Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[LayzeeDayzee]

There was a balloon release at 8pm tonight. Not sure if it was just in my town or in Calgary as well.
If I had some balloons, I would have participated...

I can completely understand the sentiment and people feeling compelled to show their support, but sending off a few thousands balloons into the atmosphere isn't exactly environmentally conscious, IMO. The poor O'Brien and Liknes families just need privacy, time to process everything, the support of people close to them, time to grieve in their own way for however long it takes. Airdrie is having a large green balloon release (it was at 8pm) and I guess doing this makes outsiders feel better but does this really help the family? I personally don't think so. IMO.

 

[ilovepierre]

Not sure if this can be posted...mods delete if not allowed

FB page with pictures of the balloon release in and around Calgary
https://www.facebook.com/events/256...t_id=257633074446362&notif_t=event_mall_reply

 

[Cherchri]

Since the Websleuths community has already been mentioned once in the local news, perhaps local people could organize a balloon release in Stanley Park and get it in the news twice. What is a suitable day and who local would do that? How can that tie in to butterflies?

Twice actually. I was interviewed live by CBC on the morning show yesterday and was one of the 3 quoted in the Herald article alongside you Otto. Both my interviewers follow us quite closely. But back to what you suggest - count me in and I will give some thought to butterflies and a suitable day. All calgarian websleuths who want in, please raise your hand.

 

[ilovepierre]

I can completely understand the sentiment and people feeling compelled to show their support, but sending off a few thousands balloons into the atmosphere isn't exactly environmentally conscious, IMO. The poor O'Brien and Liknes families just need privacy, time to process everything, the support of people close to them, time to grieve in their own way for however long it takes. Airdrie is having a large green balloon release (it was at 8pm) and I guess doing this makes outsiders feel better but does this really help the family? I personally don't think so. IMO.

The balloon release is a way for communities to feel like they are doing something. It's a way to show support.
You see them a lot in cases like this.

 

[ElleElle]

Where is a link indicating they've met w/ RCMP? I've only read that one of them spoke w/ CPS Chief Hanson who didn't endorse the civilian search but also stated he couldn't stop them. My understanding is that this search is all lead and directed by civilian volunteers and no LE is involved.

"Police have yet to find the bodies of the victims, and are pleading with landowners in and around Airdrie, Atla., to search their properties and to call authorities should they find anything suspicious or out of the ordinary."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2014/07/20140714-131526.html

 

[otto]

Honestly I get the sense that he is all about himself and no amount of pressure to "do the right thing" is going to work because he probably feels he is in the right on all of this. I wish Mamma could get him to talk but I don't think so.

I think there's a deep seeded anger and we know that there are psychologic issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a sociopathic personality and those guys have no empathy and turn everything around so that it's everybody else's fault.

He would have to admit guilt in order for Momma, or anyone else, to get him to tell them where the bodies were and I don't think he's going to admit to anything.

If this man has held a grudge for seven years, he has probably thought of a thousand ways to get even, the latter of which would have included murder scenarios. The question is, when did he think he came across the most perfect, clever scenario where, if Nathan hadn't been there, it would appear that the couple that was planning on leaving the country left without a fuss and would be in touch later. Where is the perfect place to put the bodies of two people that no one would think were missing until it was too late?

Perhaps, if Nathan hadn't been there, this would have been the perfect murder; a disappearance that coincided with an intent to leave the country ... disappear ... no one the wiser for months.

 

[Wondergirl]

Retired LEO expert interviewed by CBC regarding the murder charges against Garland.

If you don't watch another video, you have to watch this one. Top notch

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2473927175/

 

[otto]

Twice actually. I was interviewed live by CBC on the morning show yesterday and was one of the 3 quoted in the Herald article alongside you Otto. Both my interviewers follow us quite closely. But back to what you suggest - count me in and I will give some thought to butterflies and a suitable day. All calgarian websleuths who want in, please raise your hand.

Fantastic! What about the bottom of the trail at the end of the 38A Avenue block on the Parkhill side of Stanley Park?

Is the green balloon release also happening tomorrow evening? A whole bunch of balloons released over the Elbow river in Stanley Park near would be fantastic if the sun was still up ... reflections in the water ... lanterns would be better ... anyone know how to do that on short notice?

Nathan must have played there as a younger child.

