Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #6

[Leeman68]

I keep being drawn back to the very initial communications on day 1 of this "Amber Alert". At the time, nobody - not us or LE - would have guessed we'd be at this stage 2 weeks later.

As such, the early communications and assumptions are kind of interesting. Not necessarily *accurate*, but still interesting.

IIRC, the initial messaging was they weren't sure if anything happened at the house, but the public should be looking for the child, possibly in the company of his grandfather.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I remember the beginnings of the Amber Alert. The grandmother was conspicuously less emphasized.

Why?

Many on here are assuming that it may have been AL that was injured. Here's my thoughts, what if KL was the one who was seriously/severly ingured that night to show AL that whoever did this means business? What if the LE already have a blood match on that for KL and it was AL & NO that were taken from the home and that KL is not likely to survive for long. Could that be why the Amber Alert specifically makes mention that NO could be with his grandfather? The LE already know something about KL that we don't. Just a thought on my part.

If this were the case, could AL & NO still be alive and being held by DG's accomplice trying to shake down for money owed once the heat from LE subsides?

 

[elmomom]

I'm in the UK and I know maybe our law system is different but ... if your LE had SO much on DG wouldn't they be holding him for questioning relating to the disappearance?

Well, I am in the US and I am not all that familiar with the law in Canada. But in the US, once a suspect stops talking, or gets a lawyer, there is very little that LE can do other than arrest the person. Once an arrest is made, they need to charge the crime in a court. In the US, frequently they will move quite slowly until they have all the evidence ready to go before an arrest. This is especially true when there is no body - you can try a case both in the US and in Canada and win without a body, but nobody says it is a sure thing, or easy. So it is preferable to wait until the body has been found. I believe that the fact LE is so openly calling DG a suspect, and having obtained warrants to search his property and continue searching, as well as having impounded his vehicle, means that they have brought a good amount of evidence to a judge to justify. It serves no one to release that evidence to the public, and I don't think they could have made it any clearer that they are still convinced that they have their man.

 

[mrazda71]

So in Canada, is a person of interest a suspect or are they 2 different things?

 

[LoriMcA]

Well, I am in the US and I am not all that familiar with the law in Canada. But in the US, once a suspect stops talking, or gets a lawyer, there is very little that LE can do other than arrest the person. Once an arrest is made, they need to charge the crime in a court. In the US, frequently they will move quite slowly until they have all the evidence ready to go before an arrest. This is especially true when there is no body - you can try a case both in the US and in Canada and win without a body, but nobody says it is a sure thing, or easy. So it is preferable to wait until the body has been found. I believe that the fact LE is so openly calling DG a suspect, and having obtained warrants to search his property and continue searching, as well as having impounded his vehicle, means that they have brought a good amount of evidence to a judge to justify. It serves no one to release that evidence to the public, and I don't think they could have made it any clearer that they are still convinced that they have their man.

BBM^

I agree ...but I also feel they are focused on more than just DG ...JMOO....
I think there is an accomplice...or he may be the accomplice. I tend to think the latter. All this attention to the truck...the farm...the landfills...back to the farm...holding DG for a week....

Someone on the outside who may be involved...I would suspect they would be worried about what is being 'discussed' between DG & LE...

Maybe they want this other person(s) to get nervous and mess up ...? IMO

I keep thinking about magic tricks...the magician has everyone looking in one direction while they are actually doing something somewhere else.....art of distraction...that's the term!

Anyways...JMOO...I think they have another on their radar...someone who either was partnered with DG or had DG 'help'....Just some of the wording in the initial days by certain people.....had my hinky meter going off.....I won't speculate who...although I have in my mind a good idea.....but as I've said before....I'm not going to point fingers.....

At this point....13 days ...I'm finding it very difficult to stay upbeat and positive about the outcome.....I've said it before and will say it again...my heart hurts & I wouldn't wish this kind of grief and pain on my worst enemy....the poor family....I cannot even imagine......

 

[bakerlady]

Suspects are usually kept in custody and charged with a crime. POI means they have some evidence but not enough to hold someone or charge them.

 

[kodi]

I keep being drawn back to the very initial communications on day 1 of this "Amber Alert". At the time, nobody - not us or LE - would have guessed we'd be at this stage 2 weeks later.

As such, the early communications and assumptions are kind of interesting. Not necessarily *accurate*, but still interesting.

