Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[nuff]

“Who, when committing suicide, binds their arms up in their jacket? Given this and the many years of a loving relationship between the Shermans, I think it's bizarre to think this was a murder-suicide. “

The murder-suicide theory has been incomprehensible to me. Everyone has a right to their opinion, of course, but I don’t see how it’s even worth entertaining.

Just a small experiment you might want to try. Put on a coat or jacket that zips up. Fasten it. Now (if you can - takes a bit of wriggling) push the sleeves down with your hands behind you. Even without then binding your wrists, you're pretty much immobilized. (I did it; don't recommend it unless you have someone close by to help you out of it.)

 

[SeesSeas]

I hope the Sherman children and loved ones can eventually get past the terrible crime scene imagery and remember them as they were before this happened.

ETA: Photo from: https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

I share your sentiments.
Here is my favorite photo of Barry and Honey:
https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

 

[ilovepierre]

Has a source reported that HS died first? I know there were reports that there was a secondary scene involving HS, I just don't remember any stating she had died first. I could of easily missed the report.
In the new reports it says the belts were tied to the railing. It,s possible tha they were tied to the posts of the railing IMO and would still be considered tied to the railing.

AFAIK, there hasnt been any media source saying HS died first.
There was speculation here that she died first because her body was no longer in rigor mortis when TPS removed the bodies from the scene.

IMO

 

[AddyFinch]

I share your sentiments.
Here is my favorite photo of Barry and Honey:
https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

I couldn't agree more! It is the essence of happiness!!!

 

[foxe]

I read the Sherman kids are going to demolish the house.

 

[Sillybilly]

Some posts have been removed. Please leave politics out of this discussion.

Thanks.

 

[JayFriend]

That is an interesting thought Jayfriend. Perhaps they were positioned as they were - from the railing, seated but not yet killed - so the person that ordered the killing could stand in front of them and speak to them. Awful to think about. Moo

Or else a picture could be taken for whoever ordered the hit.

 

[Hazel]

Just had a thought about the removal of the wrist ties (and based on the latest "rumours") - could this be a double murder deliberately staged to look like a murder-suicide? The ties would have been the biggest clue that a third party was involved.

Until we hear LE's confirmation about the wrists markings, I'm taking that piece of information with a big pinch of salt, because they couldn't even determine if the hands were tied in front or behind. We don't know if the 1st. autopsy also arrived to same conclusion about the wrists markings, or could the markings have been caused by bracelets, watches when the coats were pulled down?

There are markings on the Shermans’ wrists, an indication that at some point their hands were tied together, though no rope or other ties were found near the bodies.

A key finding discovered in Chiasson’s autopsy were marks on both Barry and Honey Sherman’s wrists, an indication that each person’s wrists were bound together at some point, likely with rope or a plastic strap. An examination of the markings does not clearly determine if the hands were bound in front or behind. Their hands were not bound when the bodies were discovered.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

 

[Researchnut]

Some posts have been removed. Please leave politics out of this discussion.

Thanks.

I didn't post anything political although I'm wondering how politics can be left out of this particular case when every part of the Shermans business life was based on polotics . They were involved in lobbying,non profits,legal cases,and thier personal associates just to name a few.

I must have missed a silly argument.

 

[PennyBugsDad]

I didn't post anything political although I'm wondering how politics can be left out of this particular case when every part of the Shermans business life was based on polotics . They were involved in lobbying,non profits,legal cases,and thier personal associates just to name a few.

I must have missed a silly argument.

Perhaps it has to do with lawsuits? Slander in rumors.. not certain myself.

 

[Hazel]

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

:couch: Please read with an open mind then you can rip up my post.

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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]In the above 'linked article' I read sources leaked BS & HS wrists showed evidence" ,at one point , "bound together".[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I thought about the awkward placement of 'at one point' in the sentence.Then I took time to re-read the statement without the oddly placed "at one point" . I kept in mind the authors narrative is to to 'damm the shoddy rush to judgment by LE'. OK,with that in mind the so called evidence leaked by the legal team is conclusive,"their wrists showed evidence of being bound together". That is really damming.Investigators slam dunk their 'evidence' not by 'proving' they were bound i.e. tie wraps.But they instead prove a negative ;muddling the water so to speak. BS & HS wrists 'had' to be bound together because there was no restraining binding at the CS (i.e.)tie wraps.It's all very smoky and vague.So now LE needs to prove the legal team is wrong on their 'leaked' bombshell that BS and HS had been bound at the wrist.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Finally I will make my point
[/FONT][/FONT]Instead of the very straight forward statement the legal team adds 'at one point'. That really is a get out of jail free card. Now it becomes just speculation by the legal investigators.There is no evidence all,it evaporates.Saying 'at some time 'literally is a tactic to try their spin their theory as fact. in the court of public opinion they have evidence that BS & HS prior to their deaths both were bound together at their wrists[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold].[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]But everyone will of course come to their own conclusion. Which is as it should be when you are giving a personal opinion.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]This is just my interpretation please feel free to critique![/FONT][/FONT]
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Agree!
Great post!

