CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I agree and except for their stated heights the NW looks like a few main characters in this story.

KD pointed out that FD’A and KW are both around 6’ tall. He described AG as ‘short’. But the police said they worked exhaustively in order to identify the WM. It doesn’t seem to be anyone obvious, imo.
I agree as well. I believe BS to be around 6 ft according to the pic I posted above.
If the NW was anyone obvious one of us would be rich by now and we would have possibly solved this case. I am sure the police have ruled out everyone we have thought about. I think this is why they have mentioned maybe the job was hired out? If the murder was done by a hit man we would have no clue who this NW is. On the flip side maybe the NW has nothing to do with the murders and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's sending everyone on a wild goose chase. JMO
 
Your quote:
“Also, the night walker's description isn't far off from a description of Barry. He was between 5'6" and 5'9" and was either wasting a bulky coat or was a bit overweight so who's to say it wasn't him.”

Respectfully, I’m not understanding. You think the WM looks like BS and could be him. How do you think that’s possible? (And do you have a link to where his height is stated? He looked taller than 5’9”, imo.) I hope I don’t sound like I’m hounding you, I’m just trying to understand your viewpoint. The WM is the only person LE have identified as being caught on cctv.

The camera in the pool area had never been connected, according to KD, so one of many reasons KW’s story doesn’t make sense, imo.
That was my point (I think, now I'M confused haha). KW said BS was on this camera and I'm saying if there was a camera, it may have been the night walker as he may have had a resemblance to Barry as far as height or weight go.

FWIW, I don't believe any video exists and I think Barry was killed very soon upon entering the house.
 
No, you’re right about the NW’s height. I know LE stated the height range (approximately 5’6”-5’9”) I meant BS’s height, I’ve never read how tall he was. I may be misunderstanding this but MF seems to be saying BS was similar in height to the WM suspect and it could be him.

ETA: other people have said the WM looked like BS, but they didn’t explain how that’s possible
I guess BS could have killed HS then gone for a walk then returned to the house and committed suicide? Like you I am not sure what is being said here by comparing the two.
 
John Tory is 6" according to this article. If they are standing on level ground BS appears to be close to the same height. This is the best I could find.
 
He has an agenda to defame Barry and Honey as he believes he was screwed over. I disagree as the company he would have been allowed to buy into was sold long before he was an adult, MOO. There has never been any word about any kind of working camera in the pool area so either the person at The Fifth Estate got it wrong or she's right and the police are holding that info back.

Also, the night walker's description isn't far off from a description of Barry. He was between 5'6" and 5'9" and was either wasting a bulky coat or was a bit overweight so who's to say it wasn't him.
I don’t think there is any chance Barry killed himself. KD reports that the angle of hanging and position of belt would never have killed him. Plus his glasses and body not at all askew. No way it was suicide. MOO.
 
As is customary/required: This is speculation/IMO/no one has been arrested/everyone assumed innocent/etc.

Stages of Escalation:

Patterns of escalation in desperation can occur when individuals feel increasingly driven to fulfill their desires or achieve their goals. As time passes and their efforts remain unfulfilled, the intensity of their desperation tends to grow, leading to a series of escalating behaviors and actions. These patterns can vary depending on the specific situation and the individual involved, but they often follow a similar trajectory.

Frustration and Initial Attempts:

The initial stage of desperation is characterized by feelings of frustration and discontentment. The individual recognizes their unmet needs or desires and starts making initial attempts to fulfill them. These attempts may be relatively mild or subtle, such as seeking help, making requests, or trying to find alternative solutions.

Increased Intensity and Persistence:

As their initial attempts fail to yield the desired outcome, desperation intensifies. The individual becomes more persistent in their pursuit, often investing more time, energy, and resources into their efforts. They may display heightened determination, repeatedly approaching others, or exploring different strategies to achieve their goal.

Heightened Emotional Response:

With time, the emotional response to unmet desires intensifies. The individual experiences heightened frustration, anxiety, or even anger due to the prolonged unfulfillment of their needs. This emotional turmoil can further fuel their desperation, driving them to push harder and take more significant risks to get what they want.

Escalation of Tactics:

Desperation can lead individuals to escalate their tactics in pursuit of their goals. They may resort to more assertive or aggressive behavior, breaking social norms or ethical boundaries. This escalation could involve manipulation, deception, coercion, or even illegal actions as they become increasingly focused on achieving their desired outcome.

Heightened Risk-Taking:

As desperation continues to grow, individuals may become willing to take greater risks to accomplish their goals. They may engage in high-stakes actions, disregarding potential consequences or negative repercussions. The fear of failure or the belief that their desperation justifies any means necessary can lead them to cross boundaries they wouldn't have considered before.

