Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[Linike]

I agree 100%. He did this on his own - plotted it, executed it, with one exception.......little Nathan.

 

[julydarling]

I agree 100%. He did this on his own - plotted it, executed it, with one exception.......little Nathan.

I agree. I have to wonder though - did he stalk them before? If it had been years since he'd seen them, he would need to know their routines, the lay out of their house etc. Even his own brother in law said he had not seen DG in about 4 years (was on one of the newscasts a little while ago). If it were me, I would be making sure I knew their routines, when they come and go, everything I possibly could before even entertaining the idea of committing a crime. He's not dumb. I bet if there was security footage reviewed from the past year, he has driven by this house, possibly even entered the house numerous times.

 

[sublimemumma]

The only reason I disagree with the accomplice theory is that DG is a loner. Everyone has described him as such. He's a loner who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. I don't believe he would be willing to bring an outside hand in to assist. He's had year to stew and plot this, so who knows what methods he dreamed up.

I completely agree with you. He has had a long time to think this through. Since the L couple was to be moving very soon, and with the well promoted estate sale they were having, DG could felt he was running out of time. I really believe that he wasn't expecting little Nathan to be there. With that being said, I have seen my husband lift a 200 lb person without to much trouble, he is not a little guy, but doesn't seem that he would be that much bigger then DG looks to be next to the police in the videos I have seen. I don't think it is to far fetched to believe he did this on his own...
Also we don't know what time of the night he carried this out. So for the neighbors to not of seen anything in the late night or early morning doesn't seem to out of the question. I am sure with the estate sale the neighbors have seen a lot of random people at their house during this time and a lot of random things being carried out of the house to their vehicle.

 

[peony27]

I completely agree with you. He has had a long time to think this through. Since the L couple was to be moving very soon, and with the well promoted estate sale they were having, DG could felt he was running out of time. I really believe that he wasn't expecting little Nathan to be there. With that being said, I have seen my husband lift a 200 lb person without to much trouble, he is not a little guy, but doesn't seem that he would be that much bigger then DG looks to be next to the police in the videos I have seen. I don't think it is to far fetched to believe he did this on his own...

I agree, and also think he wouldn't have risked telling anyone who could rat him out. He had planned this for a while , and had planned it to leave no evidence ( NO must of changed his plans a bit). I also think he wasn't aware of the camera on the neighbouring street. If he thought he would get away with this, why would he risk telling anyone who knowing.

 

[Linike]

I believe that with his reported 'superior intelligence' he knew everything he needed - down to the minute details -to be able to pull off this crime. He knew what he was doing with the bodies after the crime. Murder one - shows premeditation. I believe that LE has that evidence.

 

[sublimemumma]

I agree, and also think he wouldn't have risked telling anyone who could rat him out. He had planned this for a while , and had planned it to leave no evidence ( NO must of changed his plans a bit). I also think he wasn't aware of the camera on the neighbouring street. If he thought he would get away with this, why would he risk telling anyone who knowing.

Yes poor NO (amber alert) and the cameras seem to of been the things to really get this investigation moving. I have also thought that if he is a chemist wouldn't he know ways to dispose of a body that the normal person may not know. I really wonder if there is bodies left to find. As horrid as it sounds, maybe they have found proof of disposal of bodies, dna but not their actual bodies? It's so tough to say because they really can't release much info in order to effect the outcome of the court proceedings.

 

[RubyRed]

"In cases like this, when you have huge tracts of land that could have been the spot where the bodies were left, any help at all from people who can just check their properties would be appreciated. Even being aware that we're still looking to gather any evidence and anything that's out of the ordinary, people should let us know."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ian-search-called-off-over-backlash-1.2708571

From the same article I posted about searches. So what is the difference? What do they (homeowners) look for? Ashes, bones, clothing, bodies? Circling birds or gathering predators such as coyotes ? jmo

 

[sublimemumma]

IMHO I don't think anyone should ever discount the strength of a man who is used to doing daily heavy lifting and manual labour(farm work to a T). Case in point: when I was younger I helped my friends family move... They hired movers but they also brought in some of their personal employees to help speed the process (owned a landscaping company). Two of the employees were brothers who had grown up on a farm and had actually worked as movers prior to working for this persons company. These two guys were on their mid 30s and by all accounts thin... They did not have buff defined arms, they were slender. There was this massive old piano that looked to be solid oak and I remember the movers being apprehensive and going to get "equipment" to assist in lifting this heavy, old piano up a decent flight of stairs.... These two "skinny" guys didn't even bat an eyelash... They picked up that piano and literally ran up the stairs with it smiling... Looks can be very deceiving.

Also in thinking about an accomplice theory I feel writes out by DG past criminal history. Two of the more pervasive problems in today's society are Meth and identity theft...But back in the 90s most people had not even heard of methamphetamine and ID theft was NOT happening in the way it is now.... FOIP laws were created in response to modern identity theft. Anyway, I believe to be involved in either of those activities, not to mention both, you would NEED to have ties to some form of organized crime. Again just my thoughts, that's all.