 

[Grey-St]

it is important to remember that bs was in fact the smartest person in the room, every day of his adult life. If he wanted to stage a ms to look like a mm (for whatever reason) he would be smart enough to be able to stage the scene convincingly. It is possible he wrapped some rope or a zip tie tightly around his wrists for about a half hour and then removed them before suicide in order to leave marks on his wrists and lead detectives towards an outside murder. He could have easily disposed of the rope or zip tie in a neighboring street or yard before suicide. Remember, apparently the cameras in the area apparently don’t show anyone coming or going, whether bs or other killers, so has as much chance of not being seen leaving the house as did the killers. Or maybe LE has found the rope in the house and PI’s haven’t been told.
i know the ms theory is not generally accepted here, and many may dismiss this outright, but bs was smart enough to be able to stage this imo.

The murder-suicide theory was widely accepted here, with many folks also being on the fence. What I'm questioning though, is if it's possible for BS to bound his wrists so tightly as to leave markings, and then remove himself from being so tightly bound. Put your wrists together and imagine securing something tightly around them with your own hands. Then to remove it? I really don't know if it can be done, no matter how intelligent BS was.

 

[Grey-St]

Until we hear LE's confirmation about the wrists markings, I'm taking that piece of information with a big pinch of salt, because they couldn't even determine if the hands were tied in front or behind. We don't know if the 1st. autopsy also arrived to same conclusion about the wrists markings, or could the markings have been caused by bracelets, watches when the coats were pulled down?

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

I don't know how not being able to tell if their arms were in front or behind, makes the wrist markings "pinch of salt" worthy. If you take this information with a pinch of salt because it hasn't been confirmed by LE, I get that. But how the arms were positioned likely won't be signified by the markings on their wrists.

 

[pamelado2]

As murders go, husband kills wife is a pretty common one. And it's also not unusual for outsiders to be stunned and surprised when it happens

Barry Sherman was a competitive controlling man, who has written things which provide insights into his view on the meaning of life. There's nothing about a murder/suicide scenario that seems impossible or even improbable when all this is taken into account.

The cops put murder/suicide out there because that's what they initially believed and may well still believe.

But again "the police" didn't put it out there. LE has only ever stated the deaths were suspicious and they were investigating every angle. Later they released COD. An unknown source claimed that LE was investigating as a murder-suicide but LE never made a statement confirming this.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[Hazel]

Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

This is horrible, poor Honey!
It's like adding insult to injury.

How long was HS left there on that tile, face down and bleeding?
This means the perp(s) were there for quite some time. Perhaps while "they" went upstairs looking for the belts?

I'm wondering if "they" put the belt around her neck while she was lying there. Was she unconscious at the time?

And then the perp(s) sat her on her own blood, on that same tile where she had been bleeding on to hang her and kill her? That's awful! :tears:

I feel so bad for the children.

 

[Peace777]

If your net worth is in the multi Billion range, do you even carry life insurance? Certainly don't need it the way John/Jane Doe would do.

I think he would have life insurance just as a "just in case" maybe?. Wasn't his company Apotex being sued by different companies and the cousins?, so what if the lawsuits took a big chunk of his net worth if he lost on the lawsuits? A lot of his money could have been tied up in different businesses (1 was the brewery (Steelback) and a lot was lost in that business venture I read somewhere. He was suing the former owner for over $100M)) also he made donations to places so how much of his net worth was "real $" ? I don't know how the "rich/billionaires" do things.

 

[rhenium]

I don't know how not being able to tell if their arms were in front or behind, makes the wrist markings "pinch of salt" worthy. If you take this information with a pinch of salt because it hasn't been confirmed by LE, I get that. But how the arms were positioned likely won't be signified by the markings on their wrists.

This might be really stupid - and I haven’t given this a try - but I believe one way to do it is to fold a longer piece of rope in two and tie the cut ends to something like a door knob. Loop the other end around your wrist possibly several times, then tighten the rope by pulling away from the knob or lowering your body down the floor. Even easier if the door knob is near stairs going down. Basically, you would be using your body weight to create the ligature mark. You would stay in that position until the marks are deep enough. Both applying the force to tighten the ligature and removing the ligature would be within your power. Easily self-inflicted. I don’t understand why wrist marks on BS would be a proof of his innocence.

Grey-St, I meant to post this as a reply to your post #972.

 

[spanishshara]

I wonder what evidence/DNA they have. We haven't really heard much about that from both the police and the family/private investigator. That's normal to a certain extent but I find it interesting there's little about looking for suspects. I'm aware that sometimes saying very little is best so suspects can't find out much via the media but it's still something I am wondering about. Whatever did happen, it seems that whoever did it seemed very professional.

 

[kay74]

I think he would have life insurance just as a "just in case" maybe?. Wasn't his company Apotex being sued by different companies and the cousins?, so what if the lawsuits took a big chunk of his net worth if he lost on the lawsuits? A lot of his money could have been tied up in different businesses (1 was the brewery (Steelback) and a lot was lost in that business venture I read somewhere. He was suing the former owner for over $100M)) also he made donations to places so how much of his net worth was "real $" ? I don't know how the "rich/billionaires" do things.

I'm guessing this brewery lawsuit is more to add to the list of whodunit. I can't see this being a professional hit as much as an anger killing because of the way they were left. I have my thoughts of who did this but I could be 100% wrong.

 

[Peace777]

I'm wondering about neighbor's video surveillance cams in and around that area. Not just their street but cams on other nearby streets as well. Someone could have walked up to the home but been parked on another street but close enough to walk. Remember LE were looking in sewers up and down the street. Do they know someone had walked away from the home at some point? Just wondering...