Extreme Measures:

In some cases, escalating desperation can drive individuals to extreme measures. These may include acts of desperation such as self-harm, threats, or even violence towards others. Desperation can cloud judgment and lead individuals to believe that extreme actions are the only way to achieve their desired outcome.

It is important to note that escalation in desperation does not always lead to the desired outcome. Instead, it can create a cycle of unfulfilled expectations and increasing desperation, potentially leading to further emotional distress or negative consequences.

Understanding and addressing patterns of escalation in desperation is crucial to prevent potential harm to oneself or others. It is essential to seek support from trusted individuals, such as friends, family, or professionals, who can provide guidance, perspective, and alternative solutions to navigate through challenging situations.

Another thing to keep in mind is KDs work on JS over time.

1. 2011: JS states he is becoming slowly suicidal over financial concerns related to BS and FD.

2. 2015: JS in an email to BS around business talks: "We have many things to discuss. But Frank will have to be one of them. My genuine goal is to understand this situation and then move on to more important matters like sucession and whether Adam and I can play some role in that."

3. 2015: According to KD, the email in 2 was right before he tries to declare BS incompentent via email to his sisters who fought back firecly against this idea.

4. JS loses some funding for a while before BS relents some time later.

5. 2017: BS aggressively pursues $50-60 million in loans for JS. This would force JS/AP to retain mortages and actual debt, something that has never happened. JS gives KD emails, tells him he will never mislead him. KD subsequently obtains emails from another source highlighting the tension between JS and BS over AP being involved 2 weeks before BS asks for the money. JK acts as a source telling KD how BS was no fan of AP. KD uncovers some of the email chain. JS and AP ask BS for $6 million for Green Storage after he had repeatedly demanded the $50-60 million. BS replies to both JS and AP asking for $6 million but BS opens email to AP. This would be the last email: "Adam, as discussed, you have to take steps immediately to obtain mortages, what will you do and when?" The intensity of BS requests are increasing over time. The fact he doesn't even comment on the $6 million ask is telling beyond words here. JS reveals to KD that BS spoke of a 2 year hold on deposits to JS. He downplays this and minimizes it as well as the other factors. According to KD JS only gets upset over the Tesla and airline ticket comments in his book, not any of the other content of the discussion.

6. 2017: Evidence surfaces suggesting that both BS and HS were in contact with lawyers, including DH, who specialize in estate and succession planning. DH has a publicly available interview where he strongly suggests planning in advance, and that a boiler plate will, or split between the kids, is not nearly enough. DH places a call to BS at 9:01 pm on 2017.12.13, the night of the murders. BS had planned to go home early that night. HS had told a close friend in late Nov she had come from updating her will and was making amendments. Speculation surfaces suggesting that HS was perhaps about to receive a large payout in a deal she had with BS. This would overlap with the months leading up to changes to their estate planning.

***KD concedes publicly he has thought a lot about JS strange comments over time. In an interview with a Toronto journalist, KD promoting the podcast says it beefs up the details from the book. He openly states he’s leading the audience in a direction and wants them to wander in that direction. KD subsequently publicly states and confirms he has a theory and a “belief” of “who did it”. The Crave documentary explicitly floats JS being involved as per the quote in the trailer from KD. They obviously are consciously pushing the theory the family are involved. It isn’t a salacious trailer of KW screaming and going off the rails. That matters.

Given the likelihood of overlap between the KD “theory” and the TPS “theory” it’s curious there isn’t more explicit conversation around what KD is actually reporting. For legal and journalistic ethics reasons he cannot publicly state his theory or who he thinks “did it”. He can however lead the audience in that direction. He isn’t going to focus on anything other than his own prized theory as he ends the podcast. I ask again, what story does KD tell? What is it, in its essence, he’s trying to convey?

There is a seduction at play here to think this was solely for money. Yea, it was financially motivated. But to cross into this sort of thing, it goes beyond money. It comes down to identity. Someone’s identity was on the chopping block, given how closely they tethered their identity to power, control, wealth, and the pursuit of these things as they saw it. Identity was what was actually threatened and in need of protection. This was about survival.



P.S.: is David Wallace’s podcast on “Blackballed” delusion?

P.P.S.: one would be remiss if the following wasn't mentioned - the best version of the BP press conference is CityNews on Youtube. There you get to hear and see the reporters. And, more importantly, the reactions.



"Here's Johnny!"
Can you clarify what you mean by identity being on the chopping block. I’m intrigued but am not sure what you mean.
 
No cigar, at a glance, the NW could vaguely pass as BS, not that it is him, but maybe the perp purposely tried to look similar to BS? speculation.
View attachment 427290

(The closest pic i could find where BS is wearing a winter coat)
View attachment 427291
I'm noticing BS' right foot, looking like a (slight?) sicklefoot or similar. His left foot doesn't look like that. If it isn't a wrong impression and there was something with his right foot, he maybe had a special looking gait (right foot "kicking up" more than the left foot)?? Idk; only guessing. - The idea, NW could have been BS, is interesting at least .....
 