 

[Cherchri]

Honestly I get the sense that he is all about himself and no amount of pressure to "do the right thing" is going to work because he probably feels he is in the right on all of this. I wish Mamma could get him to talk but I don't think so.

I think there's a deep seeded anger and we know that there are psychologic issues. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a sociopathic personality and those guys have no empathy and turn everything around so that it's everybody else's fault.

He would have to admit guilt in order for Momma, or anyone else, to get him to tell them where the bodies were and I don't think he's going to admit to anything.

Teal grove does this mean you think he is insane? I am not convinced he has certifiable psychological issues ref. his parole documents when he was released after serving one sixth of his 39 month sentence. I agree he has no conscience and I feel certain he is sociopathic but that is an anti-social character disorder..... Love to know if you think there's any chance of an insanity plea?

 

[ResearchQuest]

If this man has held a grudge for seven years, he has probably thought of a thousand ways to get even, the latter of which would have included murder scenarios. The question is, when did he think he came across the most perfect, clever scenario where, if Nathan hadn't been there, it would appear that the couple that was planning on leaving the country left without a fuss and would be in touch later. Where is the perfect place to put the bodies of two people that no one would think were missing until it was too late?

Perhaps, if Nathan hadn't been there, this would have been the perfect murder; a disappearance that coincided with an intent to leave the country ... disappear ... no one the wiser for months.

Yes, it could be that he thought they were leaving the country, and they wouldn't be missed for ages.

 

[Ms.elle]

When I was in law school I learned that statistically in North America, once an accused person is charged with a crime there is a 75% chance that they will be convicted if the case goes to a jury.

This is regardless of the evidence or the strength of the prosecution's case and is instead because the collective intelligence of the jury is on par with the intelligence of the average fifth grader and juries have a habit of putting a disproportionate amount of faith into police evidence simply because it's police evidence.

The average person considers finger print evidence to be gospel but in reality, fingerprint evidence is LESS reliably accurate than a polygraph test.

I've done a lot of work with the innocence project and can tell you there have actually been cases where someone has been sitting on death row for murder only for the victim to turn up alive and well and prosecutors still fight to maintain their conviction.

The "justice" system is terribly flawed on both sides of the spectrum. Guilty people are sometimes set free AND innocent people sometimes rot their lives away in jail.

What happened to Nathan and his grandparents is reprehensible and I sincerely hope that whoever is responsible for their fate is punished as harshly as the law will allow.

I am really bothered that so many of you have already decided that Douglas Garland is indisputably guilty and are on a virtual witch hunt for other cases to tie him to when not only has there been no trial but we have no idea what the evidence may be that caused police to decide to arrest him in the first place.

These are serious charges and if it does turn out he is wrongly accused, I doubt he will ever bunch back from this experience. I see someone who has made a lot of mistakes and I would argue largely wasted his life. Whether those mistakes include killing 3 innocent people, I don't know.

It's one thing to toss around theories and try to interpret and make sense of whatever information can be uncovered but even if Douglas Garland is guilty of this heinous crime, I think this rush to judgement is absolutely shameful and incredibly insensitive to the O'Brien and Liknes family given how horribly they must be grieving by the loss of Nathan, Kathy and Alvin. And, how they are likely struggling to come to terms with the idea that the man accused of causing their grief is someone that is also a part of their family, someone that they've likely shared birthdays, holidays and other celebrations with.

 

[Menci]

Where is a link indicating they've met w/ RCMP? I've only read that one of them spoke w/ CPS Chief Hanson who didn't endorse the civilian search but also stated he couldn't stop them. My understanding is that this search is all lead and directed by civilian volunteers and no LE is involved.

I posted late yesterday - 11:33 p.m. - Post 231, I'll recopy and paste - but mod snipped some of it. That exact page no longer comes up though 404 error - no longer found. ("retired" RCMP, but who contacted local police and RCMP on behalf of the group, and below, BBM)

http://www.discoverairdrie.com/index...360&Itemid=176

"As the news of a missing persons case becoming a homicide investigation, people are taking to social media to express their feelings. There are many wishing they could do something to try and help the families of Nathan O'Brien, and Alvin and Kathy Liknes.

[modsnip]
A meeting is being held tonight at the Toad n Turtle at 7pm. Green says a retired RCMP officer is helping the group, providing them with maps, and had contacted Calgary City Police and local RCMP on behalf of the group.

