Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[Wondergirl]

I keep thinking about the poster who was on the scene at the farm, the first day they were searching. Who overheard a neighbour saying they saw garbage burning on the Garland farm in the middle of the night, and the greenhouse light on.... If this is true, it is even more disturbing now.

That's not a rumour, I posted an article in the paper with a quote indicating Garlands greenhouse lights were on in the middle of the night on Tuesday, July 1 and he was seen burning "garbage" all day on the 2nd.

IMO, this info is critical to the timeline, and should not be forgotten.

As a reminder for all our American sleuthers, July 1st was our Canada Day, a National Holiday, with most things closed. Not just a "regular" Tuesday.

 

[bcsoda]

Do you see shame ? I don't . I see an angry, demented sociopath who is pissed that he is being led around and near reporters and is barely containing himself. His eyes are not down in shame they are looking up / ahead while his head is down and I don't get the feeling it's to see where he is going. It's defiance I see and rage in those eyes. Buy that's just me .

Honestly, when I watch the video I feel like he just looks annoyed by the reporter that's in his face asking him questions. Not that I'm trying to defend him, but I think it's hard to read who a person is by picture or a 10 second video. Like the people who were saying that JO didn't seem emotional enough for the situation - we really have no idea.

 

[DaisyBlantyre]

Personally I'm still reeling from the last 24 hours or so. It's been a rough 6 months here in Calgary with way too many multiple murders. Can't wrap my mind around this latest one's outcome and part of me still refuse's to believe that Nathan has been killed. My heart is with the families.

I hope LE can piece together Douglas Garland's whereabouts on the days before he became a suspect. Seeing as AL's truck was impounded, Douglas Garland may have used that vehicle instead of his own to remove the bodies. It had a larger cab on it if I remember correctly and the L's and Nathan may never have been in DG's actual truck. If so, I hope they can link DG to AL's truck.


I just can't be hard on the sketch artists. I think they got the feel of Douglas Garland's evil face, what we were lacking from LE/media is his height and weight to go along with those sketches. I was shocked last night when I saw how tall and physically fit he is.

Re: the t-shirt Douglas Garland was wearing.

I haven't read since late last night so apologies if I'm duplicating someone else's post, but oil and gas company logo t-shirts and jackets are a dime a dozen in this town. We regularly drop off a stack to charity that my spouse accumulates from his employer, clients and vendors. A few days after doing one charity drop off we saw a perp being taken down by police on the evening news wearing what we were sure was my spouse's former jacket.

 

[bcsoda]

I'm sure they will be doing a very thorough psychological assessment ... I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up at the Lougheed sooner rather than later. LE will surely want to have that info.

They'll send him to the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychology Centre for psychological assessment, not Peter Lougheed. http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/services.asp?pid=saf&rid=1025214

 

[PrincessButtercup]

They'll send him to the Southern Alberta Forensic Psychology Centre for psychological assessment, not Peter Lougheed. http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/services.asp?pid=saf&rid=1025214

Yes, that is located at the Lougheed.

 

[BabaJ]

I came across this site the other day, but didn't post it. Depending on time of day, it may be hard for anyone, including LE to determine if the suspect's truck travelled on any of these routes and was captured on camera. One can only hope.

http://www.amaroadreports.ca/highways/2

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportatio...ures-and-detours/Calgary-Traffic-Cameras.aspx

 

[Menci]

Douglas Garland an intelligent man with mental issues, criminal past:records

'The judge described Garland as an intelligent but troubled man who “acknowledged that he made some not very well thought out decisions.”'

It's possible that by not very well thought out DG meant careless and leading to him being caught.

Using the distinctive green pickup truck is not a very well thought out decision, IMO.

IMO the green truck would be as close to a smoking gun as possible in this case, and if it weren't for the CCTV cameras that captured him/the green truck in the area of the Liknes home more than once. That green truck that we talked about so much on here, helped LE zero in on DG. No cameras like that where I live, and I don't want to think about it too much, but how different it might be for LE, the family, and us, if we didn't have that piece of information. We certainly don't know what, if any, evidence was found by forensics checking that truck, but that was the spark that got things moving forward IMO. And so, yes, not a well thought out decision at all by DG - thank goodness for that.

