Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[Cattools]

Can she? Just curious, I know some people are thinking they were possibly burnt.

I am no expert, but what I understand from the K9 thread is that if she and her handler are trained to do it, then they can.

 

[Krystine]

I've heard of this before. Police have asked people to search their own properties and work sites, but that's quite different from asking the general public to search other people's property. What if some shady people use this as an opportunity to go door to door in rural areas asking if they can have a look around the property ... with a plan to come back later and steal things? What if people in rural areas have different groups of strangers coming to their home at different times? None of that is okay. All rural land belongs to someone, so all of it is private property. Do people realize that? Perhaps not. How would they know who owns which 40 acre plot of land? A lot of the land is agricultural with the home at a different location.

Well said... since for some reason I couldn't access "thanks".

 

[appleeye]

In the other case you mentioned the issue is still ongoing

Thanks for the heads up, just did some reading. Another case that baffles me but mostly from the Human behaviour point of view

 

[peony27]

Satisfying morbid curiosity at the expense of the victims is not cool in my opinion.

I don't really think that is what it is, I think it is more to do with wondering if sully could find them. We want them to be found for the families sake.

 

[appleeye]

The cleaners in the comments were offering a "move out clean" not a crime scene clean.

It is my understanding that you must be trained to deal with crime scenes to do a proper removal of any sort of human remains, blood, etc. I am sure that is what you are saying as well.

I think that LE would hook them up with the people to take care of luminol, any evidence of struggle, etc.

 

[Cattools]

Can she? Just curious, I know some people are thinking they were possibly burnt.

Even in crematoriums where temperatures exceed 1100 degrees celsius HR is not totally destroyed. So, I figure if he tried to burn this kind of evidence, he would have found himself unable to completely destroy it.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Been avoiding posting for several days now as this tragedy is so very heart wrenching but I want to extend my condolences to the families affected.

Thank you for reconsidering the balloon idea for the safety of environment and wildlife. I never considered this before and am grateful to be educated about this risk.

If I may hypothesize about something. In reference to a post that perhaps dear child was in bed with grandparents. I thought of this last week and it troubled me for many days. IMO I believe it is a real possibility that the grandparents put NO to sleep in their bed earlier in the evening. We know from kijiji ad that there is a dismantled bed frame that was for sale. The pull out couch was in the basement area if it was not sold by then and removed. It would seem to make logical sense that NO was put to sleep in his grandparents bed. I posted previously that LE was on the main level of home and left the front door open whereby MSM reporter focused in on the area add to that the front living room curtains remained open during the whole forensic process therefore I don't believe there was any forensic aftermath on the main living area. IMO I believe that the family was sleeping when DG entered the home. Many people do leave the doors unlocked or a window et al. I believe DG entered the grandparents room and that is where the incidents occurred. The statement by JO that Nathan was in his grandmothers arms (paraphrasing) has me believing that there is evidence in the bed of NO being cradled somehow. I am sorry, this is my own fear and not based on any released facts. Whatever occurred did not occur on the main living area imo. In terms of the light being on in the foyer often times when children are in the home we leave lights on for many reasons. The only other thought I had was AL answered the door, and DG forced him into the bedroom and that was where DG saw NO for the first time.

Further to my post attached, I have some thoughts that are troubling, the light in the foyer being on, could it be possible that DG came to the front door that evening after dark and AL turned on the inside lights and answered and unlocked the door and then for either one of two reasons DG was able to enter the home. One scenario could be DG had a cordial greeting of sorts allowing access into the home without commotion the other scenario could be that DG had a weapon and made AL surrender. In either scenario could it be possible that DG had a gun with a silencer. I don't perceive DG with a knife for example causing collateral injury as that takes a great deal of energy and timing. I then continue my thoughts as above post where DG takes AL to the bedroom where NO and KL were likely sleeping. So very sad and unimaginable.

 

[inbetweendoors]

Regarding "calling off" the volunteer searches:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/police-discourage-amateur-search-for-bodies-of-missing-calgarians/article19669519/

"The uninvited crews lack the support specially trained search and rescue crews across the country have at their disposal. The aftermath of finding a body – whether the volunteer is trained or otherwise – can be dangerous."

 

[kdgdid]

AL's son AL has been given a map by the RCMP to search east of the G's property for the remains of his loved ones HUH I thought LE wanted the professionals to handle the searches????

http://globalnews.ca/video/1458419/allen-liknes-continues-searching-for-parents-nathan-obrien-3

 

[otto]

That is a lot of prairie wasteland to be searching, with too many side roads and deserted laneways to mention. Like driving in Montana in many areass. Good God.

