CANADA Canada- Amanda Antoni, 31, found dead in her basement, considered suspicious but ruled an accidental fall down stairs, Calgary, 26/10/15, *Netflix*

[Lalalacasbah]

In Canada, drywall quality has changed over the last 60 years. Initially it was strong, hard to dent. Today it is so soft that nudging a chair that is touching the drywall can leave a dent.

So true, my little kids swung open a bedroom door where the door handle hit the wall and put a hole in the dry wall. I was also rocking my baby in a rocking chair a few years ago and I guess slammed the chair into the wall while rocking and 2 holes there now too from the rocking chair... We would seem rowdy but it's just crappy drywall!!

 

[FromGermany1]

I wondered, why A's husband said (if he did?), that Amanda didn't like to go down into the basement.
Why did it seem important to him?
I think, whether she liked it or not, as a housewife certainly she HAD to go there every now and then (with the laundry basket, with the cleaning bucket and so on?). Or was the husband so nice to do it for her?

 

[otto]

I wondered, why A's husband said (if he did?), that Amanda didn't like to go down into the basement.
Why did it seem important to him?
I think, whether she liked it or not, as a housewife certainly she HAD to go there every now and then (with the laundry basket, with the cleaning bucket and so on?). Or was the husband so nice to do it for her?

I recall that detail from the Netflix series. I think he was questioning why she remained in the basement after the injury - since she didn't like the basement. It doesn't add up.

Maybe he was lamenting the fact that she didn't like that space and that's where she died.

 

[annpats]

In Canada, drywall quality has changed over the last 60 years. Initially it was strong, hard to dent. Today it is so soft that nudging a chair that is touching the drywall can leave a dent.

Oh my! I'm glad for our thick solid walls in England. A 400lb person could throw themselves against them with all their force and they won't ever move! You're lucky to find a good drill bit to drill a hole in them too!

By the way, how do you repair dented drywall in the US & Canada?

(Sorry for the slight derailment) but hard/soft walls are interesting from a crime perspective, especially in this case!

 

[otto]

Oh my! I'm glad for our thick solid walls in England. A 400lb person could throw themselves against them with all their force and they won't ever move! You're lucky to find a good drill bit to drill a hole in them too!

By the way, how do you repair dented drywall in the US & Canada?

(Sorry for the slight derailment) but hard/soft walls are interesting from a crime perspective, especially in this case!

Drywall mud, scraper, sandpaper, paint.

Quick search of Castleridge history - houses were built between 1980-1990. The drywall is not nearly as soft as houses built in 2020. When Amanda's head pushed into the piggy bank, two things happened. The piggy bank dented the wall, and it broke on her head.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Drywall mud, scraper, sandpaper, paint.

Quick search of Castleridge history - houses were built between 1980-1990. The drywall is not nearly as soft as houses built in 2020. When Amanda's head pushed into the piggy bank, two things happened. The piggy bank dented the wall, and it broke on her head.

I'm still having a serious problem with that piggy bank. Not just the angle but the break.

It looked pretty thick from the photo. Wouldn't she have to hit it twice? Once to crack/break it and a second to get the fatal slice/cut? IIRC the shards on the stairs looked quite small and it was described fragments embedded into her forehead, the fatal cut was right side of orbital/eye to forehead.

It almost seems like a smash with forehead to break the object and with that pointed jagged exposed a second hit would make quite a cut. Unless the piggy bank's whole face just cracked off with one impact, but then why the fragments if so?

And is it a lamb or a pig? I have tried to find a match to see original 'face' of the bank, searching all over but nothing yet.

 

[otto]

Did Amanda have a broken neck? If she hit the piggy bank from 5 feet away (on the dining room floor), crashed into the PB that was against a wall, and the ledge (which is made of 2x4s), did she have broken collar bone, neck, or ribs?

 

[otto]

I'm still having a serious problem with that piggy bank. Not just the angle but the break.

It looked pretty thick from the photo. Wouldn't she have to hit it twice? Once to crack/break it and a second to get the fatal slice/cut? IIRC the shards on the stairs looked quite small and it was described fragments embedded into her forehead, the fatal cut was right side of orbital/eye to forehead.

It almost seems like a smash with forehead to break the object and with that pointed jagged exposed a second hit would make quite a cut. Unless the piggy bank's whole face just cracked off with one impact, but then why the fragments if so?

And is it a lamb or a pig? I have tried to find a match to see original 'face' of the bank, searching all over but nothing yet.

View attachment 526301

Lamb. Thick ceramic. Parts must be inside the lamb. The lamb might have slightly moved or turned along the ledge behind the railing when Amanda crashed into it.

