Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[winnnancy]

What kind of coverage can we expect to see on the 14th?
Will court be open to the public?
Will they group and list evidence?

 

[Cherchri]

What kind of coverage can we expect to see on the 14th?
Will court be open to the public?
Will they group and list evidence?

DG will be asked to enter a plea. He may apply for bail. He will likely appear via CCTV and the procedure will likely take less than half an hour. There has been nothing published about restrictions so should be possible for members of the public to attend.

 

[goodasgold]

I am not blaming the victims or putting down the CPS in any way with this post. I just am sharing some, imo, interesting reads regarding the other avenue being explored here of the victims being alive. (even if these reads do not pertain to this case, they are interesting). I also put a blurb regarding disposal of bodies. Wonder if DG has pigs?

*Over the years murder victims have been disposed of by secret burial, burning or acid. Water is a favorite dumping spot, especially shark filled waters. Once in a Connecticut case a wood chipper was used, in 1998 in Florida it was alligators. Two brothers in Michigan boasted of cutting up victims (yes, plural) and feeding them to their pigs. Cannibal Jeffery Dahmer got rid of some evidence by eating it. Too often, as in the sensational New Mexico murder trial of Girlie Chew Hossencofft in 2002, no body is ever located.


http://cubiclebreak.com/how-to-disappear-faking-your-own-death/

(Look at 2.3 - Faked Murder on the site above)



http://everything2.com/title/How+to+fake+your+own+death

 

[kaley]

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/56563739
I was cross referencing some photos with the KL kijiji ads today and found something odd imo.
As with a facebook page, a kijiji ad page has a password function to log on and amend or delete ads. I noted that several of the furniture item kijiji ads that were previously posted on KL's kijiji page have been removed but several ads still remain for sale. If memory serves me correctly, the items that have been removed from kijiji ads are:
dining/kitchen table and chairs
living room furniture on main level (cream striped colored couch and loveseat, coffee table)
large fern plant
foosball table
office furniture - desks

I realize this likely is not important on the face of it however what it does demonstrate to me is someone has the kijiji ad password and more to that the family is still actively trying to sell the remaining items if they did not remove the ads from kijiji at the time the others were deleted.

I am thinking of the neighbor who was interviewed by msm and was brought into the home by the mover and stated that items were being taken into storage by the family. I surmise that the family is still actively trying to sell the items via kijiji if they are in storage. ??? I would say then that the items not removed from the kijiji ads are for sale and are sellable items. Please draw from that statement that imo the items for sale have no forensic content. And thus likely not involved in the crime scene. To my thinking then, leather set (still for sale on kijiji) being in the office would not be the crime scene and the same could be thought for the pull out couch in the basement (still for sale on kijiji). IMO the crime was in the bedroom as a matter of deduction.

Side note: the candle -cup cake holder many were wondering on WS if the family had put it outside the home for the memorial is still on the kijiji ads as a for sale item. I would assume by that it is in the family's possession.

As well, not sure if this ad was always there originally or whether it has recently been added but there is a kijiji ad for the sale of a Moving company website on KL's kijiji profile.

In summation, it is clear items have been removed from KL's kijiji profile since the estate sale advertisements and subsequent crimes have occurred.
To what end, and who updated and removed items is unclear.

The website business was advertised back when I started looking at the kijiji ads. Approx. A month ago I guess.
Interesting that some items have been removed but likely one of the kids helped post the items and the sale. As was said already. I help my parents list things all the time. However this does seem strange as KL owned a website company. You would think she wouldn't need help with kijiji.
IMO

 

[PennyM]

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/56563739
I was cross referencing some photos with the KL kijiji ads today and found something odd imo.
As with a facebook page, a kijiji ad page has a password function to log on and amend or delete ads. I noted that several of the furniture item kijiji ads that were previously posted on KL's kijiji page have been removed but several ads still remain for sale. If memory serves me correctly, the items that have been removed from kijiji ads are:
dining/kitchen table and chairs
living room furniture on main level (cream striped colored couch and loveseat, coffee table)
large fern plant
foosball table
office furniture - desks

I realize this likely is not important on the face of it however what it does demonstrate to me is someone has the kijiji ad password and more to that the family is still actively trying to sell the remaining items if they did not remove the ads from kijiji at the time the others were deleted.

