Canada - Connor, 6, & Noah Barthe, 4, killed by python, Campbellton, NB, 5 Aug 2013

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Jury hears Jean-Claude Savoie's panicked 911 call about python deaths

The jury at Jean-Claude Savoie's criminal negligence trial in the python deaths of Connor and Noah Barthe three years ago heard his panicked 911 call on Tuesday.


"Two kids are dead," Savoie told the dispatcher.


"A python got out and killed the two kids."


"A python?" asked the dispatcher.


Savoie cut the dispatcher off, saying the snake was still loose and he had to catch it; there was another child still in the building.


He asked them to send someone to help, then walked away from the phone.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/testimony-begins-python-savoie-1.3830530
 
python_0.jpg


The African rock python from the Reptile Ocean pet store where Savoie had his apartment. Savoie is charged with criminal negligence causing death after two young brothers, Connor and Noah Barthe, were asphyxiated by the snake in August 2013. (CP/HO-Court of Queen's Bench of New Brunswick)

CAMPBELLTON, N.B. — A 45-kilogram python lunged, snapped its jaws, and made “growling noises” when it was forced back into its pen after killing two sleeping boys, an RCMP officer told a New Brunswick jury Tuesday.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada...st_read&most_read=1411415&most_read_ref=/news
 
python_0.jpg


The African rock python from the Reptile Ocean pet store where Savoie had his apartment. Savoie is charged with criminal negligence causing death after two young brothers, Connor and Noah Barthe, were asphyxiated by the snake in August 2013. (CP/HO-Court of Queen's Bench of New Brunswick)

CAMPBELLTON, N.B. — A 45-kilogram python lunged, snapped its jaws, and made “growling noises” when it was forced back into its pen after killing two sleeping boys, an RCMP officer told a New Brunswick jury Tuesday.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada...st_read&most_read=1411415&most_read_ref=/news

Thank you for the update I wondered when the trial would start. It's just as horrific as the day I heard about this. It's a tragedy for all concerned what a nightmare. Does he still run a reptile store?
 
National Post ‏@nationalpost 12m12 minutes ago
‘It’s a *advertiser censored****** nightmare but it’s true’: Mother of two boys killed by falling python takes the stand http://natpo.st/2fExzYU
 
I am following this case closely. I had/have such a hard time believing this.
 
I had a hard time too but an employee for the zoo will testify that he told Savoie to fix the vent cover. It never got fixed. When the snake was placed back into the enclosure, the snake stood up almost 2 meters straight up to go to the same vent again and this was witnessed by police at the scene. In the link I posted yesterday. Also the boys were covered in snake skin and one had bites all over his body. The other one was blue from asphyxiation.
 
I guess I just cant understand how a heavy snake wouldn't wake up at least one of the boys... and after one bite. IDK Its so sad. Trying to keep an open mind as this trial goes along. :)
 
I wonder if the snake had both boys coiled up at the same time? One near the head and another further down? The photo of the snake is crazy. It was so huge.
 
Those poor little ones !
What a gruesome death.

That photo of the snake makes my hair stand up. how long is it ?

Sad also as I've found snakes interesting--- in a ZOO or properly confined !!
There's photos on CL of people selling their pets where they are only confined in a hallway by a baby gate. (It was last year, a huge (to my untrained eye) Burmese Python.)
The owner said she was tame and had never lunged.....
No, thank you !
 
I guess I just cant understand how a heavy snake wouldn't wake up at least one of the boys... and after one bite. IDK Its so sad. Trying to keep an open mind as this trial goes along. :)

A Crown expert witness, Bob Johnson, who was Curator of Reptiles at the Toronto Zoo for several decades, testified today and shed light on several of these points. I've been following the case with some interest, because it's quite unusual for a captive-raised snake to be so aggressive, and it would not normally perceive humans as prey in any case.

I brightened to see that Johnson was a witness here as I have had the pleasure of meeting and discussing things reptile with him at a number of zoo conservation initiatives. He's a knowledgeable and approachable guy. I've kept a number of constrictor snakes and other reptiles (no dangerous ones, though) so saw this case both as a terrible tragedy but also as something of a mystery.

Today's testimony shed light on several facets. To answer your point -- it is quite likely that the snake coiled around both boys at the same time, compressing them with significant force (probably rendering them unconscious immediately), and only biting them as a result of any movements they made. So if they woke up, it would probably have been too late to scream or get away, the snake already had a firm grip.

What attracted the snake, the expert said, was likely the smell of farm animals from the petting zoo they had visited only hours before. This would have energized the snake. Johnson was asked to evaluate the enclosure for the snake - he said it was large enough, but its complete sterility - nothing whatever in it - would have made the snake more aggressive, as it had nowhere to meet its needs for hiding, climbing, rubbing against things. Rocks, branches and mulch should have been provided. Being so exposed would have made the snake much more anxious and fearful which translates into aggression. Johnson said the evidence showed this snake was extremely aggressive towards humans (I inferred this could have been exaggerated by the snake's inadequate care and rough treatment).

Several witnesses testified that they were certain the snake could not get through the vent because it was too big to get through. Johnson was asked for his opinion; he said all openings to a snake enclosure should be secured, but since it was in the agreed statement of facts that the snake HAD escaped through the vent, his opinion was superfluous. He did say there was no fixed rule for determining whether a snake could fit through any given opening, there are too many variables. He discussed how a snake enclosure should ideally be built, and the cost of doing it properly (ranging from 20 to 100 grand)

Defense counsel pointed out that other witnesses had agreed with Savoie that the snake could not get through the vent, and the question for the jury would be, did his failure to secure the vent (when he believed it to be escape proof) constitute criminal negligence? It is not criminal negligence to be wrong. I expect the judge will counsel the jury on this point.

