Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

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Hello, new person here. Not sure if this belongs in this forum but was looking for potential sites that these folks could have been taken.

Coincidentally an interface forest fire was 650 Ha west of Grand Prairie AB on July 8th. Cause was listed as lightning - Probably not related but still a fact: http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/OneFire.asp?ID=493 - http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=2146

Also, looked into Winter Petroleum a bit and they had gas properties in a 2011 article between Rainbow Lake and High Level AB. Seems awfully far for a murderer to drive to dispose of bodies but plausable.

Also, looked into Paramount petroleum and found this PDF that shows their properties on Page 4: http://www.paramountres.com/upload/...rces-ltd-corporate-presentation-june-2014.pdf

I sincerely hope the CPD can find these individuals and that the public and private companies perform a thorough search of anywhere on their property for them.


Welcome to Websleuths! :wagon::welcome4:
 
Just heard the news and this is so sad. I was holding on to hope they would be found.
 
Assuming that he didn't do haircut for himself, maybe the barber could recall when he went for the last haircut, the day and how he looked or behaved. That may be of some use in establishing part of the timeline.
 
[modsnip]


Taken out of context, the question was posed what besides blood could have caused drag marks...
I wasn't singling you out, just that the public is so sure that they have a right to know more. I don't believe we do have a right, although we can speculate on this public forum.
BBM - I totally agree with you. Now that an arrest has been made and charges laid, we are going to be receiving even less information between now and the trial and people will have to accept that.
 
If I were family, I would expect LE to release as little to the public as possible, so there is not the slightest chance to derail the conviction. We are all curious, and many of us have spent hours here in this 'think tank' since June 30. [modsnip]

I agree with you Krystine. As much as we - Joe public - have a very natural curiosity, we need to be mindful of the fact that releasing certain information will compromise the trial. It would also cause immeasurable pain to the loved ones who have endured and will still have to endure intolerable grief when the trial commences. Moo
 
Douglas Garland an intelligent man with mental issues, criminal past:records

'The judge described Garland as an intelligent but troubled man who “acknowledged that he made some not very well thought out decisions.”'

It's possible that by not very well thought out DG meant careless and leading to him being caught.

Using the distinctive green pickup truck is not a very well thought out decision, IMO.
 
I have to disagree here.

LE most definitely needs our help.

JMO
Yeah, from the public in Calgary, but from an out-of-country crime forum, not so much. I'm sure they are putting all available resources towards this case and don't need people on a crime forum to do any 'sleuthing' for them. They are seasoned professionals and know what is at stake here. JMO
 
Just a thought. Perhaps he did only murder one person and LE has charged him with 3 murders to smoke him out? Yes wishful thinking but it could be a tactic.....
 
In other words, it isn't a random psychotic episode (or even a preplanned mass murder in a theatre) but a calculated killing done with a certain level of rational thought. I see it as being difficult to argue mental defect. But that's just IMO only.

At this point, all any of us have is opinion. But you are probably correct, based on what we have heard so far. There is no "insanity" defense in Canada; it has been replaced by the "not criminally responsible" defence, but the bar for having a judge make that ruling is quite high. "Mental defect" is not a criterion. Most people with mental illnesses are not violent, do not qualify for a "NCR" designation, and in fact are more likely to be victims than offenders (many homeless and street people are ones with mental illnesses).

People who would be in the running for a NCR designation:
-- individuals with very low cognitive ability (what we used to call moderate to severe mental retardation). They lack the ability to understand either the law, the nature of their actions, or why something is wrong. They are also incapable of planning a crime! Having mild cognitive disability (AKA mental retardation) does not get one off the hook. People who can talk, read, hold a job, have enough cognitive ability to be held accountable for their actions.
-- individuals with psychotic illnesses -- schizophenia being the best-known. Although medications can control this for most patients, untreated schizophrenia may produce violent hallucinations, disorientation, delusions and so on, and the person may lash out at what appears to be random. Such people are dangerous, but they cannot control what they do and often are not even aware of it. NCR applies here.
-- some types of brain damage or neurological conditions can make a person NCR. Autism can be one such (it is a spectrum disorder, but at the lower-functioning end are individuals who lack communication skills (may not be able to speak), have limited understanding of their surroundings, and may indeed be violent. Some of them end up in jails where the staff have no idea how to deal with them. As we have more and more people with autism, there needs to be some planning how to address those who cannot care for themselves and who belong in some kind of facility. Fetal Alchohol Syndrome also causes permanent brain damage (brain looks like Swiss cheese, with huge holes in the grey matter), and some affected individuals also could meet NCR criteria for being unable either to recognize that they are doing something wrong or the ability to regulate themselves.
--traumatic brain injury can cause sufficient impairment that an individual may no longer be able to control himself or understand that his actions are wrong or dangerous. Usually TBI does cause permanent personality changes but not necessarily ones making a person violent.