I think she hit the lamb once ... while she was on the phone. The phone is 8-10 feet from the stairs, but she dropped the phone, and catapulted into the lamb so hard that she kept tumbling down the stairs, leaving lamb fragments in her head and on the stairs. She left blood on the wall at the bottom of the stairs.

She moved to another corner of the basement and bled over a large area in the basement. She walked to the stairs, did not go upstairs, returned to the pool of blood in the corner, and died. Why didn't she go upstairs?

 

[sunspun]

Lamb. Thick ceramic. Parts must be inside the lamb. The lamb might have slightly moved or turned along the ledge behind the railing when Amanda crashed into it.

She moved to another corner of the basement and bled over a large area in the basement. She walked to the stairs, did not go upstairs, returned to the pool of blood in the corner, and died. Why didn't she go upstairs?

I think it would have been because she had double vision or felt faint from her injuries/blood loss.

I picture her having her terrible fall and getting hurt and seeing a LOT of blood, lying on the floor, struggling to stand upright, barely making her way over to the foot of the stairs, and then she stands there and looks up.

With her major injury being so near her eye (orbital bone), I think it likely she had double vision. So swaying, feeling dizzy and faint, barely able to keep her balance on the solid floor, looking up to the top of the stairs possibly with double vision... it must have looked to her in this condition, like a monumental task to try to make it back up the stairs. She may have realized she couldn't do it without falling again and decided not to try just then. Or all the blood (either just the sight of it which makes many people faint, or the heavy loss of blood which makes us weak and faint) may have caused her to pass out, and then she bled out so quickly that she never had a chance to try to go back up.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm reading some interesting info from another site from someone who lived in the house from 1999-2005.

I can't post it here but maybe I can paraphrase? Mods, please snip if this isn't allowed, some interesting tidbits to take with a grain of salt but still interesting:

1. I guess the house was exactly as that owner left it - paint, floors, fence, everything.
2. Mentioned no way the phone would break on that laminate.
3. Regarding that weird corner on the stairs - when owner bought and sold the house, both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side. Mentioned it looks worse than it really is and yes it is open but you can't fall through that hole the way you think.
4. Old owner thinks maybe hard at that angle to hit piggy bank and it would've fallen off the shelf having lived there for 6 years BUT said bizarre but still possible to slip and hit it. Also mentioned theres pieces of that pig all the way to the back wall around the corner of the basement
5. There is laminate on the top 2 stairs, could possible be slippery if she was wearing the slippers. Old owner has wiped out on those stairs himself.
6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.
7. Laundry room is in basement.
8. Previous owner did not like the basement either, he doesn't believe in ghosts or paranormal but still got creeped out down there because he said it's pitch black.

 

[otto]

I'm reading some interesting info from another site from someone who lived in the house from 1999-2005.

I can't post it here but maybe I can paraphrase? Mods, please snip if this isn't allowed, some interesting tidbits to take with a grain of salt but still interesting:

1. I guess the house was exactly as that owner left it - paint, floors, fence, everything.
2. Mentioned no way the phone would break on that laminate.
3. Regarding that weird corner on the stairs - when owner bought and sold the house, both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side. Mentioned it looks worse than it really is and yes it is open but you can't fall through that hole the way you think.
4. Old owner thinks maybe hard at that angle to hit piggy bank and it would've fallen off the shelf having lived there for 6 years BUT said bizarre but still possible to slip and hit it. Also mentioned theres pieces of that pig all the way to the back wall around the corner of the basement
5. There is laminate on the top 2 stairs, could possible be slippery if she was wearing the slippers. Old owner has wiped out on those stairs himself.
6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.
7. Laundry room is in basement.
8. Previous owner did not like the basement either, he doesn't believe in ghosts or paranormal but still got creeped out down there because he said it's pitch black.

I disagree regarding decisions about code based on hand rails. There are no barriers or handrails on a section of the dining room floor.

3. "both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side." Did they look at this detail?

 

[otto]

No lights in the basement, where the washer/dryer was located? That sounds like another code violation. I'm skeptical. There must have been lights in the basement. It looks like a developer neighbourhood with standard 35' lot floorplans.

Forced air furnace means the basement is the same temperature as the rest of the house - especially since the furnace is in the basement.

I disagree with this as well. Why would the basement be "pitch black" and "really cold"? It's not a cellar.

6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

No lights in the basement, where the washer/dryer was located? That sounds like another code violation. I'm skeptical. There must have been lights in the basement. It looks like a developer neighbourhood with standard 35' lot floorplans.

Forced air furnace means the basement is the same temperature as the rest of the house - especially since the furnace is in the basement.

