Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[otto]

There were also a couple of barrels behind the greenhouse IIRC

I can't see the barrels in the photo. What am I missing?

 

[goodasgold]

Something that really bugs me is why up to last Friday they were saying they were hopeful to find them alive and the amber alert was still on. Then all of a sudden Sunday the alert was off and they were charging DG with murder. JMO but I wonder if LE was afraid he would run again like in the past and arrested him at 1:30 am and charged him to make it so he cannot run while they are getting the rest of the evidence. (or maybe to make him talk if he actually is innocent of the crime).

 

[bakerlady]

I don't know. I imagine that they would have looked through the ashes and recovered anything suspicious. Whether you can get DNA evidence is another question. Again, I don't know but it seems that in house fires they are able to positively identify HR so perhaps they can. If it can be done, it is probably a very specialized aspect of the process of identification. If he did try, he would not be the first offender who tried to dispose of evidence in this manner.

It is my understanding that after burning all that is left is bones. So if bones were removed from the ashes there would be little if no evidence remaining.

 

[otto]

I don't know. I imagine that they would have looked through the ashes and recovered anything suspicious. Whether you can get DNA evidence is another question. Again, I don't know but it seems that in house fires they are able to positively identify HR so perhaps they can. If it can be done, it is probably a very specialized aspect of the process of identification. If he did try, he would not be the first offender who tried to dispose of evidence in this manner.

The forensic science unit was at his parent's home collecting evidence. Something might have happened in that house.

 

[goodasgold]

It is my understanding that after burning all that is left is bones. So if bones were removed from the ashes there would be little if no evidence remaining.

Maybe the ashes even contain some DNA or maybe that is why they are trying so hard to find the bones.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

NP if you want some interesting reading go to VL's fb pg and read some of the comments left by a family member.

Sorry haven't heard of this VL before please advise. thanks

 

[bakerlady]

Something that really bugs me is why up to last Friday they were saying they were hopeful to find them alive and the amber alert was still on. Then all of a sudden Sunday the alert was off and they were charging DG with murder. JMO but I wonder if LE was afraid he would run again like in the past and arrested him at 1:30 am and charged him to make it so he cannot run while they are getting the rest of the evidence. (or maybe to make him talk if he actually is innocent of the crime).

My best guess is that they received results from forensics tests.

 

[otto]

Something that really bugs me is why up to last Friday they were saying they were hopeful to find them alive and the amber alert was still on. Then all of a sudden Sunday the alert was off and they were charging DG with murder. JMO but I wonder if LE was afraid he would run again like in the past and arrested him at 1:30 am and charged him to make it so he cannot run while they are getting the rest of the evidence. (or maybe to make him talk if he actually is innocent of the crime).

Police had to exhaust every possibility that the victims we no longer alive. There are no bodies. Ultimately they were able to announce, without hesitation, that the victims are deceased ... even though there are no bodies. They couldn't say that a week ago. The investigation continued until they could make that statement and be right. It commendable that police have been able to make that determination and make an arrest even though there are no bodies.

 

[Cattools]

Something that really bugs me is why up to last Friday they were saying they were hopeful to find them alive and the amber alert was still on. Then all of a sudden Sunday the alert was off and they were charging DG with murder. JMO but I wonder if LE was afraid he would run again like in the past and arrested him at 1:30 am and charged him to make it so he cannot run while they are getting the rest of the evidence. (or maybe to make him talk if he actually is innocent of the crime).

Chief Hanson said that as long as there was a "glimmer of hope" they wanted to proceed as a missing persons case, just as we would want them to do if our own family members were missing. But then, in consultation with Crown on Sunday they were satisfied they had evidence that it was a homicide and that they had the evidence to arrest DG.
Regarding the time and place of the arrest, it has been reported that there was an incident of some kind at his hotel and he was asked to leave. Apparently he went to the Airdrie property. We can only speculate why he went there. It does seem odd to me that he would go there. Didn't he suspect that the farm (as part of a crime scene) would be secured in some way, and the likelihood of being picked up there was pretty high?

The Crown and I think the Police Chief have stressed that the investigation and evidence collection continues.

 

[appleeye]

Sorry haven't heard of this VL before please advise. thanks

Different case, Victoria Hennesbury (sp) from the Loretta Saunders case... facebook page Victoria Love. Whole other can of worms.

