken down for about 20 mins (this I saw with my own eyes). After that 20 mins or so, the Amber alert was put back to active. Make of that what you will, but it was strange.

I remember this being mentioned and I remember the quote "piece, by piece, by piece, by piece" from the Chief and I am going to have to put a...

graphic warning

But I kept getting the idea that either acid and or lye was used. I have read that in using both of these, often bone is left behind but everything else is gone. So I imagine if DG did this, that there would be fragments scattered about, and/or he pulverized it somehow and there were tiny little pieces scattered around.


IMO if that is true it might be too graphic to share with the public and/or the family.

 

[ella20]

Proof of intent might be in how he disposed of bodies.

Not sure if I agree... He had time after the crime to come up with disposal methods, so I don't think that would necessarily relate to intent... Unless they could prove that he specifically procured disposal stuff in advance, and they'd have to be able to prove that he acquired it specifically for that purpose...

 

[otto]

On the other hand, all the discussion about disintegrating three bodies is completely inconsistent with the activities of Vieworx using their helicopter and software to analyse the ground in and around the acreage.

 

[otto]

Not sure if I agree... He had time after the crime to come up with disposal methods, so I don't think that would necessarily relate to intent... Unless they could prove that he specifically procured disposal stuff in advance, and they'd have to be able to prove that he acquired it specifically for that purpose...

That's what I meant ... that if something like muriatic acid was purchased, that it was done shortly before the murders and it is now nowhere to be found.