ADHD, anxiety disorders, depression, run-of-the-mill "mental defects" don't count. We have heard nothing of psychosis in this case, and the accused certainly is not intellectually disabled.

FYI, the Criminal Code has been amended to place more restrictions on those declared NCR (I believe the changes go into effect soon if they have not already), but the real problem is the lack of any organized plan to address the identified failings in the system that lead to violent psychotic individuals (such as the man in the bus beheading case) being at large and untreated.

Here are two items from the Toronto Star with more information:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...y_responsible_some_common_misconceptions.html
and
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...lly_responsible_law_misses_point_critics.html

CBC's "Doc Zone" presented a nuanced documentary on the topic, titled (surprise!) "Not Criminally Responsible." It shows the offender, victim and other viewpoints with sensitivity and insight. The dilemma is real and no easy solutions are in sight.

You can view it here if interested:
http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/not-criminally-responsible

(Apparently you can only view it from within Canada)
 
I have been pretty much obsessed with this case... it hits pretty close to home... literally (I live 45 minutes from the farm of DG) and I myself have a 5 year old son. With that said, I heard early yesterday morning in two different reports that DG was asked to leave his hotel around 1:30am in one report and then the suspect (his name had not yet been released) was arrested close to the Garland farm in Airdrie in the early morning hours. I will have to go back and try to find which articles I had read this on to post the links... It very well could of been that he did lead them to something to make them conclude that he was their man and that the three were deceased.
 
Hello, new person here. Not sure if this belongs in this forum but was looking for potential sites that these folks could have been taken.

Coincidentally an interface forest fire was 650 Ha west of Grand Prairie AB on July 8th. Cause was listed as lightning - Probably not related but still a fact: http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/OneFire.asp?ID=493 - http://bcwildfire.com/hprScripts/WildfireNews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=2146

Also, looked into Winter Petroleum a bit and they had gas properties in a 2011 article between Rainbow Lake and High Level AB. Seems awfully far for a murderer to drive to dispose of bodies but plausable.

Also, looked into Paramount petroleum and found this PDF that shows their properties on Page 4: http://www.paramountres.com/upload/...rces-ltd-corporate-presentation-june-2014.pdf

I sincerely hope the CPD can find these individuals and that the public and private companies perform a thorough search of anywhere on their property for them.

Hi, although nothing can be excluded or overlooked in this case, I believe that Grand Prairie or High Level/Rainbow Lake would be a little bit of a stretch. If he tried to go so far (8 or more hours drive from Airdrie), he would have to take gas somewhere, somebody would likely see or recognize him. There are not that many possible routes to GP or HL, there is just one road from HL to RL. Any pipeline job, oil&gas site etc. with an open excavation near Calgary would do the trick. Forested areas west and near Sundre, Rocky Mountain House etc. are much closer and he could drive back and forth without filling the truck. I have driven all these routes a lot of times but IMOO
 
I have a feeling he drove for at least an hour to get rid of the bodies. Airdrie is about 35 minutes north of the initial crime scene. North is the most common direction murders move to dump bodies or to kill an abducted victim, in my opinion. I think LE should look North of Airdrie, another 30 minutes north of his family home. JMO
 
Probably a couple of years.

More than likely he will need to present his plea over the coming weeks and a trial date should be set around that same time, which usually is months from that point - depending on how congested the court system is.
 
How long will it be before the trial begins?

It will be months (probably won't start until 2015.) Step one will be an assessment to determine if the suspect is fit to stand trial. I believe these assessments could be 30 to 90 days long. During this time (should be ongoing right now) the Crown will the putting together their case and evidence against the suspect. Once they have put together their case the defense will review an evidence disclosure (this could take many weeks depending on the amount of evidence that is present.) A jury may need to be selected which likely will not be an easy task in a case like this. Jury selection could involve weeks of interviewing.

As an example in April, 5 students were murdered in Calgary at a party. The accused underwent a 30 day assessment and was deemed fit to go to trial. In late May the accused was in court. The next court date is scheduled for next week during which it is anticipated that a preliminary hearing date will be set. Basically, this has been 3 months since the incident and arrest and the matter is not even scheduled for court yet.
 
I have been pretty much obsessed with this case... it hits pretty close to home... literally (I live 45 minutes from the farm of DG) and I myself have a 5 year old son. With that said, I heard early yesterday morning in two different reports that DG was asked to leave his hotel around 1:30am in one report and then the suspect (his name had not yet been released) was arrested close to the Garland farm in Airdrie in the early morning hours. I will have to go back and try to find which articles I had read this on to post the links... It very well could of been that he did lead them to something to make them conclude that he was their man and that the three were deceased.

The decision to lay charges was made on Sunday (per press conference with police chief). On Sunday evening, the suspect was arrested near his home at 1:30AM. The decision was made prior to his trek to his acreage.
 
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