Also I find it very, very odd that DG was caught using this old false identity. Surely LE would have taken all his materials, pertaining to the illegal identity, when he was charged years ago. For DG to have had docs prepared under the same stolen identity is extremely weird to me....

As a mumma of three little ones I haven't had time to do as much reading as some of you so I could be totally wrong but I have heard that he had a stolen credit card but have not heard that it is linked to the identity that he had stolen before. I was just assuming it was a totally different person's identity on the credit card. Yes would not mesh with what we seem to of gathered on the character of DG

 

[Cherchri]

Been avoiding posting for several days now as this tragedy is so very heart wrenching but I want to extend my condolences to the families affected.

Thank you for reconsidering the balloon idea for the safety of environment and wildlife. I never considered this before and am grateful to be educated about this risk.

If I may hypothesize about something. In reference to a post that perhaps dear child was in bed with grandparents. I thought of this last week and it troubled me for many days. IMO I believe it is a real possibility that the grandparents put NO to sleep in their bed earlier in the evening. We know from kijiji ad that there is a dismantled bed frame that was for sale. The pull out couch was in the basement area if it was not sold by then and removed. It would seem to make logical sense that NO was put to sleep in his grandparents bed. I posted previously that LE was on the main level of home and left the front door open whereby MSM reporter focused in on the area add to that the front living room curtains remained open during the whole forensic process therefore I don't believe there was any forensic aftermath on the main living area. IMO I believe that the family was sleeping when DG entered the home. Many people do leave the doors unlocked or a window et al. I believe DG entered the grandparents room and that is where the incidents occurred. The statement by JO that Nathan was in his grandmothers arms (paraphrasing) has me believing that there is evidence in the bed of NO being cradled somehow. I am sorry, this is my own fear and not based on any released facts. Whatever occurred did not occur on the main living area imo. In terms of the light being on in the foyer often times when children are in the home we leave lights on for many reasons. The only other thought I had was AL answered the door, and DG forced him into the bedroom and that was where DG saw NO for the first time.

My hypothesis too and one which I shared in the last day or two. Makes perfect sense to me. Much easier to overcome sleeping people. We're all so vulnerable when supine and asleep.

 

[peony27]

As a mumma of three little ones I haven't had time to do as much reading as some of you so I could be totally wrong but I have heard that he had a stolen credit card but have not heard that it is linked to the identity that he had stolen before. I was just assuming it was a totally different person's identity on the credit card. Yes would not mesh with what we seem to of gathered on the character of DG

From what has been said by news outlets it was an ID in the same identity he stole before.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1451758/who-is-calgary-triple-murder-suspect-douglas-garland/

If you read after where it says released than re-arrested , it says so.

 

[ztzt]

What proves they aren't going the other way ? Sorry if I missed this somehow in another post but someone could have been injured in the drive , bled near the 15 marker , then taken back to the house. The drag marks go from wide to smaller as they round that corner.

What I posted before: killer dragged victim out of the side door to the garage door, then put it down on the ground while he went to get access to the vehicle, during which time the victim's blood accumulated where it's left on the ground, resulting in larger stains. It doesn't make sense for the killer to drag the victim from outside to inside the house---he would have to drag it out again leaving marks again.

Link again to the video showing the drag marks 0:59~1:05

 

[badhorsie]

Full rigor takes a while to set in. It generally begins about 2 hours after death but starts with the smaller muscles like those in the face. Unless he waited quite a while I would assume that full rigor wouldn't have set in

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

From my (nursing) experience, a body is really setting into rigor after about 6 hours, depending on size, build etc

 

[ResearchQuest]

Issues that are still bothering me:

1. Where did AL go to university, if he was a petroleum engineer? I believe this is relevant because if he received a degree in petroleum engineering, he certainly wouldn't need DG's help. However, if he didn't, he may have contracted with DG for his considerable chemical background.

Why so many bankruptcies? Is this part of a boom/bust economy in Calgary that isn't normally reported in news? Or is this like the Vancouver stock exchange in the 1980s and 1990s, out of control and run by criminals. No offense meant, I'm just so curious as to the shell companies, overseas companies, things like that. It must be making LE's job more difficult not to say expensive to trace all of this stuff.

Did DG really fall asleep at the wheel? Was he trying to imply that he was responsible for MKH's death? Setting himself up to seem 'deranged' when really he wasn't?

Is it just me, or is there just something OFF with this whole thing? Something missing? Something just isn't ringing true and I can't put my finger on it. Yet.

And who does this black truck/SUV belong to?

http://globalnews.ca/news/1436203/m...igators-spend-third-day-searching-rural-land/ (image 2)

I am so bothered by this disgraceful crime, and think about little NO every day.

 

[ztzt]

And who does this black truck/SUV belong to?

http://globalnews.ca/news/1436203/m...igators-spend-third-day-searching-rural-land/ (image 2)

I've seen that picture (#2), but the caption didn't mention what it is. Was it the abandoned SUV? Where exactly was it found?

