Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

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Wow !! I have been reading for hours. Excellent sleuthing everyone. I have great respect for all your carefully thought out avenues of this whole mystery. All through this search, I note a strong sense of teamwork.
I can't imagine the suffering and fear these people went through.
 
ztzt said:
About what may have transpired at the L's house: I'm doubtful that DG went to AL's house to argue about some old dispute; it's also unlikely for a casual visit to be after 10pm.

So I now think the following would be a likely scenario:

A few days prior to the garage sale, DG may have contacted the L's to say he’s interested in a certain piece of furniture which either they had listed on Kijiji in the beginning or he knew about, and asked them to keep it for him to be picked up on Sunday night. (Either the L’s usually stayed late, or DG made up an excuse that he couldn't be there before, say, midnight.)
Such a prior contact, if existed, may be verifiable by phone or email record.

So Sunday night DG drove the green pickup truck to the L's house late at night when he believed any other family members should have left. (A pickup truck seems to be just right for carrying furniture.)

Upon arrival, DG asked for AL’s help to carry the furniture with him to his truck--AL should have no reason to refuse--while KL stayed in the house. Nathan may be in the house or could be outside watching them or even helping in small ways (recall he enthusiastically helped his grandma during the sale).

While loading the furniture onto the truck, DG somehow got AL on the truck. Upon completion of the loading, DG killed AL (or rendered him unconscious) in some silent way. He then went back to the house and killed KL after a violent struggle. KL must not have been aware of what went wrong outside in time to make any phone call.

DG may have killed Nathan near or on the truck immediately after killing/subduing AL, or may have taken him alive in the truck with gagged mouth, or knocked him unconscious, and killed him later, on the truck or upon returning to his farm (scary thinking). After all, an 5 year old would not be any physical threat as long as his mouth was gagged. Small chance could be he meant to knock Nathan unconscious only before going back to the house for KL, but used too much force causing him to die.

The above scenario would explain why DG drove a pickup truck, and why the Amber Alert said “Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather”, if that's based on only KL’s blood being discovered in the house.
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This would in fact explain why he would actually be in the front if the house, which doesn't make any sense in terms of it being a discrete location for attack. If he attempted to use a ligature there may have been a violent, but mostly silent struggle at the side of the house... Possibally during the struggle AL was injured on something in the garage or side walkway. I always thought it didn't make sense for there to be such a mess on that side walkway if it was premeditated.

Also a friendly greeting from AL or KL (because he was there to pick up item) would have diverted any suspicion from neighbours, should anyone have actually seen the interaction.
 
ztzt said:
About what may have transpired at the L's house: I'm doubtful that DG went to AL's house to argue about some old dispute; it's also unlikely for a casual visit to be after 10pm.

So I now think the following would be a likely scenario:

A few days prior to the garage sale, DG may have contacted the L's to say he’s interested in a certain piece of furniture which either they had listed on Kijiji in the beginning or he knew about, and asked them to keep it for him to be picked up on Sunday night. (Either the L’s usually stayed late, or DG made up an excuse that he couldn't be there before, say, midnight.)
Such a prior contact, if existed, may be verifiable by phone or email record.

So Sunday night DG drove the green pickup truck to the L's house late at night when he believed any other family members should have left. (A pickup truck seems to be just right for carrying furniture.)

Upon arrival, DG asked for AL’s help to carry the furniture with him to his truck--AL should have no reason to refuse--while KL stayed in the house. Nathan may be in the house or could be outside watching them or even helping in small ways (recall he enthusiastically helped his grandma during the sale).

While loading the furniture onto the truck, DG somehow got AL on the truck. Upon completion of the loading, DG killed AL (or rendered him unconscious) in some silent way. He then went back to the house and killed KL after a violent struggle. KL must not have been aware of what went wrong outside in time to make any phone call.

DG may have killed Nathan near or on the truck immediately after killing/subduing AL, or may have taken him alive in the truck with gagged mouth, or knocked him unconscious, and killed him later, on the truck or upon returning to his farm (scary thinking). After all, a 5 year old would not be any physical threat as long as his mouth was gagged. Small chance could be he meant to knock Nathan unconscious only before going back to the house for KL, but used too much force causing him to die.