I am thinking of the neighbor who was interviewed by msm and was brought into the home by the mover and stated that items were being taken into storage by the family. I surmise that the family is still actively trying to sell the items via kijiji if they are in storage. ??? I would say then that the items not removed from the kijiji ads are for sale and are sellable items. Please draw from that statement that imo the items for sale have no forensic content. And thus likely not involved in the crime scene. To my thinking then, leather set (still for sale on kijiji) being in the office would not be the crime scene and the same could be thought for the pull out couch in the basement (still for sale on kijiji). IMO the crime was in the bedroom as a matter of deduction.

Side note: the candle -cup cake holder many were wondering on WS if the family had put it outside the home for the memorial is still on the kijiji ads as a for sale item. I would assume by that it is in the family's possession.

As well, not sure if this ad was always there originally or whether it has recently been added but there is a kijiji ad for the sale of a Moving company website on KL's kijiji profile.

In summation, it is clear items have been removed from KL's kijiji profile since the estate sale advertisements and subsequent crimes have occurred.
To what end, and who updated and removed items is unclear.

I believe the ads in question have expired. According to kijiji the ads should expire after 60 days.

"Ads in most categories stay on Kijiji for 60 days. The exceptions are:

• Vacation Rental listings, which last 365 days.
• Paid Dealer and Real Estate Professional listings, which last 31 days.
• Paid dog and puppy listings in our Pets category, which last 31 days.
A few days prior to when your regular Ad is set to expire, you will receive an email notification with the option to repost it. Reposting a regular Ad extends its life by another 60-day period, and brings it back to the top of the first page of its category. " http://help.kijiji.net/ca/knowledgebase.php?article=12

I don't remember the exact dates but I do remember the ads were placed on various dates. There is an ad dated 13-Jun-14 so if that one disappears in a day or then we will know for sure.

 

[Cherchri]

Answering the Charge
In court, the accused person, sometimes called the defendant, is told what offence he or she is accused of and enters a plea of either guilty or not guilty if the matter is to be heard in provincial court. An accused person who has an election, and who chooses to have a preliminary inquiry and be tried by a judge alone or a judge and jury, does not make a plea until after the preliminary inquiry.

If the accused pleads guilty, a trial is not necessary and the judge will sentence the defendant either immediately or at a later date. (Sentencing is discussed more fully later in this booklet.)

If the accused person pleads not guilty, the judge will set a trial date and, where applicable, set a date for a preliminary inquiry.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/guide/sech.html

A preliminary inquiry is a hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to justify sending the case to trial.

At the preliminary inquiry, the Crown prosecutor presents critical elements of the evidence against the accused. Witnesses may be called, and victims may have to give evidence at this time.

If the judge finds that there is not enough evidence to send the case to trial, he or she will dismiss the charge. If the judge finds that there is enough evidence to justify a trial, the judge commits the accused person to trial and, if the accused pleads not guilty, sets a trial date.

 

[goodasgold]

A little off topic here but how do you get a profile pic on here? I do not see where to upload it.

 

[YYC Lady]

On global news just a few minutes ago, they had a brief interview with the accused's lawyer. He has not received any disclosure materials and confirmed that homicide detectives have been to see DG in prison several times over past few weeks. (Reporter in VoiceOver says that such visits are not typical). Also went on to say that police continue to search surrounding areas for evidence and bodies.

So...given the multitude of visits to the accused, I wonder if there's any chance he may plead guilty? (Maybe in exchange for a reduced sentence, he tells them where to find bodies/remains?)

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Agreed, the children of PG are not relevant to this[modsnip].

Thanks idbd It may not be relevant to the case in mosts opinion, but for me...it just draws another dotted line between AL and DG on the family tree. Wonder if they ever attended the same events as grandfather and uncle ... say a birthday party, a christening, or some such other event? Which would in fact prove that the information about them not having any contact for the past 7 years is not accurate. This could also mean that there may have been a relationship between AL and DG of sorts, either business or otherwise thrown into this pot of very complex and intertwined information. If this is the case AL (jr) has, IMO, purposely relayed incorrect information. I would wonder why he would do that? In fact, saying that DG has had no contact with AL for 7 years (to his knowledge) ...up until now, suggests that DG is far-removed from AL. I have wondered if he was somehow being protective of DG? He is so non-judgemental when most people would likely be enraged. JMO. I sure admire AL (jr) for his neutral demeanor to the accused, he is in such a tough position, yet he has not pointed his finger at his brother-in-law...even with all the evidence.

