Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #11

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Simple, open it in Gimp2 and use the measurement tool from a prominent corner of the vehicle, centered in the middle of the "fuzz" of the corresponding shadow. Basic angle, since we already know the light is coming from the right side of the picture with the truck in it.

Which shadow? There is darkness on every side of the truck. Look at the picture from a distance and follow the brighter lines from the headlights. It looks less like a shadow, and more a lightening of the road ahead of the vehicle. Look closely at the parked car... Only a portion of it is lightened, the rest looks like it is in the dark as if the photo has been digitally enhanced.

As well, wouldn't the point of view of the camera have to be factored in to the equation?
 
It's entirely consistent with much of what has been speculated here. If LE had no conclusive evidence that NO was harmed at the house, and had not yet learned about the fa rm, then NO getting away, or being alive somewhere is a viable theory.

Let's face it... Why would anyone remove the bodies, just to move them to a ditch or field? You risk being seen, contaminating your vehicle and belongings with DNA, and it's a lot of extra, tedious work. It's safe to assume the plan, most likely, was to completely destroy and dispose of the bodies. LE themselves said volunteer searchers don't know what they are looking for. There has been a lot of talk of chemicals, but not so much of machinery, or custom made machinery. If we assume that whatever process was used to destroy the bodies wasn't cleaned up properly, or didn't work successfully, then LE would have found evidence of the victims bodies at the location they we taken to, be it tissue, bone, dust, fluids or any combination of such. They could then conclude all 3 were deceased, especially if it were something like bone, teeth, or brain matter.

However, it doesn't prove WHERE all 3 died. All 3 may have perished at the house, but if one were hypothetically strangled, leaving little or no evidence behind, but something was found at a different location, then they can conclude that one is deceased. They can't prove a kidnapping, and can't conclusively specify where they died.

I was reading about the Tim Bosma investigation on another WS thread, and read that the accused had ordered a livestock incinerator a year earlier, yet he had no cattle on any of his land.
It made me wonder about LE's search around the Agriculture Canada site, and the ominous sign "Post Mortem Only" in their cargo bay. Could DG have tried to dispose of what was left of his victims there?
 
I was reading about the Tim Bosma investigation on another WS thread, and read that the accused had ordered a livestock incinerator a year earlier, yet he had no cattle on any of his land.
It made me wonder about LE's search around the Agriculture Canada site, and the ominous sign "Post Mortem Only" in their cargo bay. Could DG have tried to dispose of what was left of his victims there?

Would something like that not be monitored?
 
Would something like that not be monitored?

That's a good question. I didn't realize how much we were being monitored these days, until I started following here. You would think with traffic cams, and weather cams, cctvs on homes and monitoring devices everywhere, that getting away with crime would be a huge challenge.
 
That's a good question. I didn't realize how much we were being monitored these days, until I started following here. You would think with traffic cams, and weather cams, cctvs on homes and monitoring devices everywhere, that getting away with crime would be a huge challenge.
Hopefully this turns out to be the case here. I have a feeling LE has A LOT more than we know.
 
I was reading about the Tim Bosma investigation on another WS thread, and read that the accused had ordered a livestock incinerator a year earlier, yet he had no cattle on any of his land.
It made me wonder about LE's search around the Agriculture Canada site, and the ominous sign "Post Mortem Only" in their cargo bay. Could DG have tried to dispose of what was left of his victims there?
Well it's certainly possible that LE considered that very possibility and that was the reason for the search at that site.
 
Well it's certainly possible that LE considered that very possibility and that was the reason for the search at that site.

I agree. It does seem like the search stopped completely after they searched around there. I still think they would have released a statement if bodies or parts of bodies were found though.
 
I agree. It does seem like the search stopped completely after they searched around there. I still think they would have released a statement if bodies or parts of bodies were found though.

I'm not real sure LE would find it necessary to share such detail with the public when they have already announced their conclusion that all 3 family members are homicide victims. That conclusion would only have been reached due to the totality of their evidence to date, and they have not shared any of their evidence with the public. The continued search may be for partial remains and details are being kept under wraps, not only to protect the investigation, but out of respect for the family's dignity and privacy.
 
I just wanted to re-post 2 transcriptions of mine from the July 14th presser on thread 7 (re:Garland's arrest)

1. Finally, AS OF YESTERDAY, all doubt was removed that it was a missing person's investigation, and was now a murder investigation.

2. Evidence that was collected allowed us to arrest at 1:30 a.m. this morning
 
Regarding Motive

I think I might have figured out what was going on with all the oil and construction companies. We recently learned that Panama is a tax shelter for Germans, and Canadians. We know that Alvin Liknes had registered a company in Panama. Chances are, that company was paid something from the companies that were listed and delisted within a couple of years. His connections with some kind of house flipping scheme in Florida (?anyone remember where that was), where the other guy was arrested, are more interesting than Hell's Angels or gang connections. He was bankrupt in 1994. He created Winter Petroleum. He registered a joint patent in 2000 (or 2001 ... it was posted recently ... anyone have the link?), and then several additional patents with modifications of that patent. Other patents are based on a recent modification of the patent.

He listed and delisted about a dozen construction and oil/gas companies, mostly in the last 8 years. What happened to those company assets? Were they put into the Panama account as a tax bracket?

I still think that the biggest complaint that the accused had against the victim is that he took from others, and planned to sail into the sunset ... leaving everyone to pick up the pieces.

note: "took from others" means that he declared bankruptcy twice rather than repay debt

I admit that I have heard a lot of defence about oil companies that routinely come and go in an oil city like Calgary. But how many oil and construction companies owned by the same man come and go. How many engineers run both oil/gas companies and construction companies. That's where there is a problem, not that oil/gas companies were popping up and disappearing, but that construction companies are doing the same thing in a booming construction economy.
 