 

[otto]

AL's son AL has been given a map by the RCMP to search east of the G's property for the remains of his loved ones HUH I thought LE wanted the professionals to handle the searches????

http://globalnews.ca/video/1458419/allen-liknes-continues-searching-for-parents-nathan-obrien-3

He is family. That is quite different from "the general public" going on private land. He appears to be working with RCMP rather that CPS.

 

[bakerlady]

Maybe the ashes even contain some DNA or maybe that is why they are trying so hard to find the bones.

Unfortunately ashes do not contain DNA.

 

[goodasgold]

Chief Hanson said that as long as there was a "glimmer of hope" they wanted to proceed as a missing persons case, just as we would want them to do if our own family members were missing. But then, in consultation with Crown on Sunday they were satisfied they had evidence that it was a homicide and that they had the evidence to arrest DG.
Regarding the time and place of the arrest, it has been reported that there was an incident of some kind at his hotel and he was asked to leave. Apparently he went to the Airdrie property. We can only speculate why he went there. It does seem odd to me that he would go there. Didn't he suspect that the farm (as part of a crime scene) would be secured in some way, and the likelihood of being picked up there was pretty high?

You would think DG would know that but it appears he is not thinking clearly these days if ever. So maybe he was going to check and see if something he hid is still there and was not found by LE?

 

[otto]

There's a place called Kathryn ... don't think it is related to the body location, but an interesting thought.
What sort of "clever" does Douglas Garland see in himself? That's a weird question, but is he clever sneaky and devious with a shifty eye? ... clever with a smirk? ... clever such that he perceives himself intellectually superior to everyone else?

 

[Krystine]

http://globalnews.ca/video/1458419/allen-liknes-continues-searching-for-parents-nathan-obrien-3[/QUOTE]
http://globalnews.ca/video/1458419/a...athan-obrien-3
This absolutely broke what was left of my heart. Allan Liknes is brave and determined, bless him.

 

[RubyRed]

Something that really bugs me is why up to last Friday they were saying they were hopeful to find them alive and the amber alert was still on. Then all of a sudden Sunday the alert was off and they were charging DG with murder. JMO but I wonder if LE was afraid he would run again like in the past and arrested him at 1:30 am and charged him to make it so he cannot run while they are getting the rest of the evidence. (or maybe to make him talk if he actually is innocent of the crime).

I think forensics came back, so at that point they knew it was murder.

Perhaps a family member could convince him to tell where the bodies are?

Or they could make a deal like this Calgary judge did with a man who murdered his two children. a prison transfer in exchange for where they were.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-could-be-prosecuted-without-bodies-1.2706996

 

[dairydog]

Sillybilly We WS members hope that you, your family & property are safe & away from those fires.

BBM

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Unfortunately ashes do not contain DNA.

Unless the fire was very, very hot the bones would not have burned and are an excellent source of DNA

Bone is one of the best sources of DNA from decomposed human remains. Even after the flesh is decomposed, DNA can often be obtained from demineralized bone. DNA from bone has been used to identify the repatrioted bones from Vietnam era servicemen, and the remains of the White Russian Romanov family who were executed during the Bolsheviek revolution.


http://www.biology.arizona.edu/human_bio/problem_sets/dna_forensics_2/06t.html

 

[Sillybilly]

Unfortunately ashes do not contain DNA.

There was fairly extensive convo about identification of burned remains over in Tim Bosma's thread .. dentals are the best way to identify as compared to DNA:

from Bessie's post in that forum:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?213364-The-Incinerator&p=9608172#post9608172

Although Bernstein is not involved in the Dorner case, "I think that all the elements are there for a possible identification," he said. "Dental identifications are so much quicker and so much less expensive than DNA."

 

[bakerlady]

There's a place called Kathryn ... don't think it is related to the body location, but an interesting thought.
What sort of "clever" does Douglas Garland see in himself? That's a weird question, but is he clever sneaky and devious with a shifty eye? ... clever with a smirk? ... clever such that he perceives himself intellectually superior to everyone else?

It's actually KathYRN but I see what you are trying to say and I think it's all of the above. I do think he thought he would not get caught and this would be 'the perfect crime'.