 

[ResearchQuest]

I have a list of locations I think would prove helpful to police. How can I get it to them? Anyone have contact info bbesiders 911, Crimestoppers etc? Such as email address??

homicidetips@calgarypolice.ca

As per: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...than-o-brien-kathy-and-alvin-liknes-1.2707268

 

[Menci]

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportatio...ures-and-detours/Calgary-Traffic-Cameras.aspx

Wow - wonderful - I was only looking for cameras around Airdrie, but obviously he may have travelled within the city as well!

 

[bcsoda]

Yes, that is located at the Lougheed.

Not trying to be argumentative, but it's not. It's up by the Remand Centre. https://www.google.ca/maps/place/So...2!3m1!1s0x5371684f955b0bfd:0xbe6b8ae083dcea1b

 

[ResearchQuest]

I came across this site the other day, but didn't post it. Depending on time of day, it may be hard for anyone, including LE to determine if the suspect's truck travelled on any of these routes and was captured on camera. One can only hope.

http://www.amaroadreports.ca/highways/2

I wonder if they save the old images? You'd think they'd be digitally stored somehow.

 

[Krystine]

May be useful, but, the truck was photographed at some point in daylight

Jmo

The lights were on in the front hallway and I believe the overhead kitchen light of the Likeness home in one of the very first police clips.
In most neighbourhoods there are light sleepers, and lights on in the middle of the night would have gotten someone's attention, at least on my street. The sleuth in me would have kept a watch for a while to see if something was going on.

I also find it interesting that the killer would risk dragging the deceased to the front of the home, when the back alley with the other garages offering cover, and the park right in back, would have been 'safer'.
A light on in the twilight, or early morning hours is less likely to cause suspicion.

 

[roseofsharon]

I read this in the Toronto Sun this morning? Apologies if this has already been posted. I'm confused, does anyone know what this means?

"There (were) three people missing on Day 1," he said.

"We have to assume ... that someone, somewhere, was keeping one of those people alive ............ (more to read in link)

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/1...calgary-familys-disappearance-back-in-custody

 

[ResearchQuest]

Two mothers organize search party to look for O’Brien and Liknes bodies

http://www.660news.com/2014/07/15/t...h-party-to-look-for-obrien-and-liknes-bodies/

 

[palisadesk]

2 good books on psychopaths/sociopaths: Without Conscience by Robert D. Hare and The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson

Thanks

Great summary, and Hare's book is quite readable, not like a lot of academic-type books. Dr. Hare is one of the world's pre-eminent experts on psychopathy.(Put his name into YouTube and some good short videos will come up. He is a thoughtful as well as very knowledgeable person)

I would quibble with you only on your interpretation of the stats -- yes, the diagnosis is rare, but psychopathic people are not. 5% is 1 out of every 20 people -- that means 1 in every elementary school classroom, several in every university course, dozens in many workplaces, 1 or more in every extended family.....

Hare estimates that 5% may meet diagnostic criteria, while another 5% are "on the spectrum" of psychopathy and exhibit many of the traits. Besides lack of empathy, their defining characteristic is having absolutely no internalized moral values. Everything is ME,ME, ME. Other people are merely players in their drama, not beings with an independent destiny and rights and dreams.

Psychopaths rarely turn to crime (or at least to violent crime) precisely because they are so intensely self-involved and looking out for number 1 -- they avoid activities that could limit their freedom and autonomy (that includes most street crime, gang and gun crime, murder, etc. though Enron and various financial schemes were almost certainly brought about by psychopaths who were usually successful at distancing themselves from the dirty work and its consequences). Psychopaths like Bernardo, Ted Bundy, and Clifford Olson are exceptions.

Chances are, some posters here are married to a psychopath, work for one, have one in the extended family, or in the neighbourhood. One in 20.

Hare's book gives some options and suggestions how to deal with such people; counter-intuitively, treatment and therapy makes these people worse. They learn the jargon of empathy and caring but simply use it to manipulate others even more successfully. They can even learn to fake empathy. As Hare says, they know the notes, but not the music.

Instead of violence, these psychopaths wreak interpersonal havoc and emotional disaster wherever they go. I had a psychopathic boss a few years ago and boy was I glad I had read Hare. See also a book entitled "Snakes in Suits" about psychopaths in the workplace.

 

[Menci]

I read this in the Toronto Sun this morning? Apologies if this has already been posted. I'm confused, does anyone know what this means?