I'm not sure what the relevance of another sister has to do with this case? Or for that matter, why has PG been made such a public interest? I have 3 brothers and I am fairly close to them, however, if they were accused of doing such a thing, I don't understand why I would become of such public interest? My brothers' actions have nothing to do with me, unless they found my fingerprints or dna at the scene of the crime. They are adults as is DG. Sorry, not being difficult, just a little confused.

 

[winnnancy]

On global news just a few minutes ago, they had a brief interview with the accused's lawyer. He has not received any disclosure materials and confirmed that homicide detectives have been to see DG in prison several times over past few weeks. (Reporter in VoiceOver says that such visits are not typical). Also went on to say that police continue to search surrounding areas for evidence and bodies.

So...given the multitude of visits to the accused, I wonder if there's any chance he may plead guilty? (Maybe in exchange for a reduced sentence, he tells them where to find bodies/remains?)

Does anyone know when disclosure should be received in criminal cases? In family law,
It can be relatively short notice and often is as a strategy.

 

[Cherchri]

A little off topic here but how do you get a profile pic on here? I do not see where to upload it.

If you go into settings you can add an avatar and a profile pic. It took me a while.

 

[Krystine]

A little off topic here but how do you get a profile pic on here? I do not see where to upload it.

Top right side of screen, MyProfile, then Settings. Left side of screen gives you options...choose edit profile pic.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

On global news just a few minutes ago, they had a brief interview with the accused's lawyer. He has not received any disclosure materials and confirmed that homicide detectives have been to see DG in prison several times over past few weeks. (Reporter in VoiceOver says that such visits are not typical). Also went on to say that police continue to search surrounding areas for evidence and bodies.

So...given the multitude of visits to the accused, I wonder if there's any chance he may plead guilty? (Maybe in exchange for a reduced sentence, he tells them where to find bodies/remains?)

That is very interesting information!! Hmmm, not surprised about the disclosure materials, that seems to be quite common in many cases. I know of someone who appeared in court twice over a 3 month period for a DUI and his lawyer had not received the disclosure documents. In this case, there is likely such a large amount that it will take a while. IMO then, what will happen on August 14th is DG's lawyer will ask for time to review the disclosure documents before his client can enter a plea. Such is the legal system, lots of delays.

It is interesting though that LE continue to visit DG...I didn't know that was allowable once the charges were laid and the accused retained a lawyer. Wouldn't that be possibly considered harassment and dissuaded by DG's counsel? LE obviously need to talk to him about something. LE said the "matter was before the courts", so why would they keep approaching DG? Seems odd IMO.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I believe the ads in question have expired. According to kijiji the ads should expire after 60 days.

"Ads in most categories stay on Kijiji for 60 days. The exceptions are:

• Vacation Rental listings, which last 365 days.
• Paid Dealer and Real Estate Professional listings, which last 31 days.
• Paid dog and puppy listings in our Pets category, which last 31 days.
A few days prior to when your regular Ad is set to expire, you will receive an email notification with the option to repost it. Reposting a regular Ad extends its life by another 60-day period, and brings it back to the top of the first page of its category. " http://help.kijiji.net/ca/knowledgebase.php?article=12

I don't remember the exact dates but I do remember the ads were placed on various dates. There is an ad dated 13-Jun-14 so if that one disappears in a day or then we will know for sure.

Oh dear, I was way off base wasn't I...Thanks Penny.

 

[CentralAlberta]

Just because AL's son stated that there has been no contact between the accused and the two intended murder victims for the last 7 years does not make it fact. I've read the article several times regarding his statement but thank you very much for providing the link to that.
There are children, and if those children's father is AL(son), that makes AL(sr) and DG extended family by marriage. Common-law is considered marriage in Canada. Family typically will iron out differences eventually and if so, this would support the point I was trying to make that the statement of AL and DG not having any contact in 7 years may not be accurate. Which could also mean that they may have had recent business dealings that no one knows about, as I believe was mentioned before be a few other posters. If they have, that may also prove a motive for DG committing the crime. I will look into and find out if PG and AL do in fact have children together, just for interest's sake.