Factor in that the fields are filled with 4' tall crops ... miles and miles of it.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Yes, in one video I posted earlier today there was a Servpro truck in the L's home driveway. Their website shows that they do crime scene cleanup

http://www.servpro.com/

 

[appleeye]

Even in crematoriums where temperatures exceed 1100 degrees celsius HR is not totally destroyed. So, I figure if he tried to burn this kind of evidence, he would have found himself unable to completely destroy it.

What are the possibilities that they have ashes and are sorting through it or waiting for DNA evidence to come out of it? Could that be why they seem to be dragging their heals and being so careful?

 

[goodasgold]

JMO: Has anyone else thought that maybe NO is still alive and out there or is it just me? I have a gut feeling that he is ok, maybe just denial and hope, but I had the same feeling with J. Dugard as well and she was found. I also felt as if the McStays were killed and have the same feeling with AL and KL but not NO. Like maybe DG did something else with NO, as he may have done what he is accused to KL and AL because they may have double crossed him but NO was innocent and I think that would mean something to DG since this is a relative to PG. Or maybe NO slept through the whole thing because DG didn't know he was there, hence the comment by JO (that he is out there because he wasn't supposed to be there) and since they knew who possibly went after AL and that he was part of the family they have to make it look like NO is missing for his own protection. I am just hopeful because the alternative is just too depressing when it comes to that little boy. Either way I still have hope for him until they are found.

 

[appleeye]

JMO: Has anyone else thought that maybe NO is still alive and out there or is it just me? I have a gut feeling that he is ok, maybe just denial and hope, but I had the this feeling with J. Dugard as well and she was found. I also felt as if the McStays were killed and have the same feeling with AL and KL but not NO. Like maybe DG did something else with NO, as he may have done what he is accused to KL and AL because they may have double crossed him but NO was innocent and I think that would mean something to DG since this is a relative to PG. Or maybe NO slept through the whole thing because DG didn't know he was there, hence the comment by JO (that he is out there because he wasn't supposed to be there) and since they knew who possible went after AL and he was part of the family they have to make it look like NO is missing for his own protection. I am just hopeful because the alternative is just too depressing when it comes to that little boy. Either way I still have hope for him until they are found.

I have no belief that any of the three are still alive. I wish I had a better feeling about it.

 

[kdgdid]

NP if you want some interesting reading go to VL's fb pg and read some of the comments left by a family member.

Thanks for the heads up, just did some reading. Another case that baffles me but mostly from the Human behaviour point of view

 

[peony27]

JMO: Has anyone else thought that maybe NO is still alive and out there or is it just me?

I know every single one of us wishes this with all of our hearts but it not likely, which is why this is so hard.

 

[bakerlady]

I don't understand...why would they do this? They ask people to look and then they say leave it to the pros? WT??? I have never ever ever in my lifetime seen a statement from police that tell people not to search...until now. I have Never heard of that...so what do they know??

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/a...n+from+volunteer+searches/10039101/story.html

My theory is that there were certain chemicals or supplies used that might have been stolen from a farm or oil field. Stuff that other people would not have access to, and when they say 'anything suspicious' they mean anything missing. JMO.

They said searchers would not know 'what to look for' because it might not be in the state that they assume it would be in.

 

[Cattools]

What are the possibilities that they have ashes and are sorting through it or waiting for DNA evidence to come out of it? Could that be why they seem to be dragging their heals and being so careful?

I don't know. I imagine that they would have looked through the ashes and recovered anything suspicious. Whether you can get DNA evidence is another question. Again, I don't know but it seems that in house fires they are able to positively identify HR so perhaps they can. If it can be done, it is probably a very specialized aspect of the process of identification. If he did try, he would not be the first offender who tried to dispose of evidence in this manner.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

AL's son AL has been given a map by the RCMP to search east of the G's property for the remains of his loved ones HUH I thought LE wanted the professionals to handle the searches????

http://globalnews.ca/video/1458419/allen-liknes-continues-searching-for-parents-nathan-obrien-3

I think it's a little different. That poor, poor man ... knowing that his brother in law is suspected of doing this horrific thing to his family must weigh on him so heavily

 

[winnnancy]

I don't really think that is what it is, I think it is more to do with wondering if sully could find them. We want them to be found for the families sake.

I can't speak for anyone else however I understand that dealing with trauma( this was horrific and touched people across the country on many levels) involves making sense of it and this includes knowing what happened in the first place. In addition, many if not most people would like to help if they only could.

This was a morbid and possibly gruesome crime and discussions may prove to be too much to some peoples sensitivities. That does not change the reality of what happened and what people are trying to understand .