[modsnip]

There is a facebook page the group has created specifically for this, called "Help us bring some closure to the O'Brien & Liknes Family.. SEARCH AIRDRIE"



- See more at: http://www.discoverairdrie.com/index....gaJ1aFxG.dpuf

 

[Ms.elle]

I think this will be a tough case to prosecute because the defence (in my opinion) will argue mental defect. The crown has to get around that. Garland is clever when it comes to the law (as we've seen in his previous legal problems). I wonder if part of using that defence will require that he reveal the locations of the bodies ... although he could argue that it's a complete blur and he doesn't know what he did. That would be problematic if it can be proven that he returned to the crime scene to clean up.

There is no legal application if mental disease or defect in this case. Mental disease or defect ONLY applies if the accused is not sufficiently same to distinguish right from wrong. Ie, they are hearing/seeing things, have the mental capacity of an extremely young child, etc.

Having a mental health issue is not the same with having cause for an insanity defense

 

[Cherchri]

Count me in please

Awesome!

 

[Tealgrove]

Teal grove does this mean you think he is insane? I am not convinced he has certifiable psychological issues ref. his parole documents when he was released after serving one sixth of his 39 month sentence. I agree he has no conscience and I feel certain he is sociopathic but that is an anti-social character disorder..... Love to know if you think there's any chance of an insanity plea?

Oh I don't think he is insane at all. I think he has issues and there is a mental instability however he is far from being insane.

Being a sociopath is not about being anti social, in fact lots of sociopaths are very social. They are usually very smart, narcisstic and everything is about them. They can be charming to a fault however they reek havoc with those around them and manipulate people beyond belief. They are cunning and they use people with no regard for anyone other than themselves.

For example, it's not DG's fault that he had to kill people...it's their fault because they did blah blah blah. In essence, it's the victim's fault. A sociopath does not take responsibility nor do they accept blame or fault. A sociopath will never say they are sorry. They have no conscience and think nothing of pitting one person against the other to meet their needs.

I have a family member who is a sociopath. You would love him. He's charming, sweet, and I love him dearly but boy oh boy look out.

I don't know if they will try for an insanity plea. I'm sure they'll try anything but I'm going to guess that they'll come up with a bunch of psychological stuff none of which will label him insane.

 

[Tealgrove]

If this man has held a grudge for seven years, he has probably thought of a thousand ways to get even, the latter of which would have included murder scenarios. The question is, when did he think he came across the most perfect, clever scenario where, if Nathan hadn't been there, it would appear that the couple that was planning on leaving the country left without a fuss and would be in touch later. Where is the perfect place to put the bodies of two people that no one would think were missing until it was too late?

Perhaps, if Nathan hadn't been there, this would have been the perfect murder; a disappearance that coincided with an intent to leave the country ... disappear ... no one the wiser for months.

Maybe the timing was co-incidental in that his parents where away as well. He had the farm to himself. Or...he suggested that his parents go on a little camping trip knowing that the estate sale was that weekend. Perfect timing and get the parents out of the way so that they don't know what he's up to. Premeditation! Wow...there is so much we don't know and my guess is that LE has so much information that it's going to take a lot of manpower to put all the pieces together.

 

[otto]

Retired LEO expert interviewed by CBC regarding the murder charges against Garland.

If you don't watch another video, you have to watch this one. Top notch

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/Calgary/ID/2473927175/

Very insightful analysis of all the possible angles in these murders ... thanks for the link ... and concur about listening to the interview.

 

[Wondergirl]

https://www.facebook.com/events/256969584512711/

 

[otto]

photo

I'm in awe of the photo

 

[Livvy]

The balloon release is a lovely gesture, however it does kill birds and is certainly not environmentally friendly. I volunteer at a wildlife rehabilitation centre here in central Alberta and have seen quite a few birds injured or dead from balloons, mainly ducks. I mentioned this with alternative ideas on the Facebook discussion page and was promptly banned. Not sure why?

There are other ways for the community to show their support. Flower petals down the river or a tree planting ceremony are two I can think of. Fair to say that this is Alberta and most people don't care about the environment and wildlife. Welcome to oil country!

I will be planting three trees to show my support for this grieving family.