Both Brandon and Tom wanted to know:
1. How l knew so much.
2. The name of the retired homicide detective who spoke about the M/S.
3. And more, including the computerized alarm system which monitored all windows and doors at 50. That Honey was dead/killed somewhere else in the house.. her body moved to the basement pool and hung. She was dead 6-9 hours before Barry. Nobody came/left the house except Honey and Barry.
4. I was questioned by the TPS 5 months after Dec 15th....and NEVER questioned as a suspect! Only mission: find out what l know.
When l left 31 division at 1:00am., the last thing l said to Price as he gave me back my iPhone,”do the right thing. Go back to your original theory of murder/suicide and tell the good people of Toronto the truth”.
Which are "the good people" of Toronto, who would have no possible prestige-problem with having harbored a murderer in their ranks? The people, who are neither billionaires nore millionaires?
 
Which are "the good people" of Toronto, who would have no possible prestige-problem with having harbored a murderer in their ranks? The people, who are neither billionaires nore millionaires?
How does he know he wasn't interviewed as a suspect? Cops would withhold something like that if it benefited them.
 
have they even did a dna exclusion thing ? havent they been accused of not even lifting enough prints from the house ? after all they stuck to the suicide thing long enough ..meaning we can forget dna evidence in this case
also for me it seems a crime commited by more than one person..he had to control two ppl ..idk..its all possible but i am not very sold on the walking male...he could be homeless or anything
Re: Walking Male, yes he could be anybody, but he also could be involved in the Shermans' deaths.
The fact you are not sold on his involvement is based on what?

I doubt he is homeless, as he walks faster than most homeless I have seen, he is dressed more appropriately for the weather than most homeless people, and he is not carrying anything in his arms or a buggy.

Even if you assume the TPS is incompetent, the Private Investigators hired by the family, did not discover any evidence that has lead to an arrest.

Maybe the assailants took precautions and were very good, leaving no or minimal evidence at the crime scene.
 
I hope this finds you well!

-----
View attachment 426634View attachment 426635View attachment 426636View attachment 426637
----------

KD talks about the $580M judgement. He says BK told him about it but that Barry had said it was really a $1B judgement. Question for the astute amount of you: What does $500M + $500M equal? Who was in line for $500M? Maybe a deal, "One more time Barry, then we are done." Did he bis loss usher in more control for HS?



"There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There's no knowing where we're rowing
Or which way the river's flowing
Is it raining, is it snowing?"
AEE586B0-7D78-4DEA-982F-5EE73D6499B8.jpeg
(Screenshot of image in attached post.)

I noticed something because of this post and the screenshot of the suspect. See how dark his image is and it’s brighter across the street? He’s walking on the north side of Bannatyne walking south-east. The street lights on Bannatyne are on the south side.
060DFD31-C527-484D-99F3-61951B49D203.png



KD believes he went through the Shermans’ backyard neighbour’s property and they also do not have streetlights on their side. There are two neighbours behind the Shermans’ backyard that adjoin the property. The street light is far from the middle of both properties and is on the other side of the street.

9EFA027A-8A38-48D4-B032-66F6B4274CA5.jpeg

Go to 48 Old Colony (formerly 50), the street light is right in front of the former Sherman home.
ADE51436-867A-4EE7-80DC-3ADF92D2FE78.png


Screenshots from Streetlight Map - Toronto Hydro

So he knew the neighbourhood well enough to avoid the lights, imo. And the space between the properties in the back of the Shermans’ home had a wide gap because both properties adjoined the Shermans’.

ETA: notice the numbering on the Forest Heights & Old Colony homes. Most of them are double lots, but the numbers are sometimes not in a predictable order. If someone on Forest Heights or Old Colony made that 911 call that the officers responded to on Thursday, they may have guessed the wrong street number because of the unpredictable pattern, imo. (IMO I think it’s possible the call was related to the WM tripping off an alarm notification.)
 
Last edited:
I don’t think there is any chance Barry killed himself. KD reports that the angle of hanging and position of belt would never have killed him. Plus his glasses and body not at all askew. No way it was suicide. MOO.
Keep in mind that BS was an expert in pharmacology which would be useful in such a situation - JMO.
 
Off-topic, but related to this case. We know Dotr is great. They’re like Switzerland because of their neutrality and how precise they are with information. Also if you need to find a needle in a haystack, Dotr is who you call.

They just helped crack an off-beat case that seemed futile, imo.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
87
Guests online
1,852
Total visitors
1,939

Forum statistics

Threads
605,417
Messages
18,186,779
Members
233,355
Latest member
frankiterranova
Back
Top