Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Crosby87]

I wasn’t clear enough. I think he did it. I also think he took a low life friend with him based on a promise for jewelry, drugs or something.

How long did it take the Shermans to travel from Apotex to their residence? In the Fifth Estate episode, they said Honey left Apotex on Wednesday evening at 6 pm and Barry at 8:45 pm.

Winter worked until 6 pm on Wednesday, then he attended a 12-step meeting at Narcotics Anonymous.

If the Sherman's were murdered Wednesday evening between 6:30 - 9:30 pm, I doubt KW's committed the crime. JW said his alibi is airtight.

""Winter said that Wednesday night, he attended the 12-step program. He said he then went home and watched on episode of the Peaky Blinders television show on Netflix, and went to bed. “I probably spoke to my girlfriend long distance.”"

"Absolutely I could not go AWOL (at work) because we are in regular contact through text, email or sometimes phone calls. There’s no way between six in the morning on Thursday and six in the evening on Thursday, I’ve got a full alibi . . . with many different trades seeing me in and out of houses.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

 

[BUF]

The Fifth Estate said that the drive from the Sherman house to Apotex was about 20 minutes.

 

[kay74]

Doesn’t attachment disorder happen in the first few months of life?

Huh? And then you think the person is "fine" the rest of their life. Yikes. It goes on their WHOLE life.

 

[human]

Yes, that's common as well. Having physically or mentally ill primary caregivers. Aso, even if attachment is securely formed, it can be disrupted when death, abandonment, adoption or fostering occurs.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_disorder

(Snipped)
In the clinical sense, a disorder is a condition requiring treatment as opposed to risk factors for subsequent disorders.[12] There is a lack of consensus about the precise meaning of the term 'attachment disorder' although there is general agreement that such disorders only arise following early adverse caregiving experiences. Reactive attachment disorder indicates the absence of either or both the main aspects of proximity seeking to an identified attachment figure. This can occur either in institutions, or with repeated changes of caregiver, or from extremely neglectful primary caregivers who show persistent disregard for the child's basic attachment needs after the age of 6 months. Current official classifications of RAD under DSM-IV-TR and ICD-10 are largely based on this understanding of the nature of attachment.

And (snipped)

Attachment disorder is a broad term intended to describe disorders of mood, behavior, and social relationships arising from a failure to form normal attachments to primary care giving figures in early childhood. Such a failure would result from unusual early experiences of neglect, abuse, abrupt separation from caregivers between 6 months and three years of age, frequent change or excessive numbers of caregivers, or lack of caregiver responsiveness to child communicative efforts resulting in a lack of basic trust.[1] A problematic history of social relationships occurring after about age three may be distressing to a child, but does not result in attachment disorder.

 

[Crosby87]

I wouldn't doubt it :dunno:.

I think so but I don't suppose KW would say that publicly.

KW got his wish without having to do it himself which I suppose he is grateful for.

 

[human]

Huh? And then you think the person is "fine" the rest of their life. Yikes. It goes on their WHOLE life.

We have been discussing attachment as the cause of issues. The adoptive parents have been cast as the evil ones.

I suggest that perhaps it was the illness of the mother that caused attachment issues if indeed it is an attachment issue at all.

 

[Doghairrules]

Because someone apparently murdered Barry Sherman, does KW believe the justice he wanted has been served?

I would guess not, based on his apparent determination to paint Barry as a killer. Moo

 

[musicaljoke]

How long did it take the Shermans to travel from Apotex to their residence? In the Fifth Estate episode, they said Honey left Apotex on Wednesday evening at 6 pm and Barry at 8:45 pm.

Winter worked until 6 pm on Wednesday, then he attended a 12-step meeting at Narcotics Anonymous.

If the Sherman's were murdered Wednesday evening between 6:30 - 9:30 pm, I doubt KW's committed the crime. JW said his alibi is airtight.

""Winter said that Wednesday night, he attended the 12-step program. He said he then went home and watched on episode of the Peaky Blinders television show on Netflix, and went to bed. “I probably spoke to my girlfriend long distance.”"

"Absolutely I could not go AWOL (at work) because we are in regular contact through text, email or sometimes phone calls. There’s no way between six in the morning on Thursday and six in the evening on Thursday, I’ve got a full alibi . . . with many different trades seeing me in and out of houses.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

Do you think he seemed pretty sure of where he was on Dec 15th and 16th? It seemed to me that he mentioned the Narcotics Anonymous meeting was either Wed or Thurs.

He also said, "Very easy for me to have left work at any time because I'm not on the clock,” he told the CBC. “I could easily have driven over to [the Sherman home] and did the deed.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

I only watched the show once, so I might have misheard whether or not he was solid about which night he went to Narcotics Anonymous. Their bodies were found on the evening of Friday Dec 17th.

Narcotics Anonymous Meeting dates and times.
http://www.orscna.org/english/area_meetings.php?id=1

 

[clearskies1]

We can debate forever whether KW had good reason to hate BS and HS. It's an interesting subject but the question that really matters is: was he responsible for their deaths? JMO.

 

[kiwi50]

Short answer is no, because nobody used his severed head as a bowling ball in the parking lot.

That was a chilling moment. Bet his lawyer was thinking “ I can’t believe you just said that”
Even having him as a client must be scarey.

 

[AllyJane]

The Fifth Estate said that the drive from the Sherman house to Apotex was about 20 minutes.