The above scenario would explain why DG drove a pickup truck, and why the Amber Alert said “Nathan may be in the company of his grandfather”, if that's based on only KL’s blood being discovered in the house.
Click to expand...

if he made emphetamines I'm sure he knew how to make powerful sedatives, to be either administered in liquid, by cloth or by needle. AL and DG could have met in the Livingroom where DG drugged him. KL and NO might have been in bed and KL called out by DG where she had an altercation then drugged. Then NO drugged with ease.
 
ztzt said:
"While Hanson wouldn't go into the circumstances of Garland's arrest, Garland was bound by a court-ordered curfew and likely under police surveillance at the time. During the chief's statement to the media, Hanson referred to "covert assets" that assisted in the police investigation."

Most likely the "covert assets" referred to some hotel staffs. :)
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I have wondered if he was about to "disappear" as he did before and that is why he was arrested at 1:30 AM, away from his hotel.
 
I'm sure he would have known how to skim codeine from common Tylenol, and easily enough to sedate AL.
 
Cattools said:
I have wondered if he was about to "disappear" as he did before and that is why he was arrested at 1:30 AM, away from his hotel.
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The report was that DG was asked to leave the premise (hotel) by a hotel staff.
 
Just thinking back ...IIRC...was there not an 'incident' at the hotel where he left or was asked *can't remember which* to leave? I don't know if that was ever verified or not....

If so...does anyone have a link that has the story about what happened there ...? I know he was picked up 130am *after his curfew btw* near his parents acreage...so I'm curious if he was asked to leave...or if he just...up and left....rather daring ...you would think he would realize he'd be breaking his bail conditions....why risk that unless it was crucial or he was kicked out....? JMOO
 
I wonder how long AL and DG knew each other? Is it a recent acquaintance, or does it go back years?
 
a
stan laurel said:
More reason to check the septic tank and/or pipes that are capped for inspection purposes along the lines after the digester.
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Cadaver dogs - Some dogs are trained in detecting the odor of decomposing bodies. Dogs' noses are so sensitive that they are even capable of detecting bodies that are under running water[16] Pioneering work was done by Dr. Debra Komar (University of Alberta) in Association with the RCMP Civilian Search Dog Association[17] in this area. The result was the development of training techniques that resulted in near 100% accuracy rates.[18] Her research has been published in the Journal of Forensic Anthropology.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#Specialized_police_dogs

What was the dog's name, Sophie? She was likely useful in detecting remains that may have been spread over an area, as well as in the slough. I think Chief Hansen wouldn't ask people to look for bodies if LE believed that there wasn't anything that ordinary people would identify as a body, to be found. As they say, JMO.

But I have to say Stan, I didn't really understand your post. I'm just a city girl...
 
Cattools said:
Cadaver dogs - Some dogs are trained in detecting the odor of decomposing bodies. Dogs' noses are so sensitive that they are even capable of detecting bodies that are under running water[16] Pioneering work was done by Dr. Debra Komar (University of Alberta) in Association with the RCMP Civilian Search Dog Association[17] in this area. The result was the development of training techniques that resulted in near 100% accuracy rates.[18] Her research has been published in the Journal of Forensic Anthropology.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_dog#Specialized_police_dogs

What was the dog's name, Sophie? She was likely useful in detecting remains that may have been spread over an area, as well as in the slough. I think Chief Hansen wouldn't ask people to look for bodies if LE believed that there wasn't anything that ordinary people would identify as a body, to be found. As they say, JMO.
Click to expand...

liquefied bodies in the fecal mix of a septic tank too?
 
Can cadaver dogs detect how many living persons had been at an area previously?
 
It's very scary to think that without that security camera on the street, DG would have gotten away with this horrific crime.

IIRC, the picture of the truck was released on July 4. Unless, DG had another vehicle he could use, the release of this photo, must have kept him at the farm.

I also agree with the poster who said DG probably didn't drive too far after the crime, due to LE on the highways.

For this reason, hopefully the victims will be close to the farm.

The genius wasn't as smart as he thought he was.

imo

I hope searchers check McDonald Lake. It is between Calgary and Airdrie.
 
Outta here for a bit. Some of these theories have me feeling a bit nauseous :)
 
ztzt said:
Can cadaver dogs detect how many living persons had been at an area previously?
Click to expand...

I think cadaver dogs only sniff out cadavers. But that's a good question and I'll try to find some more info.
 
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