IIRC, the initial messaging was they weren't sure if anything happened at the house, but the public should be looking for the child, possibly in the company of his grandfather.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I remember the beginnings of the Amber Alert. The grandmother was conspicuously less emphasized.

Why?

The initial amber alert reminding me very much of the case of Hannah Anderson. When the amber alert was issued for that case, it stated her and her brother were missing when actuality her brother was never with them. What was so frustrating was that LE knew this, or was very near 100% to knowing this, because they highly suspected one of the bodies found out the scene was the brother. The family even released this on social media but LE did not change the amber alert for days. Makes a big difference when ones trying to keep an eye open for individuals and the alert isn't clear. All JMO.

 

[deugirtni]

Forgive me guys, I was trying to catch up last evening on what I had missed during the day while at work, and my posts ended up being wayyyyy down the road, when this mystery had already been solved! I guess I should start reading from the most recent post, backwards, rather than trying to catch up from where I left off?? :blushing:

<snip for space>

It's been determined and posted a couple of times that the second photo is of the neighbouring farm NOT the Garland farm. DG's truck was taken from the Garland farm Friday evening, July 4 .. media pics didn't even start at the farm until Saturday, July 5.

 

[bakerlady]

I still get the Breaking Bad vibe from this bunch. DG may have been a bit of a loner socially but he must have had several business associates. If he was manufacturing meth he would have been in close contact with dealers, and chemical suppliers and other types of riff raff.

Interestingly enough AL was also involved in the 'chemical' business in one form or another.

I mean seriously....how many of you have seen Breaking Bad?

 

[mayelf]

Just thinking of the chemical angle... I was thinking if they had found the truck there would more than likely be incriminating evidence... then I was thinking what if it was cleaned with chemicals and they -think- there is evidence but the DNA was stripped off from chemicals so they can't actually say he did it or not.

 

[deugirtni]

I think a POI is a person that LE thinks is worth pursuing more information about; a suspect is someone LE is actively pursuing, seeking proof, because they already have information leading them to 'suspect' the person, and then once there is enough information obtained in order to support charges, the suspect becomes the 'accused'. There could be several POIs in any given case, which may or may not end up leading them to 'suspect' the person once more info is obtained.

So in Canada, is a person of interest a suspect or are they 2 different things?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

So DG hasn't left the Remand Centre Yet. I'am wondering if he was depending on his mom and dad for everything. Now it makes me wonder what his parents suspect that he has done in this crime. Have the police told them a lot of what evidence they have found or do they just know that their son is involved.

I would think that they would give him $750.00 if he didn't have it. And you would think that they would have put him up in a safe place where media and public couldn't get to him, if they wanted to help him. That says a lot. I believe his family know a lot more about his character and state of mind and what he is capable of. Which kind of scares me.

If he was scared to be out in the public and staying at a homeless shelter why would he even ask for bail. I think every move this man makes is calculated on his part. Even down to the part that he moves in close to the monitor and the judge asks him if he has a hard time hearing, and he says no that he can't see. I think he wanted it to seem like he has bad eye sight and couldn't see, so how could he possibly have done this crime at night.

Anyway if/when he finally get his bail I'am sure that LE will have "Undercover Homeless" people at the mustard seed seeing if they can find anything out as I'am sure they already had some Undercover prisoners with him as well.

I just hope that if he does get out of jail and with him being described as a loner and mental health issues that they watch him. That he doesn't get any firearms and a vehicle while the police and RCMP are at the farm. I would not want a repeat of the Mayerthorpe, Alberta Tragedy from 9yrs ago.

IMO

Some great points, he does seem very calculated and I'm very curious about what his family members know.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I believe it could be family and DG together. Whoever it was, I think that AL and KL knew them.

I think this angle is very plausible also - DG could have done this with another person (family?) and is remaining loyal to them.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hadn't seen this article before .. Alvin's sister EE speaks about the case:

http://ecareview.com/veteran-area-relatives-share-pain-of-missing-child-grandparents/

 

[skibaboo]

I still get the Breaking Bad vibe from this bunch. DG may have been a bit of a loner socially but he must have had several business associates. If he was manufacturing meth he would have been in close contact with dealers, and chemical suppliers and other types of riff raff.

Interestingly enough AL was also involved in the 'chemical' business in one form or another.

I mean seriously....how many of you have seen Breaking Bad?