If it is from the Apotex location in the west end near the 407, that time to travel to Bayview/401 is unlikely. Especially since HS would be leaving at rush hour and BS is leaving when traffic is much clearer.

Just curious if the leak saying that both BS and HS were found with their coats were true as it may shed light on soon HS was killed after coming home.

 

[kay74]

We can debate forever whether KW had good reason to hate BS and HS. It's an interesting subject but the question that really matters is: was he responsible for their deaths? JMO.

I don't believe for one second he is, not the way he's sprouting his mouth off. He's just very happy to be able to talk about how BS and Honey treated him. It's a relief for him.

 

[JDG]

If it is from the Apotex location in the west end near the 407, that time to travel to Bayview/401 is unlikely. Especially since HS would be leaving at rush hour and BS is leaving when traffic is much clearer.

Just curious if the leak saying that both BS and HS were found with their coats were true as it may shed light on soon HS was killed after coming home.

Google map says 20 minutes. 401 is always busy but if no problems, its about right IMO

 

[human]

How do I know? The way they turned out. Ask any psychologist or any psychiatrist.

I posted the info on attachment disorder which may have happened because the mother was ill and could not provide parenting.

The adoptive parents may have been just fine.

 

[kay74]

If it is from the Apotex location in the west end near the 407, that time to travel to Bayview/401 is unlikely. Especially since HS would be leaving at rush hour and BS is leaving when traffic is much clearer.

Just curious if the leak saying that both BS and HS were found with their coats were true as it may shed light on soon HS was killed after coming home.

It looks like each of them were ambushed as they came in the house. I'm assuming they don't have their help there in the evening?

 

[human]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201304/wound-collectors

Wound collecting is the conscious and systematic collection and preservation of transgressions, violations, social wrongs, grievances, injustice, unfair treatment, or slights of self and others, for the purpose of nourishing, fortifying, or justifying a malignant ideology, furthering hatred, satisfying a pathology, or for exacting revenge.

What kind of people meet this criteria?

Anyone who, because of a personality disorder or character traits (e.g., insecurities, paranoia, fear, xenophobia, or due to emotional instability), inflexibly seeks to collect wounds and slights for a purpose that usually has negative social consequences or is self serving. This can be anyone from a spouse, to a terrorist, to a mass killer.

Give us examples of wound collectors we might recognize?

First let me say that most wound collectors we won’t recognize because most of us experience them on personal level and they are generally not well known to the public. However, we have all run into someone who habitually brings up grievances, be they slight and accidental, and we know how irritating these individuals can be. In a larger sense we have all been exposed to wound collectors on a national or international level, we just weren’t aware. Here are some:

 

[kiwi50]

Loving parents can turn out 'bad' kids and terrible parents can turn out 'good' kids.

Its a combination of nature/nurture and individual reaction to stressors, resilience etc.

Totally agree, we could debate the nature/nurture question forever. That was my first Psychology assignment many moons ago.

 

[ldlager]

The Fifth Estate said that the drive from the Sherman house to Apotex was about 20 minutes.

At 6pm on a wed night it would be more like 30-40 mins

 

[ldlager]

Do you think he seemed pretty sure of where he was on Dec 15th and 16th? It seemed to me that he mentioned the Narcotics Anonymous meeting was either Wed or Thurs.

He also said, "Very easy for me to have left work at any time because I'm not on the clock,” he told the CBC. “I could easily have driven over to [the Sherman home] and did the deed.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

I only watched the show once, so I might have misheard whether or not he was solid about which night he went to Narcotics Anonymous. Their bodies were found on the evening of Friday Dec 17th.

Narcotics Anonymous Meeting dates and times.
http://www.orscna.org/english/area_meetings.php?id=1

No, the bodies were found around noon on the Friday.

 

[Grey-St]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_disorder

(Snipped)
In the clinical sense, a disorder is a condition requiring treatment as opposed to risk factors for subsequent disorders.[12] There is a lack of consensus about the precise meaning of the term 'attachment disorder' although there is general agreement that such disorders only arise following early adverse caregiving experiences. Reactive attachment disorder indicates the absence of either or both the main aspects of proximity seeking to an identified attachment figure. This can occur either in institutions, or with repeated changes of caregiver, or from extremely neglectful primary caregivers who show persistent disregard for the child's basic attachment needs after the age of 6 months. Current official classifications of RAD under DSM-IV-TR and ICD-10 are largely based on this understanding of the nature of attachment.

And (snipped)

Attachment disorder is a broad term intended to describe disorders of mood, behavior, and social relationships arising from a failure to form normal attachments to primary care giving figures in early childhood. Such a failure would result from unusual early experiences of neglect, abuse, abrupt separation from caregivers between 6 months and three years of age, frequent change or excessive numbers of caregivers, or lack of caregiver responsiveness to child communicative efforts resulting in a lack of basic trust.[1] A problematic history of social relationships occurring after about age three may be distressing to a child, but does not result in attachment disorder.

Sure, I agree with mostly all of this. I'm not saying that KW absolutely has a clinical attachment disorder, I'm not his psychiatrist. But we can see how much of what he went through is articulated in the above. Many folks actively working in the field today believe attachment disorders and disruption of attachment can occur beyond the age of 3. I'm also of the belief that any mental health disorder occurs on a spectrum.