Even if DG is an uncle of AL's grandchildren, it doesn't mean they were in contact. In my family, and many I know, holidays, birthdays, etc. are not celebrated with in in-laws of married children. My brothers and sister never had anything to do with my mother-in-law except on my wedding day. I don't think it is unreasonable for AL and DG to have had no contact with each other in 6/7 years even if they did have nieces/nephews/grandchildren in common.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

On global news just a few minutes ago, they had a brief interview with the accused's lawyer. He has not received any disclosure materials and confirmed that homicide detectives have been to see DG in prison several times over past few weeks. (Reporter in VoiceOver says that such visits are not typical). Also went on to say that police continue to search surrounding areas for evidence and bodies.

So...given the multitude of visits to the accused, I wonder if there's any chance he may plead guilty? (Maybe in exchange for a reduced sentence, he tells them where to find bodies/remains?)

Good info YYC Lady. If LE have been to speak with accused several times could it be that DG simply does not speak? and LE keep trying to break the shell? IMO I just don't see DG talking or pleading guilt for a lessor sentence. He likely realizes he is in jail for life either way if found guilty. What could be the bargaining chip?

 

[otto]

That is very interesting information!! Hmmm, not surprised about the disclosure materials, that seems to be quite common in many cases. I know of someone who appeared in court twice over a 3 month period for a DUI and his lawyer had not received the disclosure documents. In this case, there is likely such a large amount that it will take a while. IMO then, what will happen on August 14th is DG's lawyer will ask for time to review the disclosure documents before his client can enter a plea. Such is the legal system, lots of delays.

It is interesting though that LE continue to visit DG...I didn't know that was allowable once the charges were laid and the accused retained a lawyer. Wouldn't that be possibly considered harassment and dissuaded by DG's counsel? LE obviously need to talk to him about something. LE said the "matter was before the courts", so why would they keep approaching DG? Seems odd IMO.

Perhaps the accused wants to talk to police. Perhaps he's curious about the investigation. Maybe he thinks he's so clever that he can talk his way out of this.

The prosecutor has 30 days from the time of arrest to release discovery related to the arrest.

 

[goodasgold]

Thanks idbd It may not be relevant to the case in mosts opinion, but for me...it just draws another dotted line between AL and DG on the family tree. Wonder if they ever attended the same events as grandfather and uncle ... say a birthday party, a christening, or some such other event? Which would in fact prove that the information about them not having any contact for the past 7 years is not accurate. This could also mean that there may have been a relationship between AL and DG of sorts, either business or otherwise thrown into this pot of very complex and intertwined information. If this is the case AL (jr) has, IMO, purposely relayed incorrect information. I would wonder why he would do that? In fact, saying that DG has had no contact with AL for 7 years (to his knowledge) ...up until now, suggests that DG is far-removed from AL. I have wondered if he was somehow being protective of DG? He is so non-judgemental when most people would likely be enraged. JMO. I sure admire AL (jr) for his neutral demeanor to the accused, he is in such a tough position, yet he has not pointed his finger at his brother-in-law...even with all the evidence.

I'm not sure what the relevance of another sister has to do with this case? Or for that matter, why has PG been made such a public interest? I have 3 brothers and I am fairly close to them, however, if they were accused of doing such a thing, I don't understand why I would become of such public interest? My brothers' actions have nothing to do with me, unless they found my fingerprints or dna at the scene of the crime. They are adults as is DG. Sorry, not being difficult, just a little confused.

LE has not said much about the parents of DG nor the other sister. I think PG was only mentioned as she is married to the son of one of the victims.

 

[otto]

Good info YYC Lady. If LE have been to speak with accused several times could it be that DG simply does not speak? and LE keep trying to break the shell? IMO I just don't see DG talking or pleading guilt for a lessor sentence. He likely realizes he is in jail for life either way if found guilty. What could be the bargaining chip?

His only bargaining chip is revealing the location of the remains of the three victims. Russell Williams is a serial killer, and he is eligible for parole after 25 years ... although that doesn't mean it will happen. The accused is facing mass murder charges. I think he could negotiate a deal whereby he is eligible for parole after 25 years in exchange for a guilty plea and information about the location of the remains.

 

[goodasgold]

His only bargaining chip is revealing the location of the remains of the three victims. Russell Williams is a serial killer, and he is eligible for parole after 25 years ... although that doesn't mean it will happen. The accused is facing mass murder charges. I think he could negotiate a deal whereby he is eligible for parole after 25 years in exchange for a guilty plea and information about the location of the remains.

OMG i have Robin Williams on my mind because of his suicide today, so i read Robin Williams at first. I see it is Russell you were talking about. Good thing i looked twice at that.