Another witness, admitted as an expert in snake physiology (but not behaviour) is testifying now. He will continue tomorrow. Then it's expected to go to the jury on Wednesday, IIRC.
 
CP24 ‏@CP24 3m3 minutes ago
BREAKING: A jury has found the owner of a python not guilty of criminal negligence causing death in the deaths of two New Brunswick boys.
 
When I read, earlier on, the judge's explanation of the three essential elements that each had to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt for a verdict of guilty of criminal negligence, I was reasonably certain that, based on the evidence presented(so far as I could ascertain - the tweets and news summaries were fairly sparse and lacking in much detail), the jury would not convict.

Was Savoie responsible for the death of the boys? Yes, obviously. But was it a criminal responsibility? That was more difficult to ascertain. In order to show criminal negligence, a person must show "wanton and reckless" disregard for the safety of the victims, and have failed to take the precautions that "a reasonable person" (the mythical "everyman") would take.

This is where the evidence for the Crown broke down. Both the Crown and defense called reptile experts, both of whom agreed, that in their opinion, a snake that size would have been unable to get through the vent in question. They knew. of course, that the snake had done this, but both expressed incredulity and amazement. And these were reptile experts with decades of handling large and dangerous snakes!

Savoie, while obviously a reptile fancier, was no expert; no evidence suggested he had any special training or schooling in reptile care or behaviour. It would not be logical to assume he would be a better judge of whether a snake could escape in a certain circumstance than experts in the field. The experts did say, that as a matter of course, they would secure any openings that were in a snake's enclosure. But, they were experts - not ordinary citizens. It's what an ordinary person would think and do that is the standard the law holds up as the bar to meet.

Other testimony, including that of the boys' mother, testified to Savoie's care and concern for he boys, his being a good friend and parent, and so on. Several witnesses said that Savoie did not feel the vent posed any threat because the snake was much too large to get through it.

As the defense said, Savoie was wrong in this threat assessment. But being wrong is not necessarily a crime.

One thing that did not get addressed in the trial (but IMO should have been), was the responsibility of the federal wildlife service that handed over the snake to Savoie to care for, without any follow-through or provision of any assistance/advice/resources in proper care and management of this dangerous species. They dumped the snake on him, and being a snake lover, he kept it for 11 years with no incidents, though as expert witness Johnson testified, its habitat was inadequate for the snake's welfare. Even animal rescue services around here investigate potential owners of dogs or cats, do a home visit, and - most important - follow up afterwards to make sure the placement is working out. The feds did none of this. Proper management could have obviated this tragedy, and IMO the CWS bears some of the moral (albeit not legal) responsibility.

There was apparently some very questionable behaviour on the part of the RCMP that was under publication ban until now. I will wait until I hear more details before commenting, but it sounds like the sort of thing which brings law enforcement into disrepute and I don't like to see that happening.

Here's one news report on the acquittal. Further details will no doubt come out over time.

http://www.cp24.com/news/jury-finds...-n-b-boys-1.3152459?google_editors_picks=true
 
Thanks Palisadesk, you did an awesome job covering this story. :cheers:
 
When I read, earlier on, the judge's explanation of the three essential elements that each had to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt for a verdict of guilty of criminal negligence, I was reasonably certain that, based on the evidence presented(so far as I could ascertain - the tweets and news summaries were fairly sparse and lacking in much detail), the jury would not convict.

Was Savoie responsible for the death of the boys? Yes, obviously. But was it a criminal responsibility? That was more difficult to ascertain. In order to show criminal negligence, a person must show "wanton and reckless" disregard for the safety of the victims, and have failed to take the precautions that "a reasonable person" (the mythical "everyman") would take.

This is where the evidence for the Crown broke down. Both the Crown and defense called reptile experts, both of whom agreed, that in their opinion, a snake that size would have been unable to get through the vent in question. They knew. of course, that the snake had done this, but both expressed incredulity and amazement. And these were reptile experts with decades of handling large and dangerous snakes!

Savoie, while obviously a reptile fancier, was no expert; no evidence suggested he had any special training or schooling in reptile care or behaviour. It would not be logical to assume he would be a better judge of whether a snake could escape in a certain circumstance than experts in the field. The experts did say, that as a matter of course, they would secure any openings that were in a snake's enclosure. But, they were experts - not ordinary citizens. It's what an ordinary person would think and do that is the standard the law holds up as the bar to meet.

Other testimony, including that of the boys' mother, testified to Savoie's care and concern for he boys, his being a good friend and parent, and so on. Several witnesses said that Savoie did not feel the vent posed any threat because the snake was much too large to get through it.

As the defense said, Savoie was wrong in this threat assessment. But being wrong is not necessarily a crime.

One thing that did not get addressed in the trial (but IMO should have been), was the responsibility of the federal wildlife service that handed over the snake to Savoie to care for, without any follow-through or provision of any assistance/advice/resources in proper care and management of this dangerous species. They dumped the snake on him, and being a snake lover, he kept it for 11 years with no incidents, though as expert witness Johnson testified, its habitat was inadequate for the snake's welfare. Even animal rescue services around here investigate potential owners of dogs or cats, do a home visit, and - most important - follow up afterwards to make sure the placement is working out. The feds did none of this. Proper management could have obviated this tragedy, and IMO the CWS bears some of the moral (albeit not legal) responsibility.

There was apparently some very questionable behaviour on the part of the RCMP that was under publication ban until now. I will wait until I hear more details before commenting, but it sounds like the sort of thing which brings law enforcement into disrepute and I don't like to see that happening.

Here's one news report on the acquittal. Further details will no doubt come out over time.

http://www.cp24.com/news/jury-finds...-n-b-boys-1.3152459?google_editors_picks=true

:goodpost:
Excellent report and observations Paladesk. Thank you.:goodpost:
 

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