 

[Red Viewfinder]

I'm guessing a 200 lb body is much easier to manage with whatever degree of rigor Mortis it may have developed? As for a dead lift onto the tailgate, ( what's the weight of a hay bale? )
I think that he may have " stood" a stiff AL pivoted a few times and slid into the bed of the truck. Jerky movements vs a slow lift.

I think he made Kathryn help him move AL.

 

[appleeye]

Issues that are still bothering me:

Is it just me, or is there just something OFF with this whole thing? Something missing? Something just isn't ringing true and I can't put my finger on it. Yet.

YES! I think that there is something VERY off about this crime, the way it has been handled, everything about it. I believe (MOO) that the family was told almost instantly that there was little chance that they were alive. The reason I believe this is that there were very few cries for help, statements from the parents, flyers, everything that normally happens when a person goes missing did not happen.

I feel like the police are not playing their cards. They didn't with Tim Bosma, either but I felt like things played out a little more textbook than this.

 

[otto]

Been avoiding posting for several days now as this tragedy is so very heart wrenching but I want to extend my condolences to the families affected.

Thank you for reconsidering the balloon idea for the safety of environment and wildlife. I never considered this before and am grateful to be educated about this risk.

If I may hypothesize about something. In reference to a post that perhaps dear child was in bed with grandparents. I thought of this last week and it troubled me for many days. IMO I believe it is a real possibility that the grandparents put NO to sleep in their bed earlier in the evening. We know from kijiji ad that there is a dismantled bed frame that was for sale. The pull out couch was in the basement area if it was not sold by then and removed. It would seem to make logical sense that NO was put to sleep in his grandparents bed. I posted previously that LE was on the main level of home and left the front door open whereby MSM reporter focused in on the area add to that the front living room curtains remained open during the whole forensic process therefore I don't believe there was any forensic aftermath on the main living area. IMO I believe that the family was sleeping when DG entered the home. Many people do leave the doors unlocked or a window et al. I believe DG entered the grandparents room and that is where the incidents occurred. The statement by JO that Nathan was in his grandmothers arms (paraphrasing) has me believing that there is evidence in the bed of NO being cradled somehow. I am sorry, this is my own fear and not based on any released facts. Whatever occurred did not occur on the main living area imo. In terms of the light being on in the foyer often times when children are in the home we leave lights on for many reasons. The only other thought I had was AL answered the door, and DG forced him into the bedroom and that was where DG saw NO for the first time.

It's good to see you posting again! I posted a floor plan of the house based on the front elevation, the aerial footprint, and the traditional layout of four level split homes. The room where the windows go to the floor must be the room upstairs in the front of the house with the balcony. I know that you looked carefully at all of the kijiji ads and media photos to understand the floorplan. Please have a look and let me know what you think about this as an approximate layout (proportions approximate as well).

 

[otto]

I'm guessing a 200 lb body is much easier to manage with whatever degree of rigor Mortis it may have developed? As for a dead lift onto the tailgate, ( what's the weight of a hay bale? )
I think that he may have " stood" a stiff AL pivoted a few times and slid into the bed of the truck. Jerky movements vs a slow lift.

A quick search suggests that a bale of wheat is 40-50 pounds. Another suggestion is 80-90 pounds.

 

[garbagetweet]

Issues that are still bothering me:

1. Where did AL go to university, if he was a petroleum engineer? I believe this is relevant because if he received a degree in petroleum engineering, he certainly wouldn't need DG's help. However, if he didn't, he may have contracted with DG for his considerable chemical background.

Why so many bankruptcies? Is this part of a boom/bust economy in Calgary that isn't normally reported in news? Or is this like the Vancouver stock exchange in the 1980s and 1990s, out of control and run by criminals. No offense meant, I'm just so curious as to the shell companies, overseas companies, things like that. It must be making LE's job more difficult not to say expensive to trace all of this stuff.

I believe I read in some article (can't find it now) that AL worked in the oil and gas industry for over 30 years (may have been 40 years.) Back in those times it was common for folks to enter the industry without formal, post secondary training and learn on the job. He may be a Petroleum Engineer but without formal training and a degree. I know many older Engineers or Geoscientists that honed their craft on the job.

I checked the APEGA membership register and it did not show AL so he obviously is not and was not a Professional Engineer.

Bankruptcies are common in the resource sector (Alberta oil patch.) Junior companies constantly come and go. It is boom and bust. In the early 80's the city and industry went bust (National Energy Program.) The financial crisis from a few years ago was extremely tough on junior companies. Gas prices tanked, oil prices tanked, demand was low and investment and financing (especially for junior companies) did not exist. Many junior companies were lucky if they could sell their assets or merge with another company but most companies had to shut their doors.

 

[ResearchQuest]

I've seen that picture (#2), but the caption didn't mention what it is. Was it the abandoned SUV? Where exactly was it found?

I'm not sure at all. In Airdrie, I'm guessing, but it never really was explained.