BBM - *Raises hand*

 

[deugirtni]

To my knowledge, LE has never referred to DG as a 'suspect', but rather, only as a POI. (BBM below)

I had always believed that in Canada LE cannot hold anyone longer than 24 hours for questioning without laying charges.

Quote Originally Posted by mrazda71 View Post
I'm in the UK and I know maybe our law system is different but ... if your LE had SO much on DG wouldn't they be holding him for questioning relating to the disappearance?

Well, I am in the US and I am not all that familiar with the law in Canada. But in the US, once a suspect stops talking, or gets a lawyer, there is very little that LE can do other than arrest the person. Once an arrest is made, they need to charge the crime in a court. In the US, frequently they will move quite slowly until they have all the evidence ready to go before an arrest. This is especially true when there is no body - you can try a case both in the US and in Canada and win without a body, but nobody says it is a sure thing, or easy. So it is preferable to wait until the body has been found. I believe that the fact LE is so openly calling DG a suspect, and having obtained warrants to search his property and continue searching, as well as having impounded his vehicle, means that they have brought a good amount of evidence to a judge to justify. It serves no one to release that evidence to the public, and I don't think they could have made it any clearer that they are still convinced that they have their man.

 

[Calgarygirl]

So DG hasn't left the Remand Centre Yet. I'am wondering if he was depending on his mom and dad for everything. Now it makes me wonder what his parents suspect that he has done in this crime. Have the police told them a lot of what evidence they have found or do they just know that their son is involved.

I would think that they would give him $750.00 if he didn't have it. And you would think that they would have put him up in a safe place where media and public couldn't get to him, if they wanted to help him. That says a lot. I believe his family know a lot more about his character and state of mind and what he is capable of. Which kind of scares me.

If he was scared to be out in the public and staying at a homeless shelter why would he even ask for bail. I think every move this man makes is calculated on his part. Even down to the part that he moves in close to the monitor and the judge asks him if he has a hard time hearing, and he says no that he can't see. I think he wanted it to seem like he has bad eye sight and couldn't see, so how could he possibly have done this crime at night.

Anyway if/when he finally get his bail I'am sure that LE will have "Undercover Homeless" people at the mustard seed seeing if they can find anything out as I'am sure they already had some Undercover prisoners with him as well.

I just hope that if he does get out of jail and with him being described as a loner and mental health issues that they watch him. That he doesn't get any firearms and a vehicle while the police and RCMP are at the farm. I would not want a repeat of the Mayerthorpe, Alberta Tragedy from 9yrs ago.

IMO

I find it very interesting as well that he has not left the Remand Centre. I have a question about bail: I assume that DG has more than $750 to his name, but does the bail have to be paid by someone else? Or, is there just no way that when you are in Remand that you would have access to any method of withdrawing money? So, if no one steps forward to provide him the $750 he is stuck there? Seems like he has no family or friends that want to come within any distance of him, JMO.

 

[skibaboo]

Just thinking of the chemical angle... I was thinking if they had found the truck there would more than likely be incriminating evidence... then I was thinking what if it was cleaned with chemicals and they -think- there is evidence but the DNA was stripped off from chemicals so they can't actually say he did it or not.

The kind of chemicals that one may have good knowledge of, from say working with them over a period of time, and possibly used to help keep said truck in such 'mint' condition for over 20 years? JMO

(just thinking out loud, haven't a clue myself)

 

[cathdawg]

Where is the news, I wonder where LE is at this time back at the G's property?

 

[bakerlady]

The kind of chemicals that one may have good knowledge of, from say working with them over a period of time, and possibly used to help keep said truck in such 'mint' condition for over 20 years? JMO

I'm lost here. What chemicals help keep a truck nice? I thought he just made a few trips to the body shop and was trying to keep his truck in good condition. It's practically an antique. That is not unheard of at all. Heck I have a neighbor with an old 89 Honda Civic in mint condition. He is obsessed with that car and washes and waxes it on the weekends.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This worries me a bit that LE are returning to the Liknes home to search again&#8230;Makes me think they aren't finding anything on DG's property and are going back to the beginning or something. I also read on MSM (will try to find link also) that police are sure to make clear this isn't an abduction, but a missing persons case, interesting also&#8230;.
http://medicinehatnews.com/news/pro...me-of-missing-grandparents-as-part-of-search/