IMO, the markings on the cement are from someone carrying a bag above the ground rather than dragging it. My reason for thinking this is if it was dragged on the ground and leaked, the pattern would not be so wiggly but rather more straight in path however if someone was carrying a bag say over the shoulder and there was a pin prick hole this is exactly what the liquid would do when it drips on to the ground. It would be more variant in the pattern like it is in the photo. Therefore, imo it is a small pin prick hole in the bag rather than a tear or rip and being carried above the ground level likely over the shoulder.
In terms of an office chair scenario. IMO not likely as there are three wheels generally on a office chair and I would think that would have left more of a pattern. Same can be said for a dolly which has two wheels generally.

It's hard to say, I have a hard time grasping the hole in the bag reasoning, only because that pattern looks very defined, very curvy, and almost a repeated-like pattern. Dripping/leaking would be more spotting and different sized droplets on the pavement and not a consistent, repeated-like aspect to it. I keep picturing a loose wheel on a shopping cart that would make that mark for some reason, have no idea why…JMO. And it would only take one wheel being wet to make the mark, not necessarily all 3 or 4 wheels got wet by something.
 
View attachment 56097
We should also keep in mind that the cement walkway would be on a slight grade for water and snow run off purposes. This may or may not affect the conclusions of how the pattern was created.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/cms/binary/9994200.jpg

Definitely, good point. The pattern could've been something as simple as the water not being turned off all the way on the hose and it dripped down on a slope and left a water/stream imprint and nothing to do with dragging anything.
 
Regarding Motive

I think I might have figured out what was going on with all the oil and construction companies. We recently learned that Panama is a tax shelter for Germans, and Canadians. We know that Alvin Liknes had registered a company in Panama. Chances are, that company was paid something from the companies that were listed and delisted within a couple of years. His connections with some kind of house flipping scheme in Florida (?anyone remember where that was), where the other guy was arrested, are more interesting than Hell's Angels or gang connections. He was bankrupt in 1994. He created Winter Petroleum. He registered a joint patent in 2000 (or 2001 ... it was posted recently ... anyone have the link?), and then several additional patents with modifications of that patent. Other patents are based on a recent modification of the patent.

He listed and delisted about a dozen construction and oil/gas companies, mostly in the last 8 years. What happened to those company assets? Were they put into the Panama account as a tax bracket?

I still think that the biggest complaint that the accused had against the victim is that he took from others, and planned to sail into the sunset ... leaving everyone to pick up the pieces.

note: "took from others" means that he declared bankruptcy twice rather than repay debt

I admit that I have heard a lot of defence about oil companies that routinely come and go in an oil city like Calgary. But how many oil and construction companies owned by the same man come and go. How many engineers run both oil/gas companies and construction companies. That's where there is a problem, not that oil/gas companies were popping up and disappearing, but that construction companies are doing the same thing in a booming construction economy.

I agree, I don't think DG got ripped off, or was owed money by AL nor him owing AL money. I still think his motive was all about principal, similar to what you're saying. I don't think DG liked the unfairness (in his eyes) of something AL did or a way AL treated him or someone close to him. I don't think it's about money, I don't think DG cares about money. I think it's about ideas, credit, principals, fairness and I think DG felt just in his cause (in his warped sad, pathetic way).
 
Wow! Okay, so this sounds like a sophisticated theory. Do you think it is possible any of the three are alive?
 
I completely agree with both you and otto. The other day I made a WS slip and my post was removed. However, further stunning sleuthing by another member and then further sleuthing by me actually draws very close to the Garland property and is connected to one of Canadas largest fraud cases. It has been forwarded to LE in Calgary. I wish I could post this to WS but I am learning the sleuthing rules as I go (even after reading them). This is such a complex case (from a motive stand point) and could have been resolved with or via so many other legal routes. It's such a brutal tragedy, and a completely avoidable one at that.
Stan

Do you think DG thought KL was culpable or just collateral damage?
 
I completely agree with both you and otto. The other day I made a WS slip and my post was removed. However, further stunning sleuthing by another member and then further sleuthing by me actually draws very close to the Garland property and is connected to one of Canadas largest fraud cases. It has been forwarded to LE in Calgary. I wish I could post this to WS but I am learning the sleuthing rules as I go (even after reading them). This is such a complex case (from a motive stand point) and could have been resolved with or via so many other legal routes. It's such a brutal tragedy, and a completely avoidable one at that.
Stan

I'm curious to hear if and when this all comes to the surface Stan. It is so sad, and the saddest part of it all is the little boy Nathan who had no idea about it any of it :(
 
Do you think DG thought KL was culpable or just collateral damage?

I think DG viewed KL and AL as one in the same. It's a lame comparison and comes back to extreme principal (on DG's part), much like the kevin spacey character giving his speech in the car ride at the end of the movie se7en. I would like to believe NO is at a safe house or alive but think that DG just couldn't figure out the snafu of his plan and murdered NO.
 
I think DG viewed KL and AL as one in the same. It's a lame comparison and comes back to extreme principal (on DG's part), much like the kevin spacey character giving his speech in the car ride at the end of the movie se7en. I would like to believe NO is at a safe house or alive but think that DG just couldn't figure out the snafu of his plan and murdered NO.

It bothers me to no end, that he couldn't let the innocent child go somewhere, anywhere! It's all so senseless. I think you're right on - I think he had a major problem with the couple and what they stood for and felt he had to punish them or teach them a lesson. Terrible.
 
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