"There (were) three people missing on Day 1," he said.

"We have to assume ... that someone, somewhere, was keeping one of those people alive ............ (more to read in link)

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/1...calgary-familys-disappearance-back-in-custody

I took this to mean there was more hope in the very beginning; that at least one (not saying all three because - my read into this is because of the evidence pointing towards a violent incident, where they probably had high suspicions that someone they deemed would be in medical distress, could have succumbed) of the three was alive, so it was still considered a missing persons investigation, and not a homicide, until slowly, as more and more evidence was compiled and analyzed, they could no longer hold onto that glimmer of hope as they called it, as they felt more than confident they could unequivocally say all three are deceased.

 

[dairydog]

I know that we've heard that DG's parents may have gone camping but was this ever verified and if so when did they leave? I wonder if they were still at home on the farm when this horrible crime was evolving. If they were at the farm, I don't think that DG would have brought the bodies there. It would be too risky. Even if they were away there was always the risk that they could return unexpectedly. It's JMHO that these poor souls were killed that fateful night or in the wee hours of the morning. I can't see his rationale for keeping them alive. I also think that LE found evidence at the farm but I have to wonder if they found any evidence of remains. If that were the case, why are they asking property owners to do a check of their grounds unless it's for evidence other than remains. What an unbelievable nightmare. We can only hope that someone, somewhere finds the remains.

 

[palisadesk]

How long will it be before the trial begins?

It is impossible to be absolutely certain, but something under two years is probably a reasonable expectation.

A good parallel case, in terms both of brutality, stupidity and shameless psychopathy, was the Richardson family murders in Medicine Hat in 2006, where a couple in their 30's and their 8-year-old son were savagely murdered by their 12-year-old daughter and her 23-year-old boyfriend (who was cognitively delayed and had FAS, so actually about the same "age" as she was).

The case was horrific and got passions aroused, as this one does, for many of the same reasons. So needless. So many "if only's."

But, with all that, the case went to trial in two parts (the accused were tried separately). The girl was tried and sentenced about 18 months after her arrest, the young man a year later. They were tried in Calgary instead of Medicine Hat (and I think it likely that this case will be tried in another venue as well. It is a standard procedure in such cases, and forestalls appeals based on media bias or jury bias or whatever).

Tori Stafford's case took almost 3 years from the crime to the conviction of the second accused, but some complications specific to that case delayed matters by several months. Also, Ontario seems to move a bit slower than Alberta.

I would expect to see this go to trial in 2016; a preliminary hearing may be held much sooner, although defense may choose to waive the right to have one.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Yes, that is located at the Lougheed.

No, Forensic Psych was moved to Remand Center several years ago....in 2005 actually:

"In June 2005, inpatient forensic services moved from the Peter Lougheed Centre to the new Southern Alberta Forensic Psychiatry Centre in northwest Calgary;"

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~psyctree/resident.htm

 

[roseofsharon]

It is impossible to be absolutely certain, but something under two years is probably a reasonable expectation.

A good parallel case, in terms both of brutality, stupidity and shameless psychopathy, was the Richardson family murders in Medicine Hat in 2006, where a couple in their 30's and their 8-year-old son were savagely murdered by their 12-year-old daughter and her 23-year-old boyfriend (who was cognitively delayed and had FAS, so actually about the same "age" as she was).

The case was horrific and got passions aroused, as this one does, for many of the same reasons. So needless. So many "if only's."

But, with all that, the case went to trial in two parts (the accused were tried separately). The girl was tried and sentenced about 18 months after her arrest, the young man a year later. They were tried in Calgary instead of Medicine Hat (and I think it likely that this case will be tried in another venue as well. It is a standard procedure in such cases, and forestalls appeals based on media bias or jury bias or whatever).

Tori Stafford's case took almost 3 years from the crime to the conviction of the second accused, but some complications specific to that case delayed matters by several months. Also, Ontario seems to move a bit slower than Alberta.

I would expect to see this go to trial in 2016; a preliminary hearing may be held much sooner, although defense may choose to waive the right to have one.

First, he will undergo a psychiatric assessment to see if he is "fit" to stand trial. I wonder how long that will take?

http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mohltc/ppa...issions_B.aspx?openMenu=smenu_CriminalCodeAdm