I disagree with this as well. Why would the basement be "pitch black" and "really cold"? It's not a cellar.

6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.

I'm unsure... Laundry was in basement and boiler room IIRC he said. I imagine lights down there as his office was previously down there but if lights out, pitch black I'm guessing. Maybe colder if below ground?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I disagree regarding decisions about code based on hand rails. There are no barriers or handrails on a section of the dining room floor.

3. "both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side." Did they look at this detail?

View attachment 526312

Yeah kinda weird I know! I think he said it's a tighter and smaller space than it looks? So yes, a bit confusing and take what you will from it. He gave exact measurements I think, I'll see if I can find it again

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Did Amanda have a broken neck? If she hit the piggy bank from 5 feet away (on the dining room floor), crashed into the PB that was against a wall, and the ledge (which is made of 2x4s), did she have broken collar bone, neck, or ribs?

I believe there was no broken anything that I recall mentioned.

Only bruising and like she was beat up - but that wasn't cause of death they said and I don't think any brain or outright head trauma either, just that laceration/orbital wound and bleeding out. I think they expected fatal type wounds and were surprised by their findings. I think they originally thought she was beaten or bludgeoned/stabbed to death (sorry graphic). That's what I took from LE comments in the show.

Someone mentioned seizures upthread, but LE would've mentioned that would be considered if seen on the autopsy report. I'm assuming they can tell in autopsy if a seizure was experienced.

 

[otto]

I'm unsure... Laundry was in basement and boiler room IIRC he said. I imagine lights down there as his office was previously down there but if lights out, pitch black I'm guessing. Maybe colder if below ground?

This is a house built in Calgary between 1980 and 1990 where temperatures fluctuate between -35°C to +35°C annually. There is an hot water tank and a forced air natural gas furnace in the basement. The basement may or may not be developed, but building codes require lighting in the basement. There should be lighting in the stairwell, and in the basement. The furnace heats all floors of the house.

 

[Charlot123]

.

No lights in the basement, where the washer/dryer was located? That sounds like another code violation. I'm skeptical. There must have been lights in the basement. It looks like a developer neighbourhood with standard 35' lot floorplans.

Forced air furnace means the basement is the same temperature as the rest of the house - especially since the furnace is in the basement.

I disagree with this as well. Why would the basement be "pitch black" and "really cold"? It's not a cellar.

6. Basement is pitch black and would've been really cold that time of year.

I suddenly thought that if the whole basement had been rebuilt, additional wall put up or something like it, well, sometimes no one bothers to rewire the new structure. Not only because it is expensive, but IMHO, no one wants to mess up with wiring. In my office, the light is outside - if I switch it on, it lights the whole hallway, So maybe it was pitch dark and the light would be switched on inside the basement?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Ok just watched an IG video of questions from posters/public for Detective Dave Sweet, the lead investigator. Paraphrasing his answers below:

- AA's autopsy did not show any traumatic brain injury or pre-condition. She did not have an aneurysm
- Lee, LE and paramedics did not leave bloody footprints in the basement after finding AA because the blood we see in the pics was already dry, no impressions made. Impressions only happen with wet blood.
- Ruby, the lab indeed was on the main floor and had many accidents on the main floor, hence why Lee was eager to let her out the back door right away as he saw all the accidents upon arrival
- Lee thought he was doing AA a favor by not calling her back the next day and hounding her. The investigator reminds people that we all say what we would and wouldn't do in situations and in hindsight and to remember that, we all don't act the same way.

 

[otto]

I believe there was no broken anything that I recall mentioned.

Only bruising and like she was beat up - but that wasn't cause of death they said and I don't think any brain or outright head trauma either, just that laceration/orbital wound and bleeding out. I think they expected fatal type wounds and were surprised by their findings. I think they originally thought she was beaten or bludgeoned/stabbed to death (sorry graphic). That's what I took from LE comments in the show.

Someone mentioned seizures upthread, but LE would've mentioned that would be considered if seen on the autopsy report. I'm assuming they can tell in autopsy if a seizure was experienced.

That's interesting. If her head was the first thing to hit the ceramic lamb, did she hit it from standing on the dining room floor, or from the landing. If the landing, how could she have done that? If the dining room floor, why no related injuries?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I disagree regarding decisions about code based on hand rails. There are no barriers or handrails on a section of the dining room floor.

3. "both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side." Did they look at this detail?

View attachment 526312

Found it! Info that previous owner posted: The hole isn't that big. Its literally about 15" by 30" When I bought and sold that house, both inspectors said it was to code because there was a hand railing on the other side. It looks worse than it really is. Yes its open but you cant fall through that hole the way you think